[gnso-rpm-wg] TMCH data on abandonment
Greg Shatan
gregshatanipc at gmail.com
Fri Jun 9 15:53:04 UTC 2017
I agree that our recommendations should include suggested data collection
and metrics. The data desert we are wandering in needs to be irrigated so
that it will bloom.
I think Brian's data is helpful in that it provides some real data on a
baseline of abandonment. Not enough to make conclusions but it provides
some sense of a typical abandonment rate.
I think Volker points out an implementation problem, but one that deserves
better understanding -- why are some notices not able to be generated in
the "normal" path? Where does the problem lie? This may make more sense to
discuss when we reach discussion of the Claims Notice.
So far, it's still my personal impression is that we don't have enough data
to draw any conclusions regarding abandonment and its causes (Trademark
Notice vs. Other Reasons, "Good" Chilling Effect v. "Bad" Chilling Effect).
FYI FWIW, hotel.xyz is available as a premium domain at the low, low price
of $3,249.99 (Cheap! At least by comparison to hotel.design or hotel.party,
which are $6,499.99)
Also FYI, the owner of cloud.xyz (which seems to resolve to a blank page)
is:
Registrant Name: Zhang Guo
Registrant Organization: Zhang Guo
Registrant Street: You Yi Lu 71Hao
Registrant City: QHDS
Registrant State/Province: HBS
Registrant Postal Code: 066000
Registrant Country: CN
Registrant Phone: +86.13031887567
Registrant Fax: +86.13031887567
Registrant Email: saik56 at 163.com
Registry Admin ID: C123319878-CNIC
G
reg
On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 11:00 AM, J. Scott Evans via gnso-rpm-wg <
gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org> wrote:
> Volker:
>
> Thanks for this perspective. I know that my marketing team struggles with
> what they call “stickiness” of a registration process. Specifically, they
> are always looking for ways to streamline the registration process because
> the “stickier” the process (the more steps need to complete registration)
> leads to a high drop off rate. Your antidotal evidence certainly aligns
> with the same type of situation my folks at Adobe find difficult in selling
> our subscriptions.
>
>
> J. Scott Evans
> 408.536.5336 (tel)
> 345 Park Avenue, Mail Stop W11-544
> Director, Trademarks
> 408.709.6162 (cell)
> San Jose, CA, 95110, USA
> Adobe. Make It an Experience.
> jsevans at adobe.com
> www.adobe.com
>
>
>
>
> On 6/9/17, 7:52 AM, "gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org on behalf of Volker
> Greimann" <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org on behalf of
> vgreimann at key-systems.net> wrote:
>
> There can be a significant drop-off due the necessity to present this
> notice seperate from the purchase process.
>
> Examples:
>
> 1) Potential Registrant pre-orders a domain: the notice cannot be
> presented at the time of purchase
>
> 2) Potential Registrant orders the domain through a reseller with its
> own front-end: the notice cannot be presented by the registrar in the
> purchase process
>
> Result => Notice has to be presented after the order is received but
> before it is executed in an alternate process, usually email. While we
> have not at the time measured the actual rate, we did note a
> significant
> drop-off between the numbers of registrants directed to visit a website
> where the notice could be presented and confirmed and the number of
> mails sent. The drop-off between the number of customers visiting the
> site, seeing the notice and then deciding not to pursue the
> registration
> was smaller.
>
> Conclusion: The current noticeconfirmation process that is supposed to
> be in the registration path does not work well in real life for many
> industry sales channel.
>
> Best,
>
> Volker
>
>
> Am 09.06.2017 um 16:28 schrieb J. Scott Evans via gnso-rpm-wg:
> > Brain. Point taken. I don’t mean to be flippant. That said, I am
> growing increasing tired of there always being a negative inference from
> behaviors from those that are overall hostile to RPMs in general. My point
> is that as a proponent of RPMs and someone who worked diligently for over 9
> months to come up with these RPMs that the abandonment rate does not
> automatically indicate that the system is not working as intended.
> >
> >
> > J. Scott Evans
> > 408.536.5336 (tel)
> > 345 Park Avenue, Mail Stop W11-544
> > Director, Trademarks
> > 408.709.6162 (cell)
> > San Jose, CA, 95110, USA
> > Adobe. Make It an Experience.
> > jsevans at adobe.com
> > www.adobe.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 6/9/17, 7:24 AM, "Brian F. Cimbolic" <BCimbolic at pir.org> wrote:
> >
> > J. Scott, respectfully, what evidence is there that the Claims
> notice provided to registrants is not having a chilling effect for those
> with no intention to infringe? I understand there is not direct evidence
> on either side of the issue, but to say decisively that it is "Not so"
> about the chilling effect without providing some evidence seems
> unnecessarily flippant.
> >
> > Brian Cimbolic
> > Deputy General Counsel, Public Interest Registry
> > Office: +1 703 889-5752| Mobile: + 1 571 385-7871|
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
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> h8qAN8le9SbhQvR0IawnyuRDu%2Fb1%2Bv2fpfbG6MNipug%3D&reserved=0 | Facebook
> | Twitter | Instagram | YouTube
> >
> >
> > Confidentiality Note: Proprietary and confidential to Public
> Interest Registry. If received in error, please inform sender and then
> delete.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org [mailto:
> gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of J. Scott Evans via gnso-rpm-wg
> > Sent: Friday, June 09, 2017 10:19 AM
> > To: Rebecca Tushnet <Rebecca.Tushnet at law.georgetown.edu>;
> Beckham, Brian <brian.beckham at wipo.int>
> > Cc: gnso-rpm-wg at icann.org
> > Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] TMCH data on abandonment
> > Importance: High
> >
> > I will remind the group that Abandonment is the point. The TM
> Claims notice is designed to inform would-be innocent infringers that there
> is an issue. A high abandonment rate show that the system is working. I
> realize those hostile to the TM Claims feel that a high abandonment rate is
> proof that the Claims notice is overreaching. Not so.
> >
> > J. Scott
> >
> >
> > J. Scott Evans
> > 408.536.5336 (tel)
> > 345 Park Avenue, Mail Stop W11-544
> > Director, Trademarks
> > 408.709.6162 (cell)
> > San Jose, CA, 95110, USA
> > Adobe. Make It an Experience.
> > jsevans at adobe.com
> > www.adobe.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 6/9/17, 7:16 AM, "gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org on behalf
> of Rebecca Tushnet" <gnso-rpm-wg-bounces at icann.org on behalf of
> Rebecca.Tushnet at law.georgetown.edu> wrote:
> >
> > I agree with Paul K. Unfortunately, we need better
> information than
> > that--we need to know about, of attempts that reached the
> stage at
> > which a notice would be provided, how many were abandoned.
> It's my
> > understanding--though I'd be happy to learn more--that the
> notice
> > wouldn't come when the shopping cart was filled but at
> checkout.
> >
> > If we just don't have the data, then it may be that our only
> > recommendation must be to get the data.
> > Rebecca Tushnet
> > Georgetown Law
> > 703 593 6759
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 4:56 AM, Beckham, Brian <
> brian.beckham at wipo.int> wrote:
> > > Dear all,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I’m not sure what is the right venue (i.e., in the
> sub-group, of which I am
> > > not a member, or to the full WG) to offer this, and it is
> offered merely to
> > > help fill out some of the questions/discussion around
> seeking various
> > > TMCH/Claims-related data.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In the transcript for the Sub Team for Trademark Claims
> call on Friday, 02
> > > June 2017 at 16:00 UTC, there was some discussion on
> abandonment rates. In
> > > summary: Rebeca Tushnet suggested it would be helpful to
> compare
> > > non-TMCH-related abandonment vs “regular” abandonment.
> Jeff Neuman recalled
> > > that during the BIZ launch there was a high abandonment.
> Phil Corwin
> > > suggested that if the non-TMCH-related abandonment rate
> was 80% then it may
> > > be reasonable to conclude that there’s not a material
> difference between
> > > those subject to claims notices.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Mindful that it may be difficult or even impossible to
> obtain the desired
> > > data (a number of reasons, including competitive
> (dis-)advantages, were
> > > raised on the call), a recent GoDaddy post informs us
> that “An average
> > > website loses 69 percent of sales to abandoned carts.”
> A second GoDaddy
> > > article suggests it is 67%.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > See
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> https%3A%2F%2Fwww.godaddy.com%2Fgarage%2Fsmallbusiness%
> 2Fmarket%2Feffective-strategies-to-boost-abandoned-
> cart-email-conversion-rates%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%
> 7C5323a61f9cb343c0017d08d4af42231a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de
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> g1LeeFXqplKq4%3D&reserved=0
> > > and
> > >
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> https%3A%2F%2Fwww.godaddy.com%2Fgarage%2Findustry%2Fretail%
> 2Fecommerce%2Fwant-to-to-increase-sales-reduce-
> shopping-cart-abandonment%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%
> 7C5323a61f9cb343c0017d08d4af42231a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de
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> wMl4YK42BQp6c%3D&reserved=0.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > There are many articles on this topic with varying
> figures, but they tended
> > > to generally note abandonment rates upwards of 60%.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The takeaway is that the TMCH-Claims rates observed here
> in the WG, while
> > > different/higher, are arguably not materially different
> than e-commerce
> > > statistics generally (certainly not the 20% noted by Phil
> Corwin as
> > > signaling “a significant difference in the completion of
> registration.”).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It is important here to recall too that many members of
> the WG have noted
> > > that (for a number of reasons) registries, registrars,
> and registrants may
> > > have been sending queries in large numbers, thus skewing
> the data upwards.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Brian
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Brian Beckham | Head, Internet Dispute Resolution Section
> | WIPO Arbitration
> > > and Mediation Center
> > > 34 chemin des Colombettes, 1211 Geneva 20, Switzerland |
> T +4122 338 8247 |
> > > E brian.beckham at wipo.int | https://na01.safelinks.
> protection.outlook.com/?url=www.wipo.int&data=02%7C01%7C%
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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