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<p>Greg, thanks for asking.</p>
<p>The way the process is designed, its requirements cannot be met
in certain scenarios. <br>
</p>
<p>The pre-order scenario conflicts with the requirement that the
registration may only be requested if the agreement to the notice
is not older than [x time]. So we cannot pre-fetch the notices and
present them at the time of the order as the registration would
occur at a time when the agreement to the notice has already
expired. This is checked in the registration path, e.g. registrars
have to provide the timestamp and other details during the
registration.</p>
<p>In the reseller scenario, we simply cannot meet the
responsibility of making sure that the agreement is provided by
the registrant and not another party. As this agreement happens
outside of our system, we cannot make sure who confirmed the
notice. Hence the need to get a notice directly to the registrant
to ensure that he has seen the notice and confirmed his intent to
register the string anyway. Anything else would require that all
resellers insert code into their registration portals that we
would provide, might not be compatible, etc. Many resellers also
operate on third party platforms, such as Parallels/Odin, making
additional implementation costly and time-consuming.</p>
<p>Finally, even with our own direct customers we cannot be certain
that the person owning the account is registering the domain name
from himself. Personally, I manage the domain names of my entire
extended family and have registered domains for many of them. They
would be in the whois as registrants, but I would be the person
making the order (and potentially confirming the notice).<br>
</p>
Essentially, the entire notice process was badly designed from the
viewpoint of many registrars as it made assumptions about how the
registration process works that missed the target in many cases. It
causes consumer confusion, reseller frustration and loss of income
for both registries and registrars from legitimate customers who
simply do not realize they have to do an extra step that does not
apply to all other regular registrations they do.<br>
<br>
Personally, I would advocate doing away with claims notices to
domain applicants and simply relying on the notification process to
the rights holders. <br>
<br>
Hope this helps.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Volker<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 09.06.2017 um 17:53 schrieb Greg
Shatan:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+aOHUQLpWgMcDkc_hgj1nwVsekdLZnrGvy-X2BxvV3ioRAeNA@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I agree that our
recommendations should include suggested data collection and
metrics. The data desert we are wandering in needs to be
irrigated so that it will bloom.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I think Brian's data is
helpful in that it provides some real data on a baseline of
abandonment. Not enough to make conclusions but it provides
some sense of a typical abandonment rate.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I think Volker points
out an implementation problem, but one that deserves better
understanding -- why are some notices not able to be generated
in the "normal" path? Where does the problem lie? This may
make more sense to discuss when we reach discussion of the
Claims Notice.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">So far, it's still my
personal impression is that we don't have enough data to draw
any conclusions regarding abandonment and its causes
(Trademark Notice vs. Other Reasons, "Good" Chilling Effect v.
"Bad" Chilling Effect).</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">FYI FWIW, <a
href="http://hotel.xyz" moz-do-not-send="true">hotel.xyz</a>
is available as a premium domain at the low, low price of
$3,249.99 (Cheap! At least by comparison to hotel.design or
hotel.party, which are $6,499.99)</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Also FYI, the owner of
<a href="http://cloud.xyz" moz-do-not-send="true">cloud.xyz</a>
(which seems to resolve to a blank page) is:</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<font face="monospace, monospace">Registrant Name: Zhang Guo <br>
Registrant Organization: Zhang Guo <br>
Registrant Street: You Yi Lu 71Hao <br>
Registrant City: QHDS <br>
Registrant State/Province: HBS <br>
Registrant Postal Code: 066000 <br>
Registrant Country: CN <br>
Registrant Phone: +86.13031887567 <br>
Registrant Fax: +86.13031887567 <br>
Registrant Email: <a href="mailto:saik56@163.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">saik56@163.com</a> <br>
Registry Admin ID: C123319878-CNIC</font>
<div><font face="monospace, monospace"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="monospace, monospace"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="verdana, sans-serif">G
<div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline">reg</div>
</font>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline"></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 11:00 AM, J.
Scott Evans via gnso-rpm-wg <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Volker:<br>
<br>
Thanks for this perspective. I know that my marketing team
struggles with what they call “stickiness” of a registration
process. Specifically, they are always looking for ways to
streamline the registration process because the “stickier”
the process (the more steps need to complete registration)
leads to a high drop off rate. Your antidotal evidence
certainly aligns with the same type of situation my folks at
Adobe find difficult in selling our subscriptions.<br>
<span class=""><br>
<br>
J. Scott Evans<br>
<a href="tel:408.536.5336" value="+14085365336"
moz-do-not-send="true">408.536.5336</a> (tel)<br>
345 Park Avenue, Mail Stop W11-544<br>
Director, Trademarks<br>
<a href="tel:408.709.6162" value="+14087096162"
moz-do-not-send="true">408.709.6162</a> (cell)<br>
San Jose, CA, 95110, USA<br>
Adobe. Make It an Experience.<br>
<a href="mailto:jsevans@adobe.com" moz-do-not-send="true">jsevans@adobe.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.adobe.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.adobe.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span>
<div>
<div class="h5">On 6/9/17, 7:52 AM, "<a
href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
on behalf of Volker Greimann" <<a
href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
on behalf of <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
There can be a significant drop-off due the
necessity to present this<br>
notice seperate from the purchase process.<br>
<br>
Examples:<br>
<br>
1) Potential Registrant pre-orders a domain: the
notice cannot be<br>
presented at the time of purchase<br>
<br>
2) Potential Registrant orders the domain through a
reseller with its<br>
own front-end: the notice cannot be presented by the
registrar in the<br>
purchase process<br>
<br>
Result => Notice has to be presented after the
order is received but<br>
before it is executed in an alternate process,
usually email. While we<br>
have not at the time measured the actual rate, we
did note a significant<br>
drop-off between the numbers of registrants directed
to visit a website<br>
where the notice could be presented and confirmed
and the number of<br>
mails sent. The drop-off between the number of
customers visiting the<br>
site, seeing the notice and then deciding not to
pursue the registration<br>
was smaller.<br>
<br>
Conclusion: The current noticeconfirmation process
that is supposed to<br>
be in the registration path does not work well in
real life for many<br>
industry sales channel.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Volker<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 09.06.2017 um 16:28 schrieb J. Scott Evans via
gnso-rpm-wg:<br>
> Brain. Point taken. I don’t mean to be
flippant. That said, I am growing increasing tired of
there always being a negative inference from behaviors
from those that are overall hostile to RPMs in general.
My point is that as a proponent of RPMs and someone who
worked diligently for over 9 months to come up with
these RPMs that the abandonment rate does not
automatically indicate that the system is not working as
intended.<br>
><br>
><br>
> J. Scott Evans<br>
> <a href="tel:408.536.5336"
value="+14085365336" moz-do-not-send="true">408.536.5336</a>
(tel)<br>
> 345 Park Avenue, Mail Stop W11-544<br>
> Director, Trademarks<br>
> 408.709.6162 (cell)<br>
> San Jose, CA, 95110, USA<br>
> Adobe. Make It an Experience.<br>
> <a href="mailto:jsevans@adobe.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">jsevans@adobe.com</a><br>
> <a href="http://www.adobe.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.adobe.com</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On 6/9/17, 7:24 AM, "Brian F. Cimbolic" <<a
href="mailto:BCimbolic@pir.org" moz-do-not-send="true">BCimbolic@pir.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> J. Scott, respectfully, what evidence is
there that the Claims notice provided to registrants is
not having a chilling effect for those with no intention
to infringe? I understand there is not direct evidence
on either side of the issue, but to say decisively that
it is "Not so" about the chilling effect without
providing some evidence seems unnecessarily flippant.<br>
><br>
> Brian Cimbolic<br>
> Deputy General Counsel, Public Interest
Registry<br>
> Office: <a
href="tel:%2B1%20703%20889-5752" value="+17038895752"
moz-do-not-send="true">+1 703 889-5752</a>| Mobile: <a
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> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a
href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@<wbr>icann.org</a>]
On Behalf Of J. Scott Evans via gnso-rpm-wg<br>
> Sent: Friday, June 09, 2017 10:19 AM<br>
> To: Rebecca Tushnet <<a
href="mailto:Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">Rebecca.Tushnet@law.<wbr>georgetown.edu</a>>;
Beckham, Brian <<a
href="mailto:brian.beckham@wipo.int"
moz-do-not-send="true">brian.beckham@wipo.int</a>><br>
> Cc: <a
href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] TMCH data on
abandonment<br>
> Importance: High<br>
><br>
> I will remind the group that Abandonment
is the point. The TM Claims notice is designed to inform
would-be innocent infringers that there is an issue. A
high abandonment rate show that the system is working. I
realize those hostile to the TM Claims feel that a high
abandonment rate is proof that the Claims notice is
overreaching. Not so.<br>
><br>
> J. Scott<br>
><br>
><br>
> J. Scott Evans<br>
> <a href="tel:408.536.5336"
value="+14085365336" moz-do-not-send="true">408.536.5336</a>
(tel)<br>
> 345 Park Avenue, Mail Stop W11-544<br>
> Director, Trademarks<br>
> <a href="tel:408.709.6162"
value="+14087096162" moz-do-not-send="true">408.709.6162</a>
(cell)<br>
> San Jose, CA, 95110, USA<br>
> Adobe. Make It an Experience.<br>
> <a href="mailto:jsevans@adobe.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">jsevans@adobe.com</a><br>
> <a href="http://www.adobe.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.adobe.com</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On 6/9/17, 7:16 AM, "<a
href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
on behalf of Rebecca Tushnet" <<a
href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
on behalf of <a
href="mailto:Rebecca.Tushnet@law.georgetown.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">Rebecca.Tushnet@law.<wbr>georgetown.edu</a>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> I agree with Paul K. Unfortunately,
we need better information than<br>
> that--we need to know about, of
attempts that reached the stage at<br>
> which a notice would be provided, how
many were abandoned. It's my<br>
> understanding--though I'd be happy to
learn more--that the notice<br>
> wouldn't come when the shopping cart
was filled but at checkout.<br>
><br>
> If we just don't have the data, then
it may be that our only<br>
> recommendation must be to get the
data.<br>
> Rebecca Tushnet<br>
> Georgetown Law<br>
> <a href="tel:703%20593%206759"
value="+17035936759" moz-do-not-send="true">703 593
6759</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 4:56 AM,
Beckham, Brian <<a
href="mailto:brian.beckham@wipo.int"
moz-do-not-send="true">brian.beckham@wipo.int</a>>
wrote:<br>
> > Dear all,<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > I’m not sure what is the right
venue (i.e., in the sub-group, of which I am<br>
> > not a member, or to the full WG)
to offer this, and it is offered merely to<br>
> > help fill out some of the
questions/discussion around seeking various<br>
> > TMCH/Claims-related data.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > In the transcript for the Sub
Team for Trademark Claims call on Friday, 02<br>
> > June 2017 at 16:00 UTC, there was
some discussion on abandonment rates. In<br>
> > summary: Rebeca Tushnet
suggested it would be helpful to compare<br>
> > non-TMCH-related abandonment vs
“regular” abandonment. Jeff Neuman recalled<br>
> > that during the BIZ launch there
was a high abandonment. Phil Corwin<br>
> > suggested that if the
non-TMCH-related abandonment rate was 80% then it may<br>
> > be reasonable to conclude that
there’s not a material difference between<br>
> > those subject to claims notices.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Mindful that it may be difficult
or even impossible to obtain the desired<br>
> > data (a number of reasons,
including competitive (dis-)advantages, were<br>
> > raised on the call), a recent
GoDaddy post informs us that “An average<br>
> > website loses 69 percent of sales
to abandoned carts.” A second GoDaddy<br>
> > article suggests it is 67%.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > See<br>
> > <a
href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.godaddy.com%2Fgarage%2Fsmallbusiness%2Fmarket%2Feffective-strategies-to-boost-abandoned-cart-email-conversion-rates%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C5323a61f9cb343c0017d08d4af42231a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636326145971754867&sdata=PtxSnnbDMNsumNMyaHdzoZZY0jowSqg1LeeFXqplKq4%3D&reserved=0"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://na01.safelinks.<wbr>protection.outlook.com/?url=<wbr>https%3A%2F%2Fwww.godaddy.com%<wbr>2Fgarage%2Fsmallbusiness%<wbr>2Fmarket%2Feffective-<wbr>strategies-to-boost-abandoned-<wbr>cart-email-conversion-rates%<wbr>2F&data=02%7C01%7C%<wbr>7C5323a61f9cb343c0017d08d4af42<wbr>231a%<wbr>7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de<wbr>cee1%7C0%7C0%<wbr>7C636326145971754867&sdata=<wbr>PtxSnnbDMNsumNMyaHdzoZZY0jowSq<wbr>g1LeeFXqplKq4%3D&reserved=0</a><br>
> > and<br>
> ><br>
> > <a
href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.godaddy.com%2Fgarage%2Findustry%2Fretail%2Fecommerce%2Fwant-to-to-increase-sales-reduce-shopping-cart-abandonment%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C5323a61f9cb343c0017d08d4af42231a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636326145971754867&sdata=aOJ1E7T6ITmYfP4bMNsvQ7dJAj3QrswMl4YK42BQp6c%3D&reserved=0"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://na01.safelinks.<wbr>protection.outlook.com/?url=<wbr>https%3A%2F%2Fwww.godaddy.com%<wbr>2Fgarage%2Findustry%2Fretail%<wbr>2Fecommerce%2Fwant-to-to-<wbr>increase-sales-reduce-<wbr>shopping-cart-abandonment%2F&<wbr>data=02%7C01%7C%<wbr>7C5323a61f9cb343c0017d08d4af42<wbr>231a%<wbr>7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de<wbr>cee1%7C0%7C0%<wbr>7C636326145971754867&sdata=<wbr>aOJ1E7T6ITmYfP4bMNsvQ7dJAj3Qrs<wbr>wMl4YK42BQp6c%3D&reserved=0</a>.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > There are many articles on this
topic with varying figures, but they tended<br>
> > to generally note abandonment
rates upwards of 60%.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > The takeaway is that the
TMCH-Claims rates observed here in the WG, while<br>
> > different/higher, are arguably
not materially different than e-commerce<br>
> > statistics generally (certainly
not the 20% noted by Phil Corwin as<br>
> > signaling “a significant
difference in the completion of registration.”).<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > It is important here to recall
too that many members of the WG have noted<br>
> > that (for a number of reasons)
registries, registrars, and registrants may<br>
> > have been sending queries in
large numbers, thus skewing the data upwards.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Best regards,<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Brian<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Brian Beckham | Head, Internet
Dispute Resolution Section | WIPO Arbitration<br>
> > and Mediation Center<br>
> > 34 chemin des Colombettes, 1211
Geneva 20, Switzerland | T <a
href="tel:%2B4122%20338%208247" value="+41223388247"
moz-do-not-send="true">+4122 338 8247</a> |<br>
> > E <a
href="mailto:brian.beckham@wipo.int"
moz-do-not-send="true">brian.beckham@wipo.int</a> | <a
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> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> > gnso-rpm-wg mailing list<br>
> > <a
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--<br>
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur
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Mit freundlichen Grüßen,<br>
<br>
Volker A. Greimann<br>
- Rechtsabteilung -<br>
<br>
Key-Systems GmbH<br>
Im Oberen Werk 1<br>
66386 St. Ingbert<br>
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Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin<br>
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Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534<br>
<br>
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<br>
------------------------------<wbr>--------------<br>
<br>
Should you have any further questions, please do not
hesitate to contact us.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
Volker A. Greimann<br>
- legal department -<br>
<br>
Key-Systems GmbH<br>
Im Oberen Werk 1<br>
66386 St. Ingbert<br>
Tel.: <a
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CEO: Alexander Siffrin<br>
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken<br>
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534<br>
<br>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
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Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
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