<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I'll reiterate my earlier statement that we have to have a common understanding of what we mean by gaming/abuse before we investigate whatever it is.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I don't see how "what" the mark is, without any indication of "who" owns it, is any indicator of gaming/abuse. Here's an example:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">"Carnation" is the name of a very common flower (and a "dictionary word"). CARNATION has been a U.S. registered trademark for condensed milk and related products since 1916 (not counting an even earlier registration for CARNATION BRAND dating back to 1900, the drawing for which consists of the word in a stylized form (script), along with a separate design). </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">How would seeing CARNATION on the TMCH list (or the name of any other common object), without any other information, help with an investigation into gaming/abuse?</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></p><div><p style="text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:12.8px"><a name="UNIQUE_ID_SafeHtmlFilter_UNIQUE_ID_SafeHtmlFilter__GoBack"></a></span><b style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#002e62">Greg
Shatan<br>
</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">C: 917-816-6428<br>
S: gsshatan<br>Phone-to-Skype: </span><font color="#000000" face="Arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.3333px">646-845-9428<br></span></font><a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;text-indent:0in" target="_blank"><span style="color:#1155cc">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</span></a></p><p style="font-size:12.8px;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 2:27 PM, Beckham, Brian <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:brian.beckham@wipo.int" target="_blank">brian.beckham@wipo.int</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="m_5819962689638354407WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Paul,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Without intending to shortcut this discussion, or to censor your request, there seems to be a fairly widespread recognition within this working group that there has been some
gaming (even if arguably very minimal, given the sunrise registration numbers) by speculators of the TMCH and Sunrise in combination (just as there is recognition that there will be gaming of any system).
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">If you agree that the working group has basically conceded this point, merely for your consideration: Bret and J Scott have put a rough solution on the table; would a more
judicious use of our collective time and energy be to look at this, and ways to address your concerns, whatever they may be?
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Kind regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Brian<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@<wbr>icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Keating<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 13, 2017 8:09 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nahitchevansky, Georges; Marie Pattullo; 'Brian Scarpelli'</span></p><div><div class="h5"><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working Group call held earlier today<u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Georges and Marie,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I'm Sorry but you are rather missing the point.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">The point is
<u>not</u> to see <u>who</u> filed marks with the TMCH.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">The point is to see
<b>what</b> marks were registered with the TMCH and the basis for acceptance.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">The list clearly shows the type of marks included and the basis for their inclusion. This in turn allows a determination as to whether or not the corresponding domain was registered in sunrise
or not. This in turn allows the WG to find out the extent to which the TMCH is being abused so as to allow sunrise registrations that should not be permitted. It can also be cross-referenced against theist-sunrise notifications.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Again, our task is to assess whether what exists is fit for purpose or not. If not, we are able to provide recommendations. It is possible that the TMCH is being abused and that as it stands
is not fit for purpose. I am not so prejudiced to presume that there is no gaming. However, I am not predisposed to find abuse or to request changes to the existing system. I DO want to know. And, I am suspicious of those who resist a reasonable claim
for transparency.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I also understand that while some have
<b><i>argued</i></b> that the information is confidential, I have not seen any contractual or legal provision granting it that status. Argument is not evidence. If the information was submitted per contract that did not protect confidentiality then there
is frankly no basis to make such an argument now – has it not been waived? . And, of course, I don’t think we need all of the data points on the list.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Georges Nahitchevansky <<a href="mailto:ghn@kilpatricktownsend.com" target="_blank">ghn@kilpatricktownsend.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 5:50 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Marie Pattullo <<a href="mailto:marie.pattullo@aim.be" target="_blank">marie.pattullo@aim.be</a>>, Paul Keating <<a href="mailto:paul@law.es" target="_blank">paul@law.es</a>>, 'Brian Scarpelli' <<a href="mailto:BScarpelli@actonline.org" target="_blank">BScarpelli@actonline.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working Group call held earlier today<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #b5c4df 4.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id="m_5819962689638354407MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_5819962689638354407__MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">+1 GN</span></a><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray"><br>
<br>
<br>
</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">
<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@<wbr>icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Marie Pattullo<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 13, 2017 10:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Paul Keating'; 'Brian Scarpelli'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working Group call held earlier today</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Brand holders have repeatedly explained why the data in the TMCH is confidential, Paul. Access to that data won’t show you the “abuse” you
believe you may find: it will simply show you a list of the marks that a brand owner has paid to record in the TMCH. Why do you want to know that, please? That list doesn’t show you any form of abusive, or benign, behaviour – it’s a list.</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The (small) Sunrise take-up provides no evidence of mass abusive registration. So that leaves “abuse” in the Claims Notices, but those Notices
don’t allow the TM owner to be abusive either – they’re just a heads up. </span>
<span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">So with respect, I simply don’t understand your repeated claims that you need access to this data to find “abuse”. In cases where there are
questionable base marks, there are cancellation proceedings before IPOs. There are means to dispute a Sunrise allocation. Receiving a Claims Notice doesn’t stop you registering a DN. And taking a case in bad faith, or against bad faith, is always an option.</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">It is of course your right to believe that you should have access to the commercial strategy of brand holders; you’ll forgive me for believing
the contrary.</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Kind regards</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Marie</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@<wbr>icann.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@<wbr>icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Keating<br>
<b>Sent:</b> jeudi 13 avril 2017 16:22<br>
<b>To:</b> Brian Scarpelli<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working Group call held earlier today</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">George and Brian,</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_5819962689638354407AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_5819962689638354407AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">You seem to have an agenda. And thou protest too much. </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_5819962689638354407AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_5819962689638354407AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Our collective task is to investigate and make recommendations. It isn't possible to do either if denied access to I formation. </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_5819962689638354407AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_5819962689638354407AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Regarding TMCH I only ask for a list of the mark's under registration. This is to see IF there has been abuse and IF SO then whether it reaches to the level of requiring corrective action. </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_5819962689638354407AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_5819962689638354407AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">I am not certain if anything beyond the mark's is necessary. </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_5819962689638354407AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_5819962689638354407AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">I repeatedly hear that the TMCH is confidential. I have not seen anything to support such a claim. The terms provided by George showed no basis for a privacy expectation.</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_5819962689638354407AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_5819962689638354407AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">If the list of the mark's in the TMCH database shows no abuse I will join the obvious majority to recommend no corrective action. For you surely cannot believe that this group would support changes
in the absence of abuse. </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_5819962689638354407AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_5819962689638354407AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Conversely if abuse is shown and the abuse is serious enough to warrant corrective action I trust you will join with me I crafting an appropriate solution. </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_5819962689638354407AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_5819962689638354407AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">What is required is a list of marks and the basis for submission. I am not at all sure how the registrant ID would be relevant. Hence I have no understanding how it could be confidential. Thus I have
no idea what you are trying so hard to hide. But will tell you that the harder you try the more I will be interested in investigating. </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_5819962689638354407AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_5819962689638354407AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Whois is a completely separate issue with vastly different privacy concerns. I am happy to address the WHOIS and the TMCH issues within their respective WGs. </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_5819962689638354407AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_5819962689638354407AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"><br>
Sincerely,</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Paul Keating, Esq.</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"><br>
On Apr 13, 2017, at 1:26 PM, Brian Scarpelli <<a href="mailto:BScarpelli@actonline.org" target="_blank">BScarpelli@actonline.org</a>> wrote:</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">+1, I also agree.</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">
<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"League Gothic";color:black">Brian Scarpelli</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"League Gothic";color:black"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@<wbr>icann.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@<wbr>icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Scott Austin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 12, 2017 12:46 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nahitchevansky, Georges <<a href="mailto:ghn@kilpatricktownsend.com" target="_blank">ghn@kilpatricktownsend.com</a>>; Paul Keating <<a href="mailto:paul@law.es" target="_blank">paul@law.es</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working Group call held earlier today</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">+1 Georges. Opacity, well put. Transparency as subterfuge, what a concept.<br>
<br>
-------- Original Message --------<br>
From: "Nahitchevansky, Georges" <<a href="mailto:ghn@kilpatricktownsend.com" target="_blank">ghn@kilpatricktownsend.com</a>><br>
Date: Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 8:08 AM<br>
To: Paul Keating <<a href="mailto:paul@law.es" target="_blank">paul@law.es</a>><br>
CC: <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working Group call held earlier today</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">Actually it touches on the point here. If you are going to make various arguments of alleged abuse in support of claimed transparency, then it would it is relevant to know whether
you are supporting a lack of transparency in the whois side of things where abuse has been rampant. While the TMCH and Whois are different animals a number of the arguments being made here to support transparency have actually been mirrored in the other context
and rejected by those seeking opacity. And one major difference between the two situations is that there is widespread evidence of abuse of the whois system whereas here in the TMCH context you do not have evidence of a widespread abuse of the TMCH by brand
owners. Nevertheless, you and others persist on wanting to conduct a fishing expedition under the guise of so called "transparency" to try and find some alleged widespread harm that simply does not exist. To many folks on the other side of the aisle, it appears
that this is not about transparency but more about some effort to gut existing protections and to obtain the release of confidential information of brand owners as to what they did or did not register. Perhaps this may not be the intent, but we all know
that once that information is out the gaming will really begin. Again, perhaps there are tweeks that could be made to improve the current system, but there is no real basis for undertaking the broad review that is being sought and certainly not for undoing
the entire existing system.<br>
<br>
<br>
Original Message <br>
From: Paul Keating<br>
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 6:33 PM<br>
To: Nahitchevansky, Georges<br>
Cc: J. Scott Evans; </span><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"><a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</span></a></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"><br>
Subject: Re: Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working Group call held earlier today<br>
<br>
George,<br>
<br>
You can always quote me. I say what I have said. I only ask that you quote me accurately. The discussion here is the TMCH database. Please let's stay on topic.
<br>
<br>
Happy to discuss Whois separately. <br>
<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad<br>
<br>
> On 12 Apr 2017, at 00:18, Nahitchevansky, Georges <</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"><a href="mailto:ghn@kilpatricktownsend.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">ghn@kilpatricktownsend.com</span></a></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">>
wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Can I quote you in this on having an open and robust whois so we can have across the board actual and real information on the parties registering domain names and know who the bad actors are<br>
> <br>
> Georges Nahitchevansky<br>
> Kilpatrick Townsend & Stockton LLP<br>
> The Grace Building | 1114 Avenue of the Americas | New York, NY 10036-7703<br>
> office <a href="tel:(212)%20775-8720" value="+12127758720" target="_blank">212 775 8720</a> | fax <a href="tel:(212)%20775-8820" value="+12127758820" target="_blank">212 775 8820</a><br>
> </span><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"><a href="mailto:ghn@kilpatricktownsend.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">ghn@kilpatricktownsend.com</span></a></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> |
</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"><a href="https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https://www.kilpatricktownsend.com&c=E,1,kgJUlMQkaC7zcn6Rs66Ti2At9D_Ui1TtDyL3pG1zG__KTS7tVBHLK8dmlR-Js0Y7uaJnKxz_Zkc5RY8ItO8pCAXh9h_yFUPJgf2JB9nUCVpnQzK0&typo=1" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">https://linkprotect.cudasvc.<wbr>com/url?a=https://www.<wbr>kilpatricktownsend.com&c=E,1,<wbr>kgJUlMQkaC7zcn6Rs66Ti2At9D_<wbr>Ui1TtDyL3pG1zG__<wbr>KTS7tVBHLK8dmlR-Js0Y7uaJnKxz_<wbr>Zkc5RY8ItO8pCAXh9h_<wbr>yFUPJgf2JB9nUCVpnQzK0&typo=1</span></a></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"><br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: </span><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"><a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</span></a></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> [</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"><a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@<wbr>icann.org</span></a></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">]
On Behalf Of Paul Keating<br>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 5:58 PM<br>
> To: J. Scott Evans<br>
> Cc: </span><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"><a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</span></a></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"><br>
> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Action Items, Slides and Notes from the Working Group call held earlier today<br>
> <br>
> It says at most which domains it wants pre-emptiness and notice rights over.<br>
> <br>
> Hardly a confidential business secret. The information is a public record. And, After all the Information is instantly public the minute one pre-emptive sunrise registration is undertaken. The notice right is completely a non secret.<br>
> <br>
> And hardly sufficient to use to hide bad actors.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Sent from my iPad<br>
> <br>
>> On 11 Apr 2017, at 23:18, J. Scott Evans via gnso-rpm-wg <</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"><a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</span></a></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">>
wrote:<br>
>> <br>
>> There is a big difference from a database that contains all a company’s registered marks and one that contains a culling for only those it deems most valuable for protection in the DNS. The former is clearly open for the public, the later is not.<br>
>> <br>
>> J. Scott<br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> J. Scott Evans<br>
>> <a href="tel:(408)%20536-5336" value="+14085365336" target="_blank">408.536.5336</a> (tel)<br>
>> 345 Park Avenue, Mail Stop W11-544<br>
>> Director, Associate General Counsel<br>
>> <a href="tel:(408)%20709-6162" value="+14087096162" target="_blank">408.709.6162</a> (cell)<br>
>> San Jose, CA, 95110, USA<br>
>> Adobe. Make It an Experience.<br>
>> </span><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"><a href="mailto:jsevans@adobe.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">jsevans@adobe.com</span></a></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"><br>
>> </span><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"><a href="http://www.adobe.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">www.adobe.com</span></a></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"><br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> On 4/11/17, 2:03 PM, "</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"><a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org%20on%20behalf%20of%20Jeremy%20Malcolm" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org on behalf of Jeremy Malcolm</span></a></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">"
<</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"><a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org%20on%20behalf%20of%20jmalcolm@eff.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org on behalf of jmalcolm@eff.org</span></a></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">>
wrote:<br>
>> <br>
>> On 11/4/17 9:43 am, J. Scott Evans via gnso-rpm-wg wrote:<br>
>>> George:<br>
>>> <br>
>>> We have all followed this string. We understand that you and a few others believe there need to be wholesale changes to the Sunrise mechanism and the TMCH database (or at least the confidentiality of that data).<br>
>>> <br>
>>> 1. Do you have a suggestion for how to improve the Sunrise mechanism?<br>
>>> 2. I see very little support for violating the confidentiality provisions of the TMCH contract.<br>
>> <br>
>> FWIW I am also all for bringing the transparency of the TMCH database<br>
>> into line with those of national trademark registries so that its<br>
>> secrecy does not facilitate the kinds of abuses that George has<br>
>> uncovered. I have been an observer until now but I've just upgraded to<br>
>> member and plan to join the call tomorrow.<br>
>> <br>
>> --<br>
>> Jeremy Malcolm<br>
>> Senior Global Policy Analyst<br>
>> Electronic Frontier Foundation<br>
>> </span><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Feff.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7C2528000b02f744c8d69a08d4811e3b81%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636275414221363260&sdata=FLU88IUnUq0DTixWIhDAELHUtjhYZgxqHGr8ihACkQ8%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">https://na01.safelinks.<wbr>protection.outlook.com/?url=<wbr>https%3A%2F%2Feff.org&data=02%<wbr>7C01%7C%<wbr>7C2528000b02f744c8d69a08d4811e<wbr>3b81%<wbr>7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de<wbr>cee1%7C0%7C0%<wbr>7C636275414221363260&sdata=<wbr>FLU88IUnUq0DTixWIhDAELHUtjhYZg<wbr>xqHGr8ihACkQ8%3D&reserved=0</span></a></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"><br>
>> </span><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"><a href="mailto:jmalcolm@eff.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">jmalcolm@eff.org</span></a></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"><br>
>> <br>
>> Tel: <a href="tel:(415)%20436-9333" value="+14154369333" target="_blank">415.436.9333 ext 161</a><br>
>> <br>
>> :: Defending Your Rights in the Digital World ::<br>
>> <br>
>> Public key: </span><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black"><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eff.org%2Ffiles%2F2016%2F11%2F27%2Fkey_jmalcolm.txt&data=02%7C01%7C%7C2528000b02f744c8d69a08d4811e3b81%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636275414221373268&sdata=GzYW9x04IhxeW3HTyWRedWTpbiQQOrfZfflAKXdh04M%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">https://na01.safelinks.<wbr>protection.outlook.com/?url=<wbr>https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eff.org%<wbr>2Ffiles%2F2016%2F11%2F27%<wbr>2Fkey_jmalcolm.txt&data=02%<wbr>7C01%7C%<wbr>7C2528000b02f744c8d69a08d4811e<wbr>3b81%<wbr>7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de<wbr>cee1%7C0%7C0%<wbr>7C636275414221373268&sdata=<wbr>GzYW9x04IhxeW3HTyWRedWTpbiQQOr<wbr>fZfflAKXdh04M%3D&reserved=0</span></a></span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"><br>
>> PGP fingerprint: 75D2 4C0D 35EA EA2F 8CA8 8F79 4911 EC4A EDDF 1122<br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
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