<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">J. Scott said,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">Trademark owners should not overreach, true. However, the terms you cite deserve no greater scrutiny than any other dictionary term. The TMCH has been around for approximately 18 months and I have seen no reporting that the marks registered in the TMCH have severely hobbled free expression.<br class=""></blockquote></div><br class=""><div apple-content-edited="true" class="">
<div style="orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; widows: auto; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; widows: auto; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; widows: auto; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; widows: auto; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; widows: auto; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; widows: auto; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; widows: auto; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue'; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">And I agree. The challenge is coming up with a solution that neither allows trademark owners to be taken advantage of nor encourages overreach. “Apple” in all TLDs needn’t be reserved or treated specially, but the TMCH does allow a trademark owner to buy it first. There are some instances where (police.london was a much-touted one) a trademark in conjunction with the TLD means something different enough that it would make no sense to allow the trademark owner first rights. Those are a case-by-case issue.</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue'; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue'; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Are we:</div><div style="orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; widows: auto; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><ol class="MailOutline"><li class="">looking to modify and/or validate the TMCH?</li><li class="">looking to supplement the TMCH with additional protection for trademark rights?</li><li class="">expand the TMCH to include non-trademark rights?</li></ol><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">We are having a very interesting and far-ranging conversation about free speech and the like, but I’m not clear on the focus that we should be maintaining.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thanks,</div><div class="">Reg</div><br class=""></div><div style="orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; widows: auto; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue'; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; widows: auto; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Reg Levy<br class="">VP Compliance + Policy | Minds + Machines Group Limited<br class="">C: +1-310-963-7135<br class="">S: RegLevy2<br class=""><br class="">Current UTC offset: -7</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div>
<br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 29 Sep 2016, at 08:46, Paul Keating <<a href="mailto:Paul@law.es" class="">Paul@law.es</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><div class="">The term “free speech” itself is a false deity. It is all about the protections afforded to speech. While some jurisdictions may go further than others I think taking J. Scott’s comment to mean “speech is not protected” would be a misrepresentation of the situation.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Aside from “free speech” there is the closely related concept of fair use.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">And, finally, of course, trademark protection is limited in scope. It does not act to preclude use of the identical indicator for unrelated goods/services or for purposes which are generic (meaning the thing or its essence) or descriptive (use in describing the thing).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I think it would serve us best to keep in mind the distinctions.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Paul Keating</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" class=""><div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: 11pt; text-align: left; border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; padding: 3pt 0in 0in; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223);" class=""><span style="font-weight:bold" class="">From: </span> <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" class="">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>> on behalf of Rebecca Tushnet <<a href="mailto:rlt26@law.georgetown.edu" class="">rlt26@law.georgetown.edu</a>><br class=""><span style="font-weight:bold" class="">Date: </span> Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 5:31 PM<br class=""><span style="font-weight:bold" class="">To: </span> Paul McGrady <<a href="mailto:policy@paulmcgrady.com" class="">policy@paulmcgrady.com</a>><br class=""><span style="font-weight:bold" class="">Cc: </span> "<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" class="">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" class="">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>><br class=""><span style="font-weight:bold" class="">Subject: </span> Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] "free speech"<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote id="MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style="BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;" class="" type="cite"><div xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" class=""><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)" class=""><style class=""><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
span.BalloonTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text";
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
p.msonormal0, li.msonormal0, div.msonormal0
{mso-style-name:msonormal;
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
span.apple-tab-span
{mso-style-name:apple-tab-span;}
span.EmailStyle22
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle23
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:windowtext;}
span.EmailStyle24
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" class=""><div class="WordSection1"><div class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">That was the misstatement. “Most nations don’t have a US-style First Amendment” would have been true.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></a></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Rebecca Tushnet<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Georgetown Law<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">703 593 6759<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class=""><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in" class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=""> Paul McGrady [<a href="mailto:policy@paulmcgrady.com" class="">mailto:policy@paulmcgrady.com</a>]
<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b> Thursday, September 29, 2016 11:29 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b> Rebecca Tushnet<br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" class="">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> RE: [gnso-rpm-wg] "free speech"<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Hi Rebecca,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">What was the misstatement you are trying to correct? The most related statement that I could find in the Transcript was J. Scott who said “very few jurisdictions in the
world have free speech.” I didn’t see anyone who said “Most nations don’t have a US-style First Amendment.” In fact, I didn’t see a single reference to the First Amendment in the transcript.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Regards,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Paul<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Paul D. McGrady, Jr.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><a href="mailto:policy@paulmcgrady.com" class="">policy@paulmcgrady.com</a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class=""><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in" class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" class="">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" class="">mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Rebecca Tushnet<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 28, 2016 12:35 PM<br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" class="">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> [gnso-rpm-wg] "free speech"<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Just to correct a misstatement on the call earlier: Most nations don’t have a US-style First Amendment. Most nations with a rule of law do, however, recognize
freedom of speech in some form, including the right to criticize private companies. As this Wikipedia entry notes,
</span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country</span></a><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">,
implementation can be inconsistent on the ground, but I expect that inconsistent enforcement of trademark rights on the ground doesn’t mean that trademark owners want ICANN to ignore the law on the books; freedom of speech is equally a principle worth honoring.
In addition, I don’t know how many countries whose nationals participate in the ICANN process have signed on to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which includes freedom of speech,
</span><a href="http://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">http://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/</span></a><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">,
but I doubt we want to make policy based on the countries that don’t recognize any freedom of speech at all.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Also, you can’t have it both ways: if domain names can facilitate infringement, which they absolutely can, then they convey meaning; if they convey meaning,
they can also facilitate noninfringing conduct or affirmatively protected freedom of speech. It is just as true, or untrue, that a trademark owner can register a different string if it can’t have the one that it wants as it is that a person making fair or
otherwise noninfringing use can do so. This is especially so if we’ve given trademark owners the ability to jump the line in many circumstances. Freedom of speech principles may help tell us when preclusion of a domain name to a speaker—whether a trademark
owner or a non-owner—is of particular importance. That is, they can help us identify the important false positives (notifications generated in response to domain names that wouldn’t infringe).<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Rebecca Tushnet<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Georgetown Law<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">703 593 6759</span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class="" type="cite"><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div>
_______________________________________________
gnso-rpm-wg mailing list
<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" class="">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg" class="">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg</a></blockquote></span></div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">gnso-rpm-wg mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" class="">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br class="">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg</div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>