<div>I agree with Georges that there is a linkage and that understanding the seemingly inconsistent approaches is helpful to this group. Ultimately this is a set of policies regardless of which WG is working on which piece.</div><div><br></div><div>On the other hand, I agree with Paul T. that this is not the place to debate the finer points of Whois policy. </div><div><br></div><div>But where would one discuss the cross-over issues between policies? This is certainly a right place for that.</div><div><br></div><div>Greg</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div>On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 10:35 AM Paul Tattersfield <<a href="mailto:gpmgroup@gmail.com">gpmgroup@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="gmail_msg">Adding issues outside the remit of this working group isn't helpful to the discussions of this working group. <br class="gmail_msg"><br class="gmail_msg">Joining
the WHOIS working group would be the best wayforward. The people who
want to keep the WHOIS open rather than make it more closed are
desperate for help.<br class="gmail_msg"><br class="gmail_msg"><a href="http://www.circleid.com/posts/20170324_loudmouths_wanted_for_icann_whois_replacement_work/" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">http://www.circleid.com/posts/20170324_loudmouths_wanted_for_icann_whois_replacement_work/</a><br class="gmail_msg"><br class="gmail_msg"><a href="https://community.icann.org/display/gTLDRDS/Next-Generation+gTLD+Registration+Directory+Services+to+Replace+Whois" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">https://community.icann.org/display/gTLDRDS/Next-Generation+gTLD+Registration+Directory+Services+to+Replace+Whois</a></div><div class="gmail_extra gmail_msg"><br class="gmail_msg"><div class="gmail_quote gmail_msg">On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 3:17 PM, Colin O'Brien <span class="gmail_msg"><<a href="mailto:colin@partridgepartnerspc.com" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">colin@partridgepartnerspc.com</a>></span> wrote:<br class="gmail_msg"><blockquote class="gmail_quote gmail_msg" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">+1 Georges<br class="gmail_msg">
<br class="gmail_msg">
Colin Thomas Jefferson O’Brien<br class="gmail_msg">
<br class="gmail_msg">
321 North Clark Street, Suite 720<br class="gmail_msg">
Chicago, Illinois 60654<br class="gmail_msg">
<a href="tel:312-634-9503" value="+13126349503" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">312-634-9503</a><br class="gmail_msg">
<a href="http://www.partridge.partners/" rel="noreferrer" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">http://www.partridge.partners/</a><br class="gmail_msg">
<span class="gmail_msg"><br class="gmail_msg">
<br class="gmail_msg">
-----Original Message-----<br class="gmail_msg">
From: <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>] On Behalf Of Nahitchevansky, Georges<br class="gmail_msg">
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 7:09 AM<br class="gmail_msg">
To: Paul Keating<br class="gmail_msg">
</span><div class="gmail_msg"><div class="m_-1319688667214561394h5 gmail_msg">Cc: <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br class="gmail_msg">
Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working Group call held earlier today<br class="gmail_msg">
<br class="gmail_msg">
Actually it touches on the point here. If you are going to make various arguments of alleged abuse in support of claimed transparency, then it would it is relevant to know whether you are supporting a lack of transparency in the whois side of things where abuse has been rampant. While the TMCH and Whois are different animals a number of the arguments being made here to support transparency have actually been mirrored in the other context and rejected by those seeking opacity. And one major difference between the two situations is that there is widespread evidence of abuse of the whois system whereas here in the TMCH context you do not have evidence of a widespread abuse of the TMCH by brand owners. Nevertheless, you and others persist on wanting to conduct a fishing expedition under the guise of so called "transparency" to try and find some alleged widespread harm that simply does not exist. To many folks on the other side of the aisle, it appears that this is not about transparency but more about some effort to gut existing protections and to obtain the release of confidential information of brand owners as to what they did or did not register. Perhaps this may not be the intent, but we all know that once that information is out the gaming will really begin. Again, perhaps there are tweeks that could be made to improve the current system, but there is no real basis for undertaking the broad review that is being sought and certainly not for undoing the entire existing system.<br class="gmail_msg">
<br class="gmail_msg">
<br class="gmail_msg">
Original Message<br class="gmail_msg">
From: Paul Keating<br class="gmail_msg">
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 6:33 PM<br class="gmail_msg">
To: Nahitchevansky, Georges<br class="gmail_msg">
Cc: J. Scott Evans; <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br class="gmail_msg">
Subject: Re: Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working Group call held earlier today<br class="gmail_msg">
<br class="gmail_msg">
George,<br class="gmail_msg">
<br class="gmail_msg">
You can always quote me. I say what I have said. I only ask that you quote me accurately. The discussion here is the TMCH database. Please let's stay on topic.<br class="gmail_msg">
<br class="gmail_msg">
Happy to discuss Whois separately.<br class="gmail_msg">
<br class="gmail_msg">
<br class="gmail_msg">
Sent from my iPad<br class="gmail_msg">
<br class="gmail_msg">
> On 12 Apr 2017, at 00:18, Nahitchevansky, Georges <<a href="mailto:ghn@kilpatricktownsend.com" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">ghn@kilpatricktownsend.com</a>> wrote:<br class="gmail_msg">
><br class="gmail_msg">
> Can I quote you in this on having an open and robust whois so we can<br class="gmail_msg">
> have across the board actual and real information on the parties<br class="gmail_msg">
> registering domain names and know who the bad actors are<br class="gmail_msg">
><br class="gmail_msg">
> Georges Nahitchevansky<br class="gmail_msg">
> Kilpatrick Townsend & Stockton LLP<br class="gmail_msg">
> The Grace Building | 1114 Avenue of the Americas | New York, NY<br class="gmail_msg">
> 10036-7703 office <a href="tel:212%20775%208720" value="+12127758720" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">212 775 8720</a> | fax <a href="tel:212%20775%208820" value="+12127758820" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">212 775 8820</a><br class="gmail_msg">
> <a href="mailto:ghn@kilpatricktownsend.com" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">ghn@kilpatricktownsend.com</a> | <a href="http://www.kilpatricktownsend.com" rel="noreferrer" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">www.kilpatricktownsend.com</a><br class="gmail_msg">
><br class="gmail_msg">
><br class="gmail_msg">
><br class="gmail_msg">
> -----Original Message-----<br class="gmail_msg">
> From: <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a><br class="gmail_msg">
> [mailto:<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>] On Behalf Of Paul Keating<br class="gmail_msg">
> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 5:58 PM<br class="gmail_msg">
> To: J. Scott Evans<br class="gmail_msg">
> Cc: <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br class="gmail_msg">
> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the<br class="gmail_msg">
> Working Group call held earlier today<br class="gmail_msg">
><br class="gmail_msg">
> It says at most which domains it wants pre-emptiness and notice rights over.<br class="gmail_msg">
><br class="gmail_msg">
> Hardly a confidential business secret. The information is a public record. And, After all the Information is instantly public the minute one pre-emptive sunrise registration is undertaken. The notice right is completely a non secret.<br class="gmail_msg">
><br class="gmail_msg">
> And hardly sufficient to use to hide bad actors.<br class="gmail_msg">
><br class="gmail_msg">
><br class="gmail_msg">
><br class="gmail_msg">
> Sent from my iPad<br class="gmail_msg">
><br class="gmail_msg">
>> On 11 Apr 2017, at 23:18, J. Scott Evans via gnso-rpm-wg <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>> wrote:<br class="gmail_msg">
>><br class="gmail_msg">
>> There is a big difference from a database that contains all a company’s registered marks and one that contains a culling for only those it deems most valuable for protection in the DNS. The former is clearly open for the public, the later is not.<br class="gmail_msg">
>><br class="gmail_msg">
>> J. Scott<br class="gmail_msg">
>><br class="gmail_msg">
>><br class="gmail_msg">
>> J. Scott Evans<br class="gmail_msg">
>> <a href="tel:408.536.5336" value="+14085365336" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">408.536.5336</a> (tel)<br class="gmail_msg">
>> 345 Park Avenue, Mail Stop W11-544<br class="gmail_msg">
>> Director, Associate General Counsel<br class="gmail_msg">
>> <a href="tel:408.709.6162" value="+14087096162" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">408.709.6162</a> (cell)<br class="gmail_msg">
>> San Jose, CA, 95110, USA<br class="gmail_msg">
>> Adobe. Make It an Experience.<br class="gmail_msg">
>> <a href="mailto:jsevans@adobe.com" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">jsevans@adobe.com</a><br class="gmail_msg">
>> <a href="http://www.adobe.com" rel="noreferrer" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">www.adobe.com</a><br class="gmail_msg">
>><br class="gmail_msg">
>><br class="gmail_msg">
>><br class="gmail_msg">
>><br class="gmail_msg">
>> On 4/11/17, 2:03 PM, "<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> on behalf of Jeremy Malcolm" <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> on behalf of <a href="mailto:jmalcolm@eff.org" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">jmalcolm@eff.org</a>> wrote:<br class="gmail_msg">
>><br class="gmail_msg">
>> On 11/4/17 9:43 am, J. Scott Evans via gnso-rpm-wg wrote:<br class="gmail_msg">
>>> George:<br class="gmail_msg">
>>><br class="gmail_msg">
>>> We have all followed this string. We understand that you and a few others believe there need to be wholesale changes to the Sunrise mechanism and the TMCH database (or at least the confidentiality of that data).<br class="gmail_msg">
>>><br class="gmail_msg">
>>> 1. Do you have a suggestion for how to improve the Sunrise mechanism?<br class="gmail_msg">
>>> 2. I see very little support for violating the confidentiality provisions of the TMCH contract.<br class="gmail_msg">
>><br class="gmail_msg">
>> FWIW I am also all for bringing the transparency of the TMCH database<br class="gmail_msg">
>> into line with those of national trademark registries so that its<br class="gmail_msg">
>> secrecy does not facilitate the kinds of abuses that George has<br class="gmail_msg">
>> uncovered. I have been an observer until now but I've just upgraded<br class="gmail_msg">
>> to member and plan to join the call tomorrow.<br class="gmail_msg">
>><br class="gmail_msg">
>> --<br class="gmail_msg">
>> Jeremy Malcolm<br class="gmail_msg">
>> Senior Global Policy Analyst<br class="gmail_msg">
>> Electronic Frontier Foundation<br class="gmail_msg">
>> <a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Feff" rel="noreferrer" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Feff</a>.<br class="gmail_msg">
>> org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C2528000b02f744c8d69a08d4811e3b81%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34<br class="gmail_msg">
>> 438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636275414221363260&sdata=FLU88IUnUq0DT<br class="gmail_msg">
>> ixWIhDAELHUtjhYZgxqHGr8ihACkQ8%3D&reserved=0<br class="gmail_msg">
>> <a href="mailto:jmalcolm@eff.org" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">jmalcolm@eff.org</a><br class="gmail_msg">
>><br class="gmail_msg">
>> Tel: <a href="tel:415.436.9333%20ext%20161" value="+14154369333" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">415.436.9333 ext 161</a><br class="gmail_msg">
>><br class="gmail_msg">
>> :: Defending Your Rights in the Digital World ::<br class="gmail_msg">
>><br class="gmail_msg">
>> Public key:<br class="gmail_msg">
</div></div><span class="gmail_msg">>> <a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww" rel="noreferrer" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww</a>.<br class="gmail_msg">
>> <a href="http://eff.org" rel="noreferrer" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">eff.org</a>%2Ffiles%2F2016%2F11%2F27%2Fkey_jmalcolm.txt&data=02%7C01%7C%7<br class="gmail_msg">
>> C2528000b02f744c8d69a08d4811e3b81%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%<br class="gmail_msg">
>> 7C0%7C0%7C636275414221373268&sdata=GzYW9x04IhxeW3HTyWRedWTpbiQQOrfZff<br class="gmail_msg">
</span>>> lAKXdh04M%3D&reserved=0 PGP fingerprint: 75D2 4C0D 35EA EA2F 8CA8<br class="gmail_msg">
<span class="m_-1319688667214561394im m_-1319688667214561394HOEnZb gmail_msg">>> 8F79 4911 EC4A EDDF 1122<br class="gmail_msg">
>><br class="gmail_msg">
>><br class="gmail_msg">
>><br class="gmail_msg">
>><br class="gmail_msg">
>> _______________________________________________<br class="gmail_msg">
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S: gsshatan<br>Phone-to-Skype: </span><font color="#000000" face="Arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.3333px">646-845-9428<br></span></font><a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;text-indent:0in" target="_blank"><span style="color:#1155cc">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</span></a></p><p style="font-size:12.8px;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>