<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><div>Georges,</div><div><br></div><div>Sorry but I have read them very carefully. All I have seen are assertions but never evidence. And, as noted by Mr. Kirkos, the evidence of contractual restriction is directly contradicted by the language of their own TOS. </div><div><br></div><div> I include the following which was just published by Mary at ICANN. Please let me know where this supports a conclusion that this WG – tasked as we are tasked – are prohibited from seeing a list of the actual trademarks in the TMCH together with their respective basis for registration.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"><div style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span> Georges Nahitchevansky <<a href="mailto:ghn@kilpatricktownsend.com">ghn@kilpatricktownsend.com</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span> Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 7:26 PM<br><span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span> Paul Keating <<a href="mailto:paul@law.es">paul@law.es</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span> "J. Scott Evans" <<a href="mailto:jsevans@adobe.com">jsevans@adobe.com</a>>, Bret Fausett <<a href="mailto:bret@uniregistry.com">bret@uniregistry.com</a>>, "<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span> RE: [gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working Group call held earlier today<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote id="MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style="BORDER-LEFT: #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;"><div xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Paul:<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></a></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">With all due respect, you are just wrong on that point. I and others have responded to the alleged “evidence.” Go back and read all of the prior emails.
What evidence exists is that at most a speculator gamed the system with some filings, but not any evidence of widespread or systematic abuse of the TMCH by brand owners. I guess it’s like the old political trick that if you repeat something that’s not true
enough times, then folks will ultimately assume such is a fact. Now we can go over all of this yet again, but I think that this is not productive. If anything has been discredited, it is the insistence by you and others that there is a grand pattern of abuse
by trademark owners. Many have suggested that we focus on a fix/tweek to the system to address the speculator issue and the remedy of sunrise challenges. I support such, but going on a fishing expedition with you on flimsy evidence is something that neither
I nor others are willing to do. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"> Paul Keating [<a href="mailto:paul@law.es">mailto:paul@law.es</a>]
<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 13, 2017 1:11 PM<br><b>To:</b> Nahitchevansky, Georges<br><b>Cc:</b> J. Scott Evans; Bret Fausett; <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working Group call held earlier today<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">You keep referencing prior articulations.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal">"(<span style="color:black">for the reasons that have already been articulated extensively over the past several days)"</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal">I hae not seen anything but assertions that have been completely discredited by the actual evidence. Care to articulate?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On 13 Apr 2017, at 18:23, Nahitchevansky, Georges <<a href="mailto:ghn@kilpatricktownsend.com">ghn@kilpatricktownsend.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I likewise agree. If the goal is to give the aggrieved party a bona fide remedy, then there should be no issue. The alleged abuse could be challenged just
like tm owners can challenge alleged bogus and infringing domain names (as J.S has said). I would support such a fix in the system. But beyond that I see no need of opening the TMCH database (for the reasons that have already been articulated extensively
over the past several days) </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"><a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>J. Scott Evans via gnso-rpm-wg<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 13, 2017 12:08 PM<br><b>To:</b> Bret Fausett; <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working Group call held earlier today</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Agreed. Obtaining the domain is the goal and the system should be designed to allow an aggrieved party to achieve that goal.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="100%" style="width:100.0%;border:none;border-top:solid #6A737B 1.0pt"><tbody><tr><td width="54" style="width:32.25pt;border:none;padding:0in 15.75pt 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><image001.gif></span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width="725" valign="bottom" style="width:435.0pt;border:none;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="959" style="width:575.25pt"><tbody><tr><td width="299" valign="bottom" style="width:179.25pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">J. Scott Evans</span></b><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width="255" valign="bottom" style="width:153.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">408.536.5336 (tel)</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width="405" valign="bottom" style="width:243.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">345 Park Avenue, Mail Stop W11-544</span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td width="299" valign="bottom" style="width:179.25pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Director, Associate General Counsel</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width="255" valign="bottom" style="width:153.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">408.709.6162 (cell)</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width="405" valign="bottom" style="width:243.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">San Jose, CA, 95110, USA</span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td width="299" valign="bottom" style="width:179.25pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Adobe. Make It an Experience.</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width="255" valign="bottom" style="width:153.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><a href="mailto:jsevans@adobe.com">jsevans@adobe.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width="405" valign="bottom" style="width:243.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><a href="http://www.adobe.com">www.adobe.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></tbody></table></td><td valign="bottom" style="border:none;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" style="border:none;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></tbody></table></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">From:
</span></b><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>> on behalf of Bret Fausett <<a href="mailto:bret@uniregistry.com">bret@uniregistry.com</a>><br><b>Date: </b>Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 9:05 AM<br><b>To: </b>"<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working Group call held earlier today</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">You’ll get no quarrel from me on imposing a cost. There are real costs involved for the companies that are required to review and adjudicate these disputes, so those costs should be reimbursed. I think challengers would be fine with the
costs if the rewards were adjusted to ensure they had a better outcome (the domain in question). If they don’t get the domain at the end of the process, we are just counting on them to be working for the public good. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> Bret<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p><div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Apr 13, 2017, at 9:00 AM, J. Scott Evans <<a href="mailto:jsevans@adobe.com">jsevans@adobe.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">First, if a person challenges a Sunrise Registration at the registry and wins, they should be awarded the domain name. Why is it the cost of obtaining
a domain name from a bad-faith Sunrise registrant gets everyone up in arms, but the enormous cost of preventing fraud and consumer confusion borne by trademark owners is seen as “just the cost of doing business in the online world”? I am all for finding cost-effective
mechanism for a good faith registrant to obtain a domain name the was improperly registered under Sunrise, but there is going to be a cost.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">J. Scott</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="100%" style="width:100.0%;border:none;border-top:solid #6A737B 1.0pt"><tbody><tr><td width="54" style="width:32.25pt;border:none;padding:0in 15.75pt 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><image001.gif></span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width="725" valign="bottom" style="width:435.0pt;border:none;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="959" style="width:575.25pt"><tbody><tr><td width="299" valign="bottom" style="width:179.25pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">J. Scott Evans</span></b><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width="255" valign="bottom" style="width:153.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">408.536.5336 (tel)</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width="405" valign="bottom" style="width:243.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">345 Park Avenue, Mail Stop W11-544</span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td width="299" valign="bottom" style="width:179.25pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Director, Associate General Counsel</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width="255" valign="bottom" style="width:153.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">408.709.6162 (cell)</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width="405" valign="bottom" style="width:243.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">San Jose, CA, 95110, USA</span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td width="299" valign="bottom" style="width:179.25pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Adobe. Make It an Experience.</span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width="255" valign="bottom" style="width:153.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a href="mailto:jsevans@adobe.com"><span style="color:purple">jsevans@adobe.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width="405" valign="bottom" style="width:243.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a href="http://www.adobe.com/"><span style="color:purple">www.adobe.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></tbody></table></td><td valign="bottom" style="border:none;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" style="border:none;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">From:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>>
on behalf of Bret Fausett <<a href="mailto:bret@uniregistry.com">bret@uniregistry.com</a>><br><b>Date:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 8:55 AM<br><b>To:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>"<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>><br><b>Subject:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working Group call held earlier today</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">to the extent there are issues with the bona fides of individual registrations, the underlying trademark registration, and its recordal in the TMCH
(www.trademark‑</span><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fclearinghouse.com%2Fdispute&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cd34c513ef31a415c792b08d482858b3f%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636276957460088884&sdata=XBslWFTeBK1aE23jA09owCwmDa7iiVCRfvuev0%2FVVhU%3D&reserved=0"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: purple;">clearinghouse.com/dispute</span></a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">)
are already subject to challenge. Would you be able to help this group understand why you view these as insufficient measures?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">I think any challenge mechanism that relies on good samaritans for enforcement is insufficient. <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">If I am pre-empted in my registration of “internet.TLD” or “online.TLD,” because someone had registered them in sunrise with “marks” that should not have been approved, my options at that point are to file a TMCH
dispute, which costs at least $200 and will last for at least a month. At the end of that process, even if I am right, the trademark is marked as invalid, but I don’t get the domain name that I was blocked from registering. <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">If I want to file a sunrise challenge with the registry, depending on the registry’s policy, I may be awarded the domain name, but I am not guaranteed to be awarded the domain name. Those processes also take time
and money. <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">So it really takes a determined individual or company, with time and money, to pursue these challenges. <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">If I were adjusting these processes for Round 2, I would give the complainant a presumptive right to register the challenged domains if and after the TMCH registration was deemed invalid. That would provide better
motivation to pursue the existing remedies.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"> - Bret<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><hr size="3" width="100%" align="center"></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black;"><br>
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