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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">+1 J. Scott; +1 Kathy. Thank you both for using your extensive participation and experience in the history and development of these protocols to provide objective
focus and meaningful framing of the issues. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Best regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Scott</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"><img width="140" height="60" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image002.jpg@01D21A3E.0C5AAF90" alt="vlp_logo"><img width="40" height="53" id="Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image004.jpg@01D21A3E.0C5AAF90" alt="IntellectualPropertyLaw 100">
</span></b><a href="http://www.avvo.com/attorneys/33308-fl-scott-austin-1261914.html"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D; text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="150" height="36" id="Picture_x0020_3" src="cid:image006.jpg@01D21A3E.0C5AAF90" alt="microbadge[1]"></span></b></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Scott R. Austin | Board Certified Intellectual Property Attorney | VLP Law Group LLP</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">101 NE Third Avenue, Suite 1500, Fort Lauderdale, FL 33301
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Phone: (954) 204-3744 | Fax: (954) 320-0233 |
<a href="mailto:SAustin@VLPLawGroup.com">SAustin@VLPLawGroup.com</a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:windowtext"> gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kathy Kleiman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 29, 2016 10:23 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] "free speech"</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Hi All, I tried to post this message last night. If anyone else is having problems posting to our list, please let me, J. Scott or Phil know.
</span></p>
<p>------------------------------------------------</p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Dear All, </span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">For those of us who go back to the beginning of time on these issues, I want to note how happy I am that our call for new participants has been answered. We have a number of new members on the Working Group,
and they bring new questions, extensive backgrounds and expertise and new avenues of inquiry. We have the old guard who have worked on these issues for years. All are welcome and appreciated!</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">I also appreciate our dynamic discussion in and after the Working Group meeting today. We are working on the issue of what is within scope for our discussion of the Trademark Clearinghouse generally, and
today, the Trademark Claims Services in particular. One of the questions that has been solidly placed before us (in different forms and different ways) is whether the current Rights Protection Mechanisms and the TMCH Services are fair and balanced. Do both
trademark owners and nontrademark owners have appropriate and legal access to domain names?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Important questions were raised today about trademark rights and the limits of trademark rights. It is an inquiry that goes back to the Special Trademarks Initiative Group of the GNSO, if not before. It
seems a very appropriate part of our inquiry to ask whether in a hypothetical .FORPRESIDENT New gTLD, we have a TMCH system that allows Clinton Watches, Clinton Fences and Clinton Printing Paper to register CLINTON.FORPRESIDENT before Secretary Hillary Clinton?
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">When basic words of political discourse such as FREEDOM (USPTO IC 028 Mounts and mounting devices adapted for use with suspended physical fitness equipment. Reg No. 5042693), LIBERTY (USPTO IC 009 Hearing
muffs, namely, sound amplifiers. Reg No. 4793635), and TRUST (USPTO IC 028. In-line skate liners. Reg No. 4301142) are used as trademarks, but also play an integral role in the fabric of political dialogue, we have a Free Expression issue and concern before
us. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">That was our goal for today - not answers, but questions. I think we found some good ones...</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Best,
<br>
Kathy</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 9/28/2016 3:07 PM, J. Scott Evans wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Rebecca:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">With regard to your last point, I believe we have a problem with nomenclature that has plagued this debate for 17 years. To your last point, I believe you are speaking “dictionary terms” that, in certain instances, can also be generic terms.
Apple for apples is a generic. Apple for apple juice is descriptive or perhaps suggestive. Apple for smartphones is arbitrary. I do not believe that trademark owners should have the right to thwart criticism or protest or to prevent third parties with equally
legitimate rights from using a string that may well be identical to a trademark, so long as the use in the domain is, in fact, non-infringing. What I worry about is the emotional argument and posturing about free speech in this debate. There seems to be a
constant implied argument that trademark owners as a whole wish to squelch “internationally” recognized concepts of free speech. Yes, there are over aggressive trademark owners that seek to abuse the RPMs and trademark laws. Equally true, there a scurilous
players in the DNS that seek to infringe the rights of trademark owners to the detriment of consumers. Our job is to try and find a balanced way of protecting both interests.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">J. Scott</p>
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<p style="margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt"><b><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:#7F7F7F">J. Scott Evans</span></b><span style="color:#7F7F7F"> </span><b><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:#7F7F7F">| Associate General
Counsel - Trademarks, Copyright, Domains & Marketing</span></b><b><span style="color:#7F7F7F"> </span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:#7F7F7F">|</span></b></p>
<p style="margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt"><b><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:red">Adobe </span></b></p>
<p style="margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:#7F7F7F">345 Park Avenue</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:#7F7F7F">San Jose, CA 95110<br>
408.536.5336 (tel), 408.709.6162 (cell)<br>
<a href="mailto:jsevans@adobe.com"><span style="color:#954F72">jsevans@adobe.com</span></a></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:#7F7F7F"><a href="http://www.adobe.c">www.adobe.c</a>om</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Lucida Grande","serif"">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Lucida Grande","serif"">Rebecca Tushnet <<a href="mailto:rlt26@law.georgetown.edu">rlt26@law.georgetown.edu</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 11:39 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>"J. Scott Evans" <<a href="mailto:jsevans@adobe.com">jsevans@adobe.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [gnso-rpm-wg] "free speech"</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">J. Scott, I don’t believe my statement holds up US First Amendment law as the standard; let me say again that freedom of speech, not the First
Amendment, is an internationally recognized value, and that criticism of private businesses is generally part of freedom of speech. FWIW, I don’t recognize Wikipedia as authoritative either, though the entry actually provides helpful external links if you
peruse it.</span></a></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Further resources on comparative freedom of speech regimes include the very helpful overview at
</span><a href="http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1633231"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1633231</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">
and the many sources cited therein (if any nonlawyers lack access to the cited works, I may be able to help), as well as Ronald
</span><a href="https://1.next.westlaw.com/Document/I7cb6ccefefd311e498db8b09b4f043e0/View/FullText.html?navigationPath=Search%2Fv3%2Fsearch%2Fresults%2Fnavigation%2Fi0ad6040a00000157720fabec289f3264%3FNav%3DANALYTICAL%26fragmentIdentifier%3DI7cb6ccefefd311e498db8b09b4f043e0%26startIndex%3D1%26contextData%3D%2528sc.Search%2529%26transitionType%3DSearchItem&listSource=Search&listPageSource=3b36d775a69aec3c8b89adc711488adc&list=ANALYTICAL&rank=8&grading=na&sessionScopeId=974384ae4bca6a686949f50a8f8ca2525f0f068a2ff02f65c47cc9b4335d4752&originationContext=Search%20Result&transitionType=SearchItem&contextData=%28sc.Search%29#co_term_19621"><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#660066; background:white">Krotoszynski,
Jr., The First Amendment in Cross-Cultural Perspective:</span></a> A Comparative Legal Analysis of the Freedom of Speech (2006).</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Also, many jurisdictions don’t use the terminology of “fair use,” but as far as I am aware very few consider all criticism, or all unauthorized use of a term, infringing;
indeed, it would perhaps be helpful, especially for the nonlawyers in the group, to see the citations on which you are basing your legal statements about the scope of trademark or speech rights outside the US.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Finally, the problem we are facing is that there is no neutral baseline here, and we have already adopted substantial protections for trademark rights claimants who have
any recognized rights in <i>any</i> relevant jurisdiction; we should recognize the variety of freedom of speech interests the same as we recognize the variety of trademark rights. As Kathy noted on the call, a significant number of the relevant marks are
generic for at least some things and not universally famous, which increases the breadth of rights protections far beyond actual rights.
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Rebecca Tushnet</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Georgetown Law</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">703 593 6759</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> J. Scott Evans [<a href="mailto:jsevans@adobe.com">mailto:jsevans@adobe.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 28, 2016 2:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Rebecca Tushnet<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] "free speech"</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Rebecca:</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Thanks for weighing in here. First, I do not use Wikipedia as a definitive source for anything related to the law. It is interesting reading and may require that I go to more
definitive sources to verify, but I do not put much stock in it as the absolute “truth” on any subject. Second, many countries have almost an exact replica of the US Constitution, but don’t recognize the provision related to free speech. Likewise, many jurisdictions
do not recognize the concept of “fair use.” My only point our call was that there are many non-lawyers participating. I think many time views are put forth on our calls that could be seen as misleading. It is one thing to hold the US concept of free speech
up as the standard bearer that we should aspire to in our work (I could also argue that US concept of IP protection should also be held up as an appropriate standard). However, in my experiences at ICANN since we originally drafted, it has constantly been
pointed out that we SHOULD NOT apply US-like trademark protections to the ICANN RPMs since different jurisdictions view trademarks differently. I can theoretically see the rationale behind this argument. Unfortunately for me, however, I fail to see how the
concept of US free speech should be universally applied, but US-like trademark protections should not. I think that is intellectually inconsistent. As for the UN’s Universal Declaration of Human Rights and its signatories, I think the same position could
be taken with regard to the Paris Convention and its signatories. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">J. Scott</span></p>
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<p style="margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">J. Scott Evans</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#7F7F7F"> </span><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">| Associate
General Counsel - Trademarks, Copyright, Domains & Marketing</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#7F7F7F"> </span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">|</span></b></p>
<p style="margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:red">Adobe </span></b></p>
<p style="margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">345 Park Avenue</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">San Jose, CA 95110<br>
408.536.5336 (tel), 408.709.6162 (cell)<br>
<a href="mailto:jsevans@adobe.com"><span style="color:#954F72">jsevans@adobe.com</span></a></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""><a href="http://www.adobe.com">www.adobe.com</a></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Lucida Grande","serif"">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Lucida Grande","serif""><<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>> on behalf of Rebecca Tushnet <<a href="mailto:rlt26@law.georgetown.edu">rlt26@law.georgetown.edu</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 10:34 AM<br>
<b>Cc: </b>"<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[gnso-rpm-wg] "free speech"</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Just to correct a misstatement on the call earlier: Most nations don’t have a US-style First Amendment. Most nations with a rule of law do, however, recognize freedom
of speech in some form, including the right to criticize private companies. As this Wikipedia entry notes,
</span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">,
implementation can be inconsistent on the ground, but I expect that inconsistent enforcement of trademark rights on the ground doesn’t mean that trademark owners want ICANN to ignore the law on the books; freedom of speech is equally a principle worth honoring.
In addition, I don’t know how many countries whose nationals participate in the ICANN process have signed on to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which includes freedom of speech,
</span><a href="http://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">http://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">,
but I doubt we want to make policy based on the countries that don’t recognize any freedom of speech at all.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Also, you can’t have it both ways: if domain names can facilitate infringement, which they absolutely can, then they convey meaning; if they convey meaning, they can also
facilitate noninfringing conduct or affirmatively protected freedom of speech. It is just as true, or untrue, that a trademark owner can register a different string if it can’t have the one that it wants as it is that a person making fair or otherwise noninfringing
use can do so. This is especially so if we’ve given trademark owners the ability to jump the line in many circumstances. Freedom of speech principles may help tell us when preclusion of a domain name to a speaker—whether a trademark owner or a non-owner—is
of particular importance. That is, they can help us identify the important false positives (notifications generated in response to domain names that wouldn’t infringe).</span></p>
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