<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><div>Me too</div><div><br></div><div>Can you please help by referencing any record for complaints noted in your email below?</div><div><br></div><div>I really want to find out one way or the other if this is an issue and if so how it should be fairly addressed.</div><div><br></div><div>PRK</div><div><br></div><span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"><div style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span> Paul McGrady <<a href="mailto:policy@paulmcgrady.com">policy@paulmcgrady.com</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span> Monday, August 22, 2016 5:20 PM<br><span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span> Paul Keating <<a href="mailto:paul@law.es">paul@law.es</a>>, 'Jeff Neuman' <<a href="mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com">jeff.neuman@comlaude.com</a>>, 'David Tait' <<a href="mailto:david.tait@icann.org">david.tait@icann.org</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span> <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span> RE: [gnso-rpm-wg] Objection to PDDRP Mediation (was Re: Call for volunteers - RPMs Working Group, Mediation sub-team)<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote id="MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style="BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;"><div xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div lang="EN-US" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Thanks Paul K. for these thoughts. Looking forward to working with you on the Subteam to see if we can get this one sorted.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Paul M.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Paul D. McGrady, Jr.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="mailto:policy@paulmcgrady.com">policy@paulmcgrady.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Paul Keating [<a href="mailto:Paul@law.es">mailto:Paul@law.es</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 22, 2016 10:07 AM<br><b>To:</b> Paul McGrady <<a href="mailto:policy@paulmcgrady.com">policy@paulmcgrady.com</a>>; 'Jeff Neuman' <<a href="mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com">jeff.neuman@comlaude.com</a>>; 'David Tait' <<a href="mailto:david.tait@icann.org">david.tait@icann.org</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Objection to PDDRP Mediation (was Re: Call for volunteers - RPMs Working Group, Mediation sub-team)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">If in fact there have been complaints to ICANN about the issue of Registry activities with respect to this issue, I would like to see them documented for the benefit of the WG. When we 1st discussed the burden of proof issue the question was raised but not substantiated - that there had been no complaints because the burden was too high. The question was raised as to whether complaints had been made. I did not see any evidence put forward that any complaints had been even attempted.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">If there has been a "tendency to run to ICANN Staff & Board with complaints" then there should be some record of such. I would like to see those records and I request that Mary try to dig them up for us. If these comments are unsubstantiated then they are not worth much IMHO. If they are substantiated then they are worth investigating further.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">While I have volunteered for the sub-group on mediation, I still consider Jeff's point (which I had echoed on calls as well) to be a primary guiding point for me. Just as I did not see the need to fix something that was not broken, I do not favor a new system that will reduce the burden of "making a claim" with the result of placing an unfair burden upon registries and registrars to deal with each and every complaint or concern. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">While it is certainly costly for trademark holders to police their marks, we need to remember that registries and registrars are a high-volume/low-margin business (a registrar for example might make as little as 50Cents on every domain registration – w which will cover about 15 seconds of legal time).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Given that the registries/registrars are really operating under contract with ICANN and that the dispute mechanism we are discussing is essentially a "private right of action" we need to take care not to relieve ICANN of its primary responsibility to police its own agreements. And, we must be careful about the relative burdens/profits involved as between the underlying "claimants" (trademark holder vs registry/registrar).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"><<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>> on behalf of Paul McGrady <<a href="mailto:policy@paulmcgrady.com">policy@paulmcgrady.com</a>><br><b>Date: </b>Monday, August 22, 2016 4:48 PM<br><b>To: </b>'Jeff Neuman' <<a href="mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com">jeff.neuman@comlaude.com</a>>, 'David Tait' <<a href="mailto:david.tait@icann.org">david.tait@icann.org</a>><br><b>Cc: </b><<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Objection to PDDRP Mediation (was Re: Call for volunteers - RPMs Working Group, Mediation sub-team)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id="MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Hi Jeff,</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">I agree with the general sentiment that if it’s not broken, we should not be out looking for ways to fix it. However, in the case of building in a mediation mechanism, rather than a change to the elements of a complaint, I think we may want to make an exception here if it “gives peace a chance” in the long term. </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">One of the complaints the IPC heard from the Registry House in Helsinki was that there is a tendency to run to ICANN Staff & Board with complaints instead of dealing with the registry in the first instance to see if it can be resolved. The additional of a mediation option seems, to me, to bake in an opportunity <b><u>and method</u></b> for that dialogue in advance of a more formal complaint (via PDDRP or to Staff/Board). In other words, all the mediation program would do is make a way forward for what we all aspire to anyway – talking our problems out with each other. </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Best,</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Paul</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jeff Neuman<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, August 21, 2016 8:20 PM<br><b>To:</b> David Tait <<a href="mailto:david.tait@icann.org">david.tait@icann.org</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [gnso-rpm-wg] Objection to PDDRP Mediation (was Re: Call for volunteers - RPMs Working Group, Mediation sub-team)</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Just to be clear, this is about mediation as it relates to the Post Delegation Dispute Resolution Policy, not mediation of disputes in general. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">I still have a standing objection about the formation of this group and looking at mediating issues between a registry operator and a complainant as there has been no evidence for the need of such a program since there has been no evidence yet of any situation that could have given rise to a PDDRP dispute. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">I will continue to be a broken record on this l, but absent evidence demonstrating a need for any changes, we should not be spending any time on making those changes. <br><br>Jeff Neuman<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="color:black"><br>On Aug 19, 2016, at 12:19 PM, David Tait <<a href="mailto:david.tait@icann.org">david.tait@icann.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Dear Working Group members</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">At its meeting on 17 August 2016 the Working Group concluded that there was a need to convene a sub-team to review the issue of Optional mediation and put forward an outline proposal for consideration by WG. Staff would therefore invite those who would be interested in participating in this sub-team to respond to this email and we will begin the process of establishing the sub-team.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">We would kindly request that you send us any responses by 0900 UTC 24 August 2016</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Please note that Petter Rindforth has already kindly volunteered for this sub-team.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Kind regards,<br><br>David Tait</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; ">David A. Tait</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; ">Policy Specialist (Solicitor qualified in Scotland)</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; ">Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; ">Mobile: + 44-7864-793776</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; ">Email: <a href="mailto:david.tait@icann.org">david.tait@icann.org</a> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; "><a href="http://www.icann.org">www.icann.org</a></span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; ">_______________________________________________<br>gnso-rpm-wg mailing list<br><a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg</a></span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">_______________________________________________ gnso-rpm-wg mailing list <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a> <a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></span></body></html>