[gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working Group call held earlier today

Tue Apr 11 11:10:51 UTC 2017

+1 to Georges’ comment from me too. I agree that edge use cases and hypotheticals should not drive overhaul.

-Brian

Brian Scarpelli
Senior Policy Counsel
517-507-1446<tel:517-507-1446> | bscarpelli at actonline.org<mailto:bscarpelli at actonline.org>
ACT | The App Association

From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of J. Scott Evans via gnso-rpm-wg
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 2:45 AM
To: Nahitchevansky, Georges <ghn at kilpatricktownsend.com>
Cc: gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org
Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working Group call held earlier today

++1

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 10, 2017, at 9:38 PM, Nahitchevansky, Georges <ghn at kilpatricktownsend.com<mailto:ghn at kilpatricktownsend.com>> wrote:
The‎ problem with this approach is that the whole basis of the alleged abuse is ancedotal evidence of a couple of speculators that is being used to cast all brand owners as abusing the system and then demanding that there be a far flung fishing expedition to find some alleged evidence to justify an effort to dismantle a system that was carefully put in place after much prior discussion and debate . As I said before and will repeat again, the whole basis of the argument is like saying that there must be abuse in family X because some humans around the world over the past year have committed bad acts, and we must investigate the mom dad and children of family X and see if abuse exists. And if you don't let us investigate everything -and go into their house and look at all their belongings and activities and bank accounts etc etc - then you are obviously hiding something and the abuse must exist in family X and be rampant.‎ To put it bluntly, there hea been no evidence presented that bona fide brand owners are abusing the TMCH system in order to horde common terms or stiffle free speech. At best, you have a handful of speculators that gamed the system to some extent. This might be a fix or a tweek to the existing regime, but should not be a wholesle questioning of the entire system. Let' move on already.

‎
From: Michael Karanicolas‎
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 11:06 PM‎
To: Paul Keating
Cc: gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working Group call held earlier today

+1 Paul.

I hate to sound like a broken record on the transparency stuff, but it feels like we're at an impasse, and this is the avenue forward.

We have one side insisting that abuses of the system are taking place, while the other insists that they're not. Isn't the answer here to open things up and allow for an honest accounting of the system? And if the side that denies there's a problem is correct, they'll be proven so. Misinformation and rumour thrive in a climate of secrecy. So let's figure out what's actually going on, and chart a path forward based on that.

On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 7:05 PM, Paul Keating <paul at law.es<mailto:paul at law.es>> wrote:
With information like that below, and recognizing that the TMCH sunrise and notice programs were intended to provide a balanced approach:

1.  I fail to see any reason why we should not be allowed to view the database; or

2.  Treat the failure to be transparent as conclusive evidence that the system is being gamed beyond the balance point, thus justifying revision.

I have seen several emails protesting such transparency but although having asked several times, I have never seen any evidence contradicting the facts noted below, or any legal basis for precluding transparency.

I join George in asking that this issue be opened to the air so to speak and that we push for disclosure of the TMCH database so that we can perform our job to determine if the programs are being abused.

Sent from my iPad

On 10 Apr 2017, at 23:27, Michael Graham (ELCA) <migraham at expedia.com<mailto:migraham at expedia.com>> wrote:
George:

Again, apologies for coming into this conversation late, but could you clarify what you meaning by the term “gaming”?

The only usage I can call to mind in connection with the TMCH would be (1) the acquisition of a trademark registration without actual or intended use of the trademark in order to register the registration in the TMCH, or (2) the fabrication of evidence of Use and its submission to the TMCH in order to entitle one to Sunrise registration.

Michael R. Graham

From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of George Kirikos
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 2:18 PM
To: gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working Group call held earlier today

Some more examples of gaming of the TMCH sunrises, via public blog posts:
1. via Kevin Murphy of DomainIncite.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2FDomainIncite.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C5e6208e1062748e0312d08d48094983f%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636274823093936437&sdata=MYWCiuMLFFLpcdCdh0aA71pfT21aGlBsrspg9zLLymQ%3D&reserved=0>:

http://domainincite.com/16492-how-one-guy-games-new-gtld-sunrise-periods<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdomainincite.com%2F16492-how-one-guy-games-new-gtld-sunrise-periods&data=02%7C01%7C%7C5e6208e1062748e0312d08d48094983f%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636274823093936437&sdata=nYij1cBDe577AhKIg5Njk5aJtzXWSE%2FI6mWHxlfpSBU%3D&reserved=0>
DIRECT, CLOUD, and SOCIAL
Note the comments below that blog post by John Berryhill, who wrote "…and the attorney who was unable to use her client’s US registration for “PHYSICS” with the inconvenient disclaimer, and who then obtained a late change in the TMCH rules allowing figurative registrations, so that her client could use a foreign logo registration to obtain the TMCH entry for that word… is she an IPC member, Kristina?"
implying that the common term "PHYSICS" might also be gamed, by an IPC member. And there are other comments by him and others on that page that are worth reading.
2. via Konstantinos Zournas of OnlineDomain.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2FOnlineDomain.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C5e6208e1062748e0312d08d48094983f%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636274823093936437&sdata=7noaplXPq87xANTDP04DJmDqqMGryWpHrrO7XuvcMeg%3D&reserved=0>:

http://onlinedomain.com/2014/04/15/legal/fake-trademarks-stealing-generic-domains-in-new-gtld-sunrises/<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fonlinedomain.com%2F2014%2F04%2F15%2Flegal%2Ffake-trademarks-stealing-generic-domains-in-new-gtld-sunrises%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C5e6208e1062748e0312d08d48094983f%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636274823093936437&sdata=T%2FGzvo0mjgU99IepO4h15wsc4l76vmSUSF9D4t64uoA%3D&reserved=0>
regarding CLOUD, SOCIAL, BUILD, BET, VACATION, DISCOUNT, WEDDING and others (...etc.) More than 30 TMs of very common terms are mentioned, and over 300 domains were found by that one blogger. There are 46 comments to that blog post, too.
I renew the call for a public comment period, so that more of these kinds of examples of can be submitted to the working group.

Sincerely,
George Kirikos
416-588-0269<tel:8%20(416)%20588-02-69>
http://www.leap.com/<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.leap.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C5e6208e1062748e0312d08d48094983f%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636274823093936437&sdata=Xb5xFUlHc1tEF%2Fis40P5aWV%2BxoObmMoNyvb4whJEtLg%3D&reserved=0>

On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Rebecca Tushnet <Rebecca.Tushnet at law.georgetown.edu<mailto:Rebecca.Tushnet at law.georgetown.edu>> wrote:
When you refuse to say what you would count as evidence of a problem, that leaves us with the evidence I, and George, and Bret, and others have offered--if we want to call them "Group 2" TMCH registrants that would make sense to me.

Rebecca Tushnet
Georgetown Law
703 593 6759

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