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<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">All, Yesterday, we
have a fascinating discussion/not discussion of the
Recommendation below. In all events, it raised interesting
questions and ideas. Accordingly, this <b>Recommendation for
TMCH Charter Question #7 is hereby <u>withdrawn</u> from the
Working Group<i> </i></b>for review and editing. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Please join me in
submitting timely Recommendations and proposals, per the outline
of the Co-Chairs, on our TMCH Charter Questions.</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Best, Kathy</font><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/10/2017 10:28 AM, Kathy Kleiman
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:31fef274-727b-af0d-7873-cc7a863fff0f@kathykleiman.com"
type="cite">
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<p style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 136%" align="JUSTIFY"><font
color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3">All, </font></font></font> </p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 136%" align="JUSTIFY"><font
color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3">Clearly the Working Group is ready to move on to
Sunrise, TM Claims and Private Purposes, as am I. In an
effort to help us complete the current 16 TMCH Charter
Questions, I submit the recommendation below on Design
Marks for Question #7. In doing so, I am a) removing my
hat as Co-Chair and b) attempting to follow the outline
set out by Phil Corwin on 4/9 (below).</font></font></font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 136%" align="JUSTIFY"><font
color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3">Best, Kathy</font></font></font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 136%" align="JUSTIFY"><font
color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3">---------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
</font></font></font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 136%" align="JUSTIFY"><font
color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3"><b>I. Design Mark Recommendation for Working
Group - for Question #7 of TMCH Charter Questions<br>
</b></font></font></font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 136%" align="JUSTIFY"><font
color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3">A. Rationale for the proposal – Whereas:</font></font></font><font
color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3"><br>
</font></font></font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 136%" align="JUSTIFY"><font
color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3">1. The GNSO Council & ICANN Board-adopted
recommendations (based on the STI Final Report) were very
clear about the type of mark to be accepted by the
Trademark Clearinghouse: </font></font></font> </p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 136%" align="JUSTIFY"><font
color="#000000">“<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3">4.1 National or Multinational Registered Marks</font></font></font><font
color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3"> The TC Database should be required to include
nationally or multinationally registered “text mark”
trademarks, from</font></font></font><font color="#000000"><font
face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font size="3"> all
jurisdictions, (including countries where there is no
substantive review).”</font></font></font><font
color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://gnso.icann.org/en/issues/sti/sti-wt-recommendations-11dec09-en.pdf"><font
color="#000000"> </font>https://gnso.icann.org/en/issues/sti/sti-wt-recommendations-11dec09-en.pdf</a></font></font></font>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 136%" align="JUSTIFY"><font
color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3">2. The adopted recommendations were also very
clear about the Harm that the STI Group saw from putting
design marks into the TMCH Database:</font></font></font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 136%" align="JUSTIFY"><font
color="#000000">“<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3">[Also 4.1] (The trademarks to be included in</font></font></font><font
color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3"> the TC are text marks because “design marks”
provide protection for letters and words only within the
context</font></font></font><font color="#000000"><font
face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font size="3"> of their design
or logo and the STI was under a mandate not to expand
existing trademark rights.)</font></font></font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 136%" align="JUSTIFY"><font
color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3">3. The Applicant Guidebook adopted the same
strictures, namely: </font></font></font><font
color="#000000">“<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3">3.2:Standards for inclusion in the Clearinghouse
</font></font></font> </p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 136%" align="JUSTIFY"><font
color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3">3.2.1 Nationally or regionally registered</font></font></font><font
color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3"> word marks from all jurisdictions” See our WG
document “Selected TMCH Charter Questions compared with
AGB & other community-developed materials - 28 Feb
2017.docx” </font></font></font> </p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 136%" align="JUSTIFY"><font
color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3"><b>4. Nonetheless, </b><b>Deloitte is accepting
into the TMCH database design marks, figurative marks,
trademarks registered with wording that includes
designs, fonts and special lettering, colors, </b><span
style="font-style: normal"><b>and even disclaimers on
the underlying words of the trademark</b></span><b>,
provided the word(s) and/or letter(s) are readable and
extractable. Deloitte is extracting words and letters
from designs and other forms of logo, special lettering
and other transformations to put the unadorned words and
letters into the TMCH database. </b></font></font></font>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 136%" align="JUSTIFY"><font
color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3"><i>B. Harm from the Current Form</i></font></font></font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 136%" align="JUSTIFY"><font
color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3">The harm from this acceptance is that it gives
too much weight to a word or letters which received a
trademark – and gives too many rights to one trademark
owner over others in similar businesses, fields and
interests. Specifically, a design mark is protection
granted solely in conjunction with its design, logo,
lettering, patterns and/or colors (as examples). As
discussed above, the GNSO's Recommendations clearly felt
that such entry into the TMCH would be an unfair advantage
for one trademark owner over others in similar fields of
goods and services: “(The trademarks to be included in the
TC are text marks because “design marks” provide
protection for letters and words only within the context
of their design or logo and the STI was under a mandate
not to expand existing trademark rights.)” [TC is
Trademark Clearinghouse]</font></font></font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 136%" align="JUSTIFY"><font
color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3">In evaluating the harm of entry into the TMCH
database, this Working Group should consider the
discussion of the US Trademark Office on the subject of
design marks and disclaimers. In offering this material, I
do not submit it as global law (which is not), but as
persuasive in setting out the harms of favoring one
competitor over another when it comes to protecting the
most basic words of their profession or work: </font></font></font>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 136%" align="JUSTIFY"><font
color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3">**</font></font></font></p>
<p><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3">USPTO -
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.uspto.gov/trademark/laws-regulations/how-satisfy-disclaimer-requirement">https://www.uspto.gov/trademark/laws-regulations/how-satisfy-disclaimer-requirement</a></font></font></font></p>
<p><font color="#000000">“<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3">Some words and designs in a mark are not
registrable because they are needed by other
people/businesses to be able to describe their goods,
services, and/or business. A disclaimer in your
registration makes clear to others that they may use the
disclaimed terms without raising legal objections.</font></font></font></p>
<p><font color="#000000">“<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3">Typically, portions of a mark that are not
registrable and require a disclaimer are the following:</font></font></font></p>
<ul>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in"><strong><font color="#000000"><font
face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font size="3">Merely
Descriptive</font></font></font></strong><font
color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3"> Words/Designs: Words/designs that describe
your goods and/or services (CREAMY for yogurt; or a
realistic picture of a cue stick and eight ball for
billiard parlor services). </font></font></font> </p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in"><strong><font color="#000000"><font
face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font size="3">Laudatory
Words</font></font></font></strong><font
color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3"> that describe an alleged superior quality of
the goods and/or services<br>
(GREATEST OF ALL TIME for beer, or THE ULTIMATE for
beauty salon services) </font></font></font> </p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in"><strong><font color="#000000"><font
face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font size="3">Generic</font></font></font></strong><font
color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3"> Words/Designs: Words/designs that are the
common name of your goods and/or services (ASPIRIN for
pain relief medication; or a realistic picture of a
yo-yo for toys). </font></font></font> </p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in"><strong><font color="#000000"><font
face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font size="3">Geographic</font></font></font></strong><font
color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3"> Words/Designs: Words/designs that describe
the origin of your goods or the location where your
services are provided (VENICE for glassware from
Venice, Italy; or a realistic map of Canada for air
charter services originating from Canada). </font></font></font>
</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in"><strong><font color="#000000"><font
face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font size="3">Business
Type Designations</font></font></font></strong><font
color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3">: Designations that merely indicate
information about the type or structure of your
business, such as "Corporation," "Inc.," "Company,"
"Ltd.," "Bros." </font></font></font> </p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 136%"
align="JUSTIFY"><strong><font color="#000000"><font
face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font size="3">Informational
</font></font></font></strong><font color="#000000"><font
face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font size="3">Words: Words
that merely provide information about your goods,
services, or business, such as net weight, volume
statements, lists of contents, addresses and contact
information, and the year the business was
established.”</font></font></font></p>
</li>
</ul>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 136%" align="JUSTIFY"><font
color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3"> * * * </font></font></font> </p>
<font color="#000000">“<font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3">Descriptive, generic, geographic, or otherwise
unregistrable wording, designs, or symbols are needed by
other people/businesses to describe or market their goods
and/or services (in advertising, on the web, etc.) or to
convey a message. Additionally, businesses often include in
their mark business identifiers that others may need to use
to describe their businesses. Because these words and/or
designs need to be used by others, they should not become
the proprietary domain of any one party and must be
disclaimed.”</font></font></font>
<ol start="100" type="I">
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 136%"
align="JUSTIFY"><i><b><font color="#000000"><font
face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font size="3">Recommendation</font></font></font></b></i></p>
</li>
</ol>
<i><b> </b></i>
<ol>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 136%"
align="JUSTIFY"><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
sans-serif"><font size="3">In the interest of the
fairness and balance sought by the original GNSO
Council and Board-adopted recommendations and
hopefully by this Working Group as well, the Working
Group should require that Deloitte (and any future
providers of TMCH verification services) accept only
trademarks registered as “word marks” per se into the
TMCH database – not words, characters and numbers
extracted from design marks, transformative,
figurative marks and other trademarks from amidst with
patterns, logos, special lettering, colors and/or
other design, pattern and lettering aspects and
features.</font></font></font></p>
</li>
</ol>
<ol start="2">
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 136%"
align="JUSTIFY"><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri,
sans-serif"><font size="3">Timing [Note: this is a
proposal for our WG]: In fairness to the current
registrants of such marks, the Working Group
recommends that current registration continue in the
TMCH Database for a period of no longer than a year –
to be canceled during the normal review of TMCH
registrations which we understand Deloitte conducts on
an annual basis.</font></font></font></p>
</li>
<li><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><font
size="3"> We urge Deloitte to bring to the Working Group
any questions regarding this policy so that the Working
Group can facilitate a discussion of rules consistent
with this recommendation. </font></font></font> </li>
</ol>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/9/2017 11:50 AM, Phil Corwin
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Some
excellent comments on this thread.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">It’s
not clear to me whether it’s the Board’s policy to require
new gTLD registries to offer both a sunrise registration
period and a claims notice period of at least 90 days, or
a staff implementation decision, but that’s probably not
the most important consideration now given that it was the
standard practice for the first round. Jon has identified
an issue that might have fallen through the cracks
otherwise since it is about the relationship between the
two TMCH-based RPMs rather than their separate operation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If
there is indeed sentiment to consider modifying that
requirement, but if there is also some consensus that the
availability of sunrise is more important for TM holders,
then a proposal to simply substitute “or” for “and” may
not be viable because that would leave the possibility
that some new gTLDs in subsequent rounds would choose TM
Claims and have no Sunrise period. So maybe a more nuanced
approach would be to require Sunrise but leave Claims as a
voluntary option. But that could mean no generation of TM
Claims at many gTLDs in subsequent rounds.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Please
understand that I am not advocating this change, just
thinking out loud about the considerations that would come
into play if any change was contemplated.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Here’s
how this co-chair would hope our internal decision process
plays out on this or any other policy/implementation
matter:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">A
proponent of making a change to present policy and
practice should articulate the rationale for the proposal
and the benefits expected to flow from its adoption.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
proponent should also be candid about what costs or
burdens might be imposed on various parties if it is
adopted and explain why those costs are outweighed by the
envisioned benefits.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If
an adopted change would not be self-executing but would
require significant implementation details then the
proponent should at least explain the basics how that
would be practically effected.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
believe that if proponents of making a change follow those
suggestions it will set the stage for at least a fully
informed debate and subsequent decisionmaking.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hope
that is helpful.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Best
regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Philip
S. Corwin, Founding Principal</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Virtualaw
LLC</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">1155
F Street, NW</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Suite
1050</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Washington,
DC 20004</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">202-559-8597/Direct</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">202-559-8750/Fax</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">202-255-6172/Cell</span></b><b><span
style="color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Twitter:
@VlawDC</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">"Luck
is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey</span></i></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul McGrady<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, April 09, 2017 10:57 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Kathy Kleiman'; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] [Renamed] Or or And<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks
Kathy.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
think if we were going to ask the Board to undo their
standing policy of “and” we would need a good reason and I
haven’t seen any emerge on this list. The more we tinker
with what is not broken, the more we risk not only
bringing Phase 1 to a halt, but having to reopen the issue
of the separation of Phase 2. I don’t think we could get
buy-in from the consumer protection community to go along
with “or” in Phase 1 if there is any chance that the UDRP
will be weakened in Phase 2. Hopefully, we can do what
Phil suggested in his recent posts and look to incremental
improvements, rather than sea changes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kathy Kleiman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, April 09, 2017 9:21 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [gnso-rpm-wg] [Renamed] Or or And<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>I think Jon raises an important point. The recommendations
of the STI (as adopted by the GNSO Council and the ICANN
Board) were for the New gTLD Registry to choose between a
Sunrise Period OR the 90 day TM Claims Notice -- "at
registry discretion" (as Jon notes below).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Is this something we should make a note to review -- and
accordingly pass on as a question to the Sunrise Period and
TM Claims Subgroups: is the right conjunction "or" or
"and"? Should we return to the policy of allowing
registries to choose Sunrise Period OR TM Claims for their
roll-outs and would that provide a more balanced set of
protections? <i>Not a question to be debated now, </i>but
one we might to queue up for the discussions ahead. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>(Cue the music for Conjunction Junction from Schoolhouse
Rock for those from that generation...)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Best, Kathy<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 4/6/2017 3:46 PM, Jon Nevett wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>Michael, This is very helpful perspective. The 2012 round was supposed to require either sunrise or claims at registry discretion. Late in the process, ICANN staff changed it to require both sunrise and claims. Based on your email and your IP perspective, is it fair to assume that sunrise is the much more important RPM between the two? Thanks. Jon<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>On Apr 6, 2017, at 2:56 PM, Michael Graham (ELCA) <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:migraham@expedia.com"><migraham@expedia.com></a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>From my point of view as a) an IP attorney generally and b) in-house counsel for Expedia, Inc., Sunrise is an essential part of the RPMs in order to ensure that the New gTLD program will provide the benefits it was intended to provide (Increasing Consumer Choice, Consumer Trust and Competition on the Internet) without unduly burdening either individuals or entities, or threatening any of their rights (be they privacy or intellectual property or expression). In regard to the use of Sunrise "preemption" by trademark owners, as indicated in the TMCH study, it is being used in a more limited manner than many presumed would be the case. Contrary to George's fears, for example, it seems clear from the study that Sunrise is not being used by trademark owners to monopolize generic terms. Nor is there any empirical evidence that it has had any negative effect on non-trademark owner registrants or applicants.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre> As to points 1 and 2:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre> 1: We have learned that there are sufficient numbers of either bad or uninformed (i.e. do not take the time to search to determine whether a term is a registered trademark) actors that we cannot rely on their declaration, and<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>2: Despite the success of the UDRP, forcing trademark owners to rely on UDRPs alone is a costly, time-consuming process that fails to satisfy the New gTLD program's charter -- it does not further any of the goals of the New gTLD system.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre> In considering RPMs and the Application/Registration/DNS itself I think we need to always step back to consider: who benefits from and who is burdened by the various RPMs or their lack, and what is the cost and benefit to users/registrants/society. I raise this because it seems to me that personal profit motives have too often distorted and should not play as large a role in policy decisions as other types of considerations should.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Michael R. Graham<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>MICHAEL R. GRAHAM<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>SENIOR CORPORATE COUNSEL<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>GLOBAL DIRECTOR, INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Expedia Legal & Corporate Affairs<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>T +1 425.679.4330 | F +1 425.679.7251<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>M +1 425.241.1459<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Expedia, Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>333 108th Avenue NE | Bellevue | WA 98004<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:MiGraham@Expedia.com">MiGraham@Expedia.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>From: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>] On Behalf Of George Kirikos<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2017 11:21 AM<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>To: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working Group call held earlier today<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Hi folks,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 11:55 AM, J. Scott Evans <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jsevans@adobe.com"><jsevans@adobe.com></a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>Let’s all pause here. It seems that George and those in his “camp” believe that (and feel free to correct me if I am wrong) that Sunrise is not balanced (or “unfair”) because it gives the owner of a trademark a preemptive veto to us of the domain, even for non-infringing uses. If that is the case, could we not require the registrars to have a policy for allowing a third party with a legitimate use to get the string subject to the Sunrise registration provided they make a case that their use is non-infringing. Of course, any such process would require the third party to agree that if the use became infringing that the owner of the original Sunrise could take back the domain. If we could come up with this type system (which I believe Donuts uses in its DPML system) wouldn’t that get to the root of the concern (that is, provided I have accurately articulated the concern).<o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>We don't have to "come up with this type of system" -- killing the Sunrise period would achieve this *today*, because:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>(1) The domain name registration agreement *already* mandates the above. See Section 3.7.7.9 of:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/approved-with-specs-2013-09-17-en">https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/approved-with-specs-2013-09-17-en</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>"3.7.7.9 The Registered Name Holder shall represent that, to the best of the Registered Name Holder's knowledge and belief, neither the registration of the Registered Name nor the manner in which it is directly or indirectly used infringes the legal rights of any third party."<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>unless you're suggesting that each prospective registrant needs to provide more than that representation to "make a case" (in your words). Fees for domain name registrations would have to go up considerably, and registrars would need a process to vet who is "worthy" and who is illegitimate, and presumably a challenge/appeal mechanism for that vetting too?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>and,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>(2) As for "Of course, any such process would require the third party to agree that if the use became infringing that the owner of the original Sunrise could take back the domain" --- we already have something called the UDRP for that, or the courts, which every registrant agrees to as well, so that any TM owner (TMCH recordal or<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>not) can challenge alleged misuse of a domain name.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>George Kirikos<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>416-588-0269<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.leap.com/">http://www.leap.com/</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>gnso-rpm-wg mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>gnso-rpm-wg mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>gnso-rpm-wg mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
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