<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Jeffrey</div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">I agree. But I thought the free speech rights were raised in the context of the evidence showing the huge number of post-notification-non-registrations. That number raised the question to determine if the notification process and/or the notice was improperly discouraging registrations. </div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">As I see it the remit is to investigate and correct all potential errors adversely impacting all interested parties and not simply those which may adversely impact trademark holders. </div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">Am I mistaken?<br><br>Sincerely,<div>Paul Keating, Esq.</div></div><div><br>On Sep 30, 2016, at 12:35 PM, Jeff Neuman <<a href="mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com">jeff.neuman@comlaude.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I must admit that I am also confused about our discussions on this list about free speech. I still believe the general rule should
be that our job is to address actual problems that have arisen for which there is evidence of such a problem. So, if there is evidence that free speech has been stifled by the new RPMs, lets have that evidence pushed forward. But if there are just philosophical
or hypothetical arguments, I am confused as to why we are having them.<br>
<br>
My fear is that some may be taking this opportunity to re-argue the entire trademark protection mechanisms that we all negotiated in 2009-2012 (and beyond). I don’t believe that is in our remit.<o:p></o:p></span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#0F9347">Jeffrey J. Neuman</span></b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#0F9347">Senior Vice President </span></b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#4F4F4F">|</span><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#C39209">Valideus
USA</span></b><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#C32830">
</span></b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#4F4F4F">| </span><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#C32830">Com Laude USA</span></b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#4F4F4F">1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#4F4F4F">Mclean, VA 22102, United States<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#4F4F4F">E:
</span><a href="mailto:jeff.neuman@valideus.com"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#00B050">jeff.neuman@valideus.com</span></a><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#595959">
or </span><a href="mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#00B050">jeff.neuman@comlaude.com</span></a><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#00B050">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#4F4F4F">T: +1.703.635.7514<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#4F4F4F">M: +1.202.549.5079<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#4F4F4F">@Jintlaw<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Reg Levy<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 29, 2016 5:43 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Keating <<a href="mailto:Paul@law.es">Paul@law.es</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] "free speech"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">J. Scott said,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Trademark owners should not overreach, true. However, the terms you cite deserve no greater scrutiny than any other dictionary term. The TMCH has been around for approximately 18 months and I have seen no reporting that the marks registered
in the TMCH have severely hobbled free expression.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue",serif;color:black">And I agree. The challenge is coming up with a solution that neither allows trademark owners to be taken advantage of nor encourages overreach. “Apple” in all
TLDs needn’t be reserved or treated specially, but the TMCH does allow a trademark owner to buy it first. There are some instances where (police.london was a much-touted one) a trademark in conjunction with the TLD means something different enough that it
would make no sense to allow the trademark owner first rights. Those are a case-by-case issue.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue",serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue",serif;color:black">Are we:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<ol start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
looking to modify and/or validate the TMCH?<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
looking to supplement the TMCH with additional protection for trademark rights?<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
expand the TMCH to include non-trademark rights?<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We are having a very interesting and far-ranging conversation about free speech and the like, but I’m not clear on the focus that we should be maintaining.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Reg<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue",serif;color:black">Reg Levy<br>
VP Compliance + Policy | Minds + Machines Group Limited<br>
C: +1-310-963-7135<br>
S: RegLevy2<br>
<br>
Current UTC offset: -7<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 29 Sep 2016, at 08:46, Paul Keating <<a href="mailto:Paul@law.es">Paul@law.es</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">The term “free speech” itself is a false deity. It is all about the protections afforded to speech. While some jurisdictions may go further than others I think taking J.
Scott’s comment to mean “speech is not protected” would be a misrepresentation of the situation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Aside from “free speech” there is the closely related concept of fair use.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">And, finally, of course, trademark protection is limited in scope. It does not act to preclude use of the identical indicator for unrelated goods/services or for purposes
which are generic (meaning the thing or its essence) or descriptive (use in describing the thing).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I think it would serve us best to keep in mind the distinctions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Paul Keating<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>> on behalf of Rebecca Tushnet <<a href="mailto:rlt26@law.georgetown.edu">rlt26@law.georgetown.edu</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 5:31 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Paul McGrady <<a href="mailto:policy@paulmcgrady.com">policy@paulmcgrady.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] "free speech"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id="MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
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<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">That was the misstatement. “Most nations don’t have a US-style First Amendment” would have been true.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Rebecca Tushnet</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Georgetown Law</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">703 593 6759</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> Paul McGrady [<a href="mailto:policy@paulmcgrady.com">mailto:policy@paulmcgrady.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 29, 2016 11:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Rebecca Tushnet<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [gnso-rpm-wg] "free speech"</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Hi Rebecca,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">What was the misstatement you are trying to correct? The most related statement that I could find in the Transcript was J. Scott who said “very few jurisdictions in the world
have free speech.” I didn’t see anyone who said “Most nations don’t have a US-style First Amendment.” In fact, I didn’t see a single reference to the First Amendment in the transcript.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Paul</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Paul D. McGrady, Jr.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:policy@paulmcgrady.com">policy@paulmcgrady.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Rebecca Tushnet<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 28, 2016 12:35 PM<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [gnso-rpm-wg] "free speech"</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Just to correct a misstatement on the call earlier: Most nations don’t have a US-style First Amendment. Most nations with a rule of law do, however, recognize
freedom of speech in some form, including the right to criticize private companies. As this Wikipedia entry notes,
</span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">,
implementation can be inconsistent on the ground, but I expect that inconsistent enforcement of trademark rights on the ground doesn’t mean that trademark owners want ICANN to ignore the law on the books; freedom of speech is equally a principle worth honoring.
In addition, I don’t know how many countries whose nationals participate in the ICANN process have signed on to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which includes freedom of speech,
</span><a href="http://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">http://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">,
but I doubt we want to make policy based on the countries that don’t recognize any freedom of speech at all.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Also, you can’t have it both ways: if domain names can facilitate infringement, which they absolutely can, then they convey meaning; if they convey meaning, they
can also facilitate noninfringing conduct or affirmatively protected freedom of speech. It is just as true, or untrue, that a trademark owner can register a different string if it can’t have the one that it wants as it is that a person making fair or otherwise
noninfringing use can do so. This is especially so if we’ve given trademark owners the ability to jump the line in many circumstances. Freedom of speech principles may help tell us when preclusion of a domain name to a speaker—whether a trademark owner or
a non-owner—is of particular importance. That is, they can help us identify the important false positives (notifications generated in response to domain names that wouldn’t infringe).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Rebecca Tushnet</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Georgetown Law</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">703 593 6759</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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