<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Paul,</div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">Let's play nice. Proof of use is certainly not a financial disclosure and I would think any trademark holder acting in good faith should have no problem, showing actual use.</div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">At any rate lets table this for the appropriate moment. <br><br><span style="font-size: 13pt;">Paul Keating</span></div><div><br>On 20 Aug 2016, at 4:45 PM, Paul McGrady <<a href="mailto:policy@paulmcgrady.com">policy@paulmcgrady.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>Thanks George. An interesting idea. I wonder how Respondents would feel about a reciprocal requirement that they turn over audited financial statements in order to have standing to register a domain name? You might have finally cooked up the deterrent to cybersquatting in the first place! </span><br><span></span><br><span>Regards,</span><br><span>Paul</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>Paul D. McGrady, Jr.</span><br><span><a href="mailto:policy@paulmcgrady.com">policy@paulmcgrady.com</a></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>-----Original Message-----</span><br><span>From: <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>] On Behalf Of George Kirikos</span><br><span>Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2016 8:20 AM</span><br><span>To: <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a></span><br><span>Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Questionable UDRPs & TM applications</span><br><span></span><br><span>To participate in a new gTLD sunrise period, a TMCH markholder must submit a proof of use, see question/answer 2.2 through 2.4 of:</span><br><span></span><br><span><a href="https://newgtlds.icann.org/en/about/trademark-clearinghouse/faqs">https://newgtlds.icann.org/en/about/trademark-clearinghouse/faqs</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>The justification for that requirement was to prevent gaming. This rule was established before sunrise periods even came about for new gTLDs, as folks expected abuse if the proof of use requirement did not exist (and they saw what happened in the .EU sunrise).</span><br><span></span><br><span>The same principle should apply to the UDRP, given the *actual* abuse we're observing, as folks exploit gaping loopholes in the policy. In the 1990s, the drafters of the UDRP either did not contemplate these kinds of attacks, or did not appreciate the potential severity of the problem. To not eliminate those loopholes would invite further abuse of domain name registrants.</span><br><span></span><br><span>We're not at that disussion point yet, but when we get there I will suggest going much further than simply using "proof of use" for standing requirements of the UDRP. If there was an actual lawsuit, it's almost a certainty that revenues generated by the trademarked goods/services would need to be presented to the courts. If UDRP complainants had to file audited financials relating to actual revenues generated from their mark, that would go a long way to eliminating abuse of the procedure by trademark trolls.</span><br><span></span><br><span>Sincerely,</span><br><span></span><br><span>George Kirikos</span><br><span>416-588-0269</span><br><span><a href="http://www.leap.com/">http://www.leap.com/</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 8:52 AM, Paul McGrady <<a href="mailto:policy@paulmcgrady.com">policy@paulmcgrady.com</a>> wrote:</span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>While I think this subject is several months premature, and I don’t </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>want to wade in on the substance at this time, we should note that </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>what is being suggested here is that ICANN give preference to certain </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>national trademark regimes and disregard others. Tricky topic in </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>ICANNland for sure, especially these days.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Best to all,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Paul</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Paul D. McGrady, Jr.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:policy@paulmcgrady.com">policy@paulmcgrady.com</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>From: <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>[<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Behalf Of Edward Morris</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Sent: Friday, August 19, 2016 6:53 PM</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>To: Phil Corwin <<a href="mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com">psc@vlaw-dc.com</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Cc: <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Questionable UDRPs & TM applications</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Excellent point, Phil.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Sent from my iPhone</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On 20 Aug 2016, at 00:49, Phil Corwin <<a href="mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com">psc@vlaw-dc.com</a>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>This suggests to me that all trademarks are not created equal, and </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>that when we reach our UDRP work we may wish to address the issue of </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>whether a certain quality of trademark should be required for filing a UDRP.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Virtualaw LLC</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>1155 F Street, NW</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Suite 1050</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Washington, DC 20004</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>202-559-8597/Direct</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>202-559-8750/Fax</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>202-255-6172/Cell</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Twitter: @VlawDC</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>From: <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>[<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Behalf Of Emil</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Sent: Friday, August 19, 2016 5:44 PM</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>To: Paul Keating</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Cc: <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Questionable UDRPs & TM applications</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Paul, thank you for appreciating my concern.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>I am very pleased to see that I can bring value in this exclusive </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>community of professionals.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>In the last 12 years I've seen a lot of cases where legitimate SMEs </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>get bullied with the "we'll get your domain" threat based on abusive </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>TM registrations, mostly postdating the domain name registration </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>dates. In some cases I am very familiar with the patterns - as in how </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>relatively established website owners try to game the system - concrete ways.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>This is a major problem in certain countries of Europe (eastern block) </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>and outside Europe (countries like Tunisia let's say) where you can </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>theoretically register any trademark even if it is not necessarily </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>distinctive, special nor recognizable.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On 20 Aug 2016 00:15, Paul Keating <<a href="mailto:Paul@law.es">Paul@law.es</a>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>This and comments such as George's should not be lost. These comments </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>need to be retained and specifically addressed during the UDRP portion of the WG.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>From: <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>> on behalf of Emil <<a href="mailto:emil@cv.ro">emil@cv.ro</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Date: Friday, August 19, 2016 4:30 PM</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>To: George Kirikos <<a href="mailto:icann@leap.com">icann@leap.com</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Cc: <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Questionable UDRPs & TM applications</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>George, often TM registrations are granted on bogus or strange claims. </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>For example Christian Louboutin was granted a TM for red shoes </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>outsole. By this logic BMW could be granted a TM for silver cars.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>In the domain world:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>There is a car rental company called <a href="http://economycarrentals.com">economycarrentals.com</a>. They tried </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>to obtain a TM at European level for "economy car rentals", a super </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>generic term used by thousands of rental agencies. Why? So that they </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>can claim <a href="http://economyrentacar.com">economyrentacar.com</a> and <a href="http://economyrentalcars.com">economyrentalcars.com</a> in WIPO - the </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>EMD of their main competitor.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>They were refused (now twice) an EM Europe Wide trademark for lack of </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>distinctiveness but went on and tried at country level. A handfull of </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>countries allowed them to register a word (not figurative) trademark </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>on "economy car rentals" a dictionary super generic formulation. Now </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>they will threaten & hussle with a WIPO arbitration all the local TLD </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>owners for those particular countries.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Emil</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________ gnso-rpm-wg mailing </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>list <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a> </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>No virus found in this message.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Version: 2016.0.7752 / Virus Database: 4633/12811 - Release Date: </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>08/15/16</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>gnso-rpm-wg mailing list</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>gnso-rpm-wg mailing list</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg</a></span><br></blockquote><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>gnso-rpm-wg mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a></span><br><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>gnso-rpm-wg mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a></span><br><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg</a></span></div></blockquote></body></html>