[gnso-rpm-wg] 99%+ reduction in sunrise utilization rate per TLD supports EFF call for elimination of sunrise

Kathy Kleiman kathy at kathykleiman.com
Wed Aug 16 14:30:27 UTC 2017


Hi All,

Happy Summer to All who are celebrating it. I am teaching my teenage son 
to drive which makes every other challenge of my life look minor! I've 
reviewed the email of the last few days and want to thank everyone for a 
candid and frankly exciting discussion. These are difficult issues, and 
frankly, there was nothing boring about the discussion taking place here!

My only concern is that it is, in  my personal opinion, untimely. We 
have yet to gather or review the data of the Sunrise Period questions. 
As the first group to review the Sunrise Period as a Consensus Policy, 
it seems to be very much within our ambit and duty to ask "is it fit for 
purpose?" "Is it being used?" "Is it being abused?" I believe all of 
these questions are part of the materials that Lori Schulman and the 
Sunrise Team have put before us. I see all of these questions - and some 
proposed answers -- in the email of the last few days.

I also see some intriguing ideas for tweaks to the system that might a) 
eliminate existing problems and b) serve the same TM protection goals 
(thank you Volker). My only issue is that we have yet to fully 
understand the existing problems. That's the goal of the data gathering 
and the process of evaluation and discussion ahead, right?

What seems to be the issue is whether Jeremy Malcolm's proposal to 
eliminate the Sunrise Period is valid. First, it was timely submitted so 
I see nothing procedurally that would remove it from consideration. 
Second, it seems pretty consistent with the larger evaluation taking 
place as we look at the TMCH Database generally, TM Claims, and Sunrise 
Period. We seem to be asking the same questions across all categories 
(which makes sense to me): is it fit for purpose, is it meeting that 
purpose, is it causing other unintended problems? In the end, what 
recommendations will be pass on to the GNSO Council, e.g., do we keep 
it, do we tweak it, do we expand it, do we remove it? do we reframe and 
revise it?

And yes, where we stand on these issues depends on where we sit (not my 
original quote :-)). Thank you for the preview of the robust discussion 
ahead!  IMHO, this is a discussion for a later date after our review of 
the Sunrise Period data, inputs and findings.

Best, Kathy


On 8/14/2017 4:25 PM, Michael Graham (ELCA) wrote:
>
> While interesting, I believe Volker’s proposal would add an additional 
> level of clerical requirements while at the same time providing an 
> additional point of possible error and effort in the process.
>
> Michael R.
>
> *From:*gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org 
> [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Volker Greimann
> *Sent:* Monday, August 14, 2017 3:43 AM
> *To:* trachtenbergm at gtlaw.com; mike at rodenbaugh.com
> *Cc:* gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org
> *Subject:* Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] 99%+ reduction in sunrise utilization 
> rate per TLD supports EFF call for elimination of sunrise
>
> That one is relatively easy. At this time, registries are already 
> required to remove various lists of domains from the pool of available 
> domains:
>
> - domains blocked by ICANN
>
> - domains blocked by policies or agreement (country names and 
> abbreviations, etc)
>
> - name collision matches
>
> - for some geoTLDs: domains reverved by the government entity for 
> their own use
>
> - unpriced premium names
>
> This proposal would simply add one further category of names that 
> would be reserved for the general public, but open for registration by 
> authorized entities. The TMCH would provide the list to the registry 
> operators.
>
> Best,
>
> Volker
>
> Am 11.08.2017 um 20:19 schrieb trachtenbergm at gtlaw.com 
> <mailto:trachtenbergm at gtlaw.com>:
>
>     One other question. How do you propose removing the eligible
>     sunrise domain names from the pool of available domain names? 
>     Would the TMCH provide a list of all unique marks registered to
>     each registrar?
>
>     Best regards,
>
>     **
>
>     *Marc H. Trachtenberg*
>     Shareholder
>     Greenberg Traurig, LLP | 77 West Wacker Drive | Suite 3100 |
>     Chicago, IL 60601
>     Tel 312.456.1020
>
>     Mobile 773.677.3305
>
>     trachtenbergm at gtlaw.com <mailto:trachtenbergm at gtlaw.com> |
>     www.gtlaw.com <http://www.gtlaw.com/>
>
>     Greenberg Traurig
>
>     *From:*gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org
>     <mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org>
>     [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Mike Rodenbaugh
>     *Sent:* Friday, August 11, 2017 1:13 PM
>     *To:* Volker Greimann
>     *Cc:* David A. Tait
>     *Subject:* Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] 99%+ reduction in sunrise utilization
>     rate per TLD supports EFF call for elimination of sunrise
>
>     I like Volker's idea at first glance. It seems at least worthy of
>     exploration whether indeed it "would solve many of the existing
>     issues."  Volker could you provide a litte more depth to that --
>     what issues you think might be solved?
>
>     Thanks,
>
>     Mike
>
>
>     Mike Rodenbaugh
>
>     RODENBAUGH LAW
>
>     tel/fax:  +1.415.738.8087
>
>     http://rodenbaugh.com
>     <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__rodenbaugh.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=2s2mvbfY0UoSKkl6_Ol9wg&r=L7MB7eHT-UoCXD4iA3c7Sm3JrKXt7T1dG3NjBzCxm1c&m=jwg72GwxQbX1qNofe94rlCW9tHeCPXLavSkWToGTxv0&s=0UbQGByGsiXMTHxa2peJUr-Vj9B26hhK3Ykh2kbLRZE&e=>
>
>
>     On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 6:44 AM, Volker Greimann
>     <vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>> wrote:
>
>     I will not dispute the effectiveness of Sunrise periods for rights
>     holders, however there may be better options that provide just as
>     much protection but have less impact on the release of a new TLD.
>
>     For example, sunrise could be run concurrently with the general
>     launch of a TLD simply by removing the eligible sunrise domain
>     names from the pool of available domain names. Rights holders
>     could still use their TMCH-tokens to register these semi-reserved
>     strings as domain names but the release of the TLD to the general
>     public would not be held back. Other potential registrants would
>     merely receive a notice that this string is reserved until date X
>     due to claimed rights of third parties (which could double as an
>     abbreviated claims notice), or even opt to queue their
>     registration request until the reservation period is over.
>
>     This would actually solve many of the existing issues.
>
>     Best,
>
>     Volker
>
>
>
>     Am 11.08.2017 um 15:12 schrieb Nahitchevansky, Georges:
>
>     ‎I was not going to engage in yet more back and forth on sunrise,
>     but in reading your email, and those of several others, I feel
>     compelled to say something on this by the numbers discussion. 
>     This type of metric driven approach is very much akin to driving
>     down a road with blinders on either side. It's a tad pedantic and
>     as we know from history these types of approaches (many times
>     pushed by bureaucrats) can often lead to disastrous decisions
>     (e.g. Soviet style five year plans). You need to look at the
>     overall situation and what is going on, as opposed to just getting
>     caught up in the numbers -- which after all can get sliced and
>     diced any number of ways. The reality is that brand owners are
>     using  sunrise to protect their brands in the key extensions that
>     relate to their businesses. The numbers may not be huge per se,
>     but the new gTLD program has pretty much, by all accounts, not
>     been the success that ICANN had hoped for. Moreover, we all know
>     that the success of the extensions has been quite uneven. Some are
>     barely breaking even, some have been a great success, others have
>     failed and yet others have only experienced lackluster results.
>     What all of this means is that some extensions are simply not
>     worth registering in.
>
>     That being said, sunrise does have an important value. If there
>     are up to 100,000 plus registrations based on bona fide brands,
>     and some on the most valuable brands in the world, then the system
>     is working as it is preventing a significant amount of
>     cybersquatting .  If we go by he metrics you love, then it is not
>     rocket science to figure out that a landrush approach is going to
>     lead to a large spike of abuse (as we have seen in the past in no
>     sunrise situations). This  in turn leads to significant costs of
>     investigating and pursuing infringements, all of which ultimately
>     leads to more costs to consumers and  loss of faith in the
>     integrity of the system -- particularly if consumers get tricked
>     or defrauded by a domain name that appears to be related to a
>     brand (e.g., Gucci.shoes) and which could have been registered
>     during a sunrise period.
>
>     So while I understand that brand owners are not making sunrise
>     registrations across 1000 plus extensions, the point is that they
>     are generally picking the most logical extensions and are not
>     abusing the sunrise system. So whether the number is one percent
>     or less or ten percent, that number doesn't really  tell the
>     story. 100,000 plus sunrise registrations prevents a ton of abuse,
>     which benefits everyone in the end. The numbers only approach
>     really misses the mark. It's like saying that if a disease affects
>     less that 1% of the world population, we should not waste money on
>     finding a cure for it and stop all funding on such research (even
>     though the costs of treating the disease for the less than 1% will
>     be staggeringly high).
>
>     So in closing, I again urge you to concentrate on trying to find a
>     fix to address the limited speculator issue as opposed to beating
>     a dead horse on the sunrise issue.
>
>>        Original Message
>     From: George Kirikos
>     Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 12:22 AM
>     To: gnso-rpm-wg
>     Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] 99%+ reduction in sunrise utilization
>     rate per TLD supports EFF call for elimination of sunrise
>
>     Hello,
>
>     On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 11:21 PM, Greg Shatan
>     <gregshatanipc at gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     I don't see the math that created your "talking point" of a "99%+
>     reduction
>     in sunrise." Can you show your work please?
>
>     The post at:
>
>     http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/2017-August/002321.html
>     <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mm.icann.org_pipermail_gnso-2Drpm-2Dwg_2017-2DAugust_002321.html&d=DwMFaQ&c=2s2mvbfY0UoSKkl6_Ol9wg&r=L7MB7eHT-UoCXD4iA3c7Sm3JrKXt7T1dG3NjBzCxm1c&m=jwg72GwxQbX1qNofe94rlCW9tHeCPXLavSkWToGTxv0&s=SaVSlCKYsOB5W4Cpqr6ExGPmyYwDyH9LIPojsca4QQM&e=>
>
>     showed numerous sunrise statistics, ranging from 15,000 on the low end
>     for .mobi (.co was slightly lower, although that's a ccTLD, not a TLD
>     that ICANN is involved with in any way), 32,000 for .asia, 80,000 for
>     .biz/.xxx, and who knows what it was for .info?
>
>     Even taking the lowest of those (15,000) as the base, 130 (average
>     new gTLD sunrise from The Analysis Group report) divided by 15,000 =
>     0.0087 = 0.87%, which is less than 1%, i.e. a 99%+ reduction. Of
>     course, if one chose a higher base (.asia, .xxx, .biz, .etc.), or an
>     average of those other sunrises, the reduction is even greater than if
>     one had used the lowest sunrise (from .mobi).
>
>     As for your other statement:
>
>     We can't expect Sunrise registrations to outperform the New gTLD
>     Program generally."
>
>     While the new gTLD program has been a disaster, it hasn't been an
>     underperformance of 99%+ of expectations (perhaps more like 80% to 90%
>     underperformance). Thus, while it's obvious that both have been
>     failures, sunrise usage is an even greater failure than new gTLDs
>     overall. So, even on that relative scale, the sunrise period should be
>     eliminated.
>
>     Since I know you'll ask "George, why do you say there's been an 80% or
>     90% underpeformance for new gTLDs?" let me answer that now to save
>     time. I'll use as my reference (besides the obvious general
>     observations of most informed observers) ICANN's own stats:
>
>     http://domainincite.com/18857-new-gtld-sales-miss-icann-estimates-by-a-mile
>     <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__domainincite.com_18857-2Dnew-2Dgtld-2Dsales-2Dmiss-2Dicann-2Destimates-2Dby-2Da-2Dmile&d=DwMFaQ&c=2s2mvbfY0UoSKkl6_Ol9wg&r=L7MB7eHT-UoCXD4iA3c7Sm3JrKXt7T1dG3NjBzCxm1c&m=jwg72GwxQbX1qNofe94rlCW9tHeCPXLavSkWToGTxv0&s=ENSMgl5Vq0ESXh9K21BdGfbkWFgI8DEjafYfoyk6jdk&e=>
>
>     where the numbers came in at just 18% of ICANN's original 2014
>     expectations. For the math-challenged, 100% - 18% = 82% as the level
>     of underperformance.
>
>     Sincerely,
>
>     George Kirikos
>     416-588-0269 <tel:416-588-0269>
>     http://www.leap.com/
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>
>     CEO: Alexander Siffrin
>     Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
>     V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
>
>     Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
>     www.keydrive.lu
>     <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.keydrive.lu&d=DwMFaQ&c=2s2mvbfY0UoSKkl6_Ol9wg&r=L7MB7eHT-UoCXD4iA3c7Sm3JrKXt7T1dG3NjBzCxm1c&m=jwg72GwxQbX1qNofe94rlCW9tHeCPXLavSkWToGTxv0&s=cYs87qMBjiuPRdlDllyKHDw2Gz1IYXpj3YRTssz5iEM&e=>
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> -- 
> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
> Volker A. Greimann
> - Rechtsabteilung -
> Key-Systems GmbH
> Im Oberen Werk 1
> 66386 St. Ingbert
> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
> Email:vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
> Web:www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net>  /www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net>
> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com>  /www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
> www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>
> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
> www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>  
> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
> --------------------------------------------
> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
> Best regards,
> Volker A. Greimann
> - legal department -
> Key-Systems GmbH
> Im Oberen Werk 1
> 66386 St. Ingbert
> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
> Email:vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
> Web:www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net>  /www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.RRPproxy.net>
> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com>  /www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
> www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>
> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
> CEO: Alexander Siffrin
> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
> www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>  
> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
>
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