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<p>I still feel that the best way to remove abandonment would be to
remove the notices from the registration path and place them in
the post-registration notice path. Extending the notice period for
trademark holders might help be a good compromise.</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Volker<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 13.07.2017 um 16:25 schrieb Jon
Nevett:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:AAB3FD04-0EF5-40D4-BB3B-9DCBCAE2BF93@donuts.email">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div class="">Georges: Denying that there were abuses of the TMCH
won't help either. There have been plenty presented to date
(see below). Let's try to solve the problems and not deny that
they exist. Obviously, there is some abandonment based on the
notices -- let's work to minimize the rate of abandonment by
legitimate registrants without unduly hurting the protections
afforded to legitimate rights holders. Jon </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><a
href="https://www.thedomains.com/2017/02/01/the-trademark-clearinghouse-worked-so-well-one-company-got-24-new-gtld-using-the-famous-trademark-the/"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.thedomains.com/2017/02/01/the-trademark-clearinghouse-worked-so-well-one-company-got-24-new-gtld-using-the-famous-trademark-the/</a> </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<div class=""><a
href="https://www.thedomains.com/2014/03/22/tmch-has-plenty-of-trademarks-of-generic-words/"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.thedomains.com/2014/03/22/tmch-has-plenty-of-trademarks-of-generic-words/</a></div>
</div>
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<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Jul 13, 2017, at 9:37 AM, Nahitchevansky,
Georges <<a href="mailto:ghn@kilpatricktownsend.com"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">ghn@kilpatricktownsend.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">I think the basis problem has been and
remains that the basis for all this hunting around
and data requests is an unfounded claim that there
is an abundance of “</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">abusive and overreaching tmch
registrations.” The evidence of such alleged
widespread abuse has not been presented, because it
doesn’t exist. What all this sound and fury about
data etc. reminds me of is Donald Trump claiming
with basically no evidence that there was widespread
voter fraud to explain why he do not get the
majority of the popular vote in the US and then
setting up a special commission to investigate the
matter in the hope of cobbling together some sort of
proof. In the end it’s a waste of everybody’s time
and money.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
class=""> </span></p>
<div class="">
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in" class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
class="">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
class=""> <a
href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Paul Keating<br
class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b> Thursday, July 13, 2017
9:23 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> Kurt Pritz<br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> <a
href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br
class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rpm-wg]
Inferences (was Re: Mp3, Attendance, AC
recording & AC Chat Review of all Rights
Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) PDP Working Group)<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">Well i want to do a short review
here.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">The issue. Is the tmch function
resulting in overkill - in other words is it overly
protecting mark holders at the expense of the
public. <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">1st many were asking for a list
of marks registered with the tmch. The point here
was to understand what type of marks were actually
being registered and under what conditions.<o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">This was met with loud objections
by a few members who asserted confidentiality. I
seem to recall that the tmch agreement itself
contradicted any assertion of confidentiality. I
suggested the list be made known without indication
of registrant identification. I also suggested the
list be provided to a 3rd party under
confidentiality so they could report to the group.
There was no vote or attempt to measure consensus.<o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">2nd we then considered the
post-notice abandonment rate. This was a 2nd best
data source trying to figure out the same original
issue.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">Now it turns out that the data
set was not stellar. People are not asserting this
should be abandoned. This argument is being made by
the same small group that objected to release of the
marks registered with TMCH. <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">Now the suggestion is to abandon
any investigation into what is in TMCH or the
statistical abandonment rate and instead look at the
language of the notice itself. This does not solve
the problem. It is simply unacceptable to allow
abusive and overreaching tmch registrations just
because the notice can be watered down or improved.<o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">The problem remains. In order to
measure the success or appropriateness of the TMCH
(which this group is required to do) we must have
access to the underlying data. <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">I remain willing to work with
people to provide reasonable protection for
confidentiality. I reiterate my suggestions that
the data be anonymized or provided to a neutral
expert to review, categorize and report on.<o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">If this is not acceptable, then
the only alternative is for someone to essentially
reverse engineer the list by trial and error. This
can certainly be done on an automated basis.
However, neither side would win by this. It would
be a silly waste of time and resources. It would
also result in publication of the results. It seems
neither side would want such a result. I am sure we
can find a compromise.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">Anyone willing to work on this
with me?<br class="">
<br class="">
Sent from my iPad<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br
class="">
On 13 Jul 2017, at 12:22, Kurt Pritz <<a
href="mailto:kurt@kjpritz.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">kurt@kjpritz.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"
class="">
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">I agree with Susan. <o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">I think the Analysis Group
was at least negligent in their duties when they
reported the 93% abandonment rate. It was
misleading despite the disclaimers attached.
Whenever any number is reported, it tends to
gain traction and, as a result, we find
ourselves struggling to attach some type of
meaning to it. The Analysis report has led to
false conclusions and a waste of time. <o:p
class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">We are best off never
mentioning the number again. We should agree
that we have no understanding, information or
data on the issue of how abandonment rate was
effected by claims notices. <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">George has identified a
couple ways to approximate the effect. If
additional data gathering is undertaken along
the lines that George or anyone else suggests,
that work would be to get an understanding of
abandonment rates and not to test the reported
number by Analysis. <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">Susan’s last and penultimate
paragraphs below put it best. In addition to
identifying data be collected in the next round,
we could look at the language and display of the
current notices to ensure that the notices are
designed to achieve the goal of the claims
notice program: to properly inform without
intimidating. <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">Kurt<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: Helvetica,
sans-serif;" class="">________________<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: Helvetica,
sans-serif;" class="">Kurt Pritz<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: Helvetica,
sans-serif;" class=""><a
href="mailto:kurt@kjpritz.com"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">kurt@kjpritz.com</a><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: Helvetica,
sans-serif;" class="">+1.310.400.4184<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: Helvetica,
sans-serif;" class="">Skype: kjpritz<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: Helvetica,
sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: Helvetica,
sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
<div class="">
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"
class="">
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal">On Jul 13, 2017, at
10:28 AM, Susan Payne <<a
href="mailto:susan.payne@valideus.com"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">susan.payne@valideus.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">Correct, the data for<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b
class="">two</b><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>registrars
was excluded because of concerns about
mining, but Analysis Group clearly
were not confident that fully
addressed the concern:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">Page 7:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">"However, due to limitations
of the data (discussed in more detail
below), our analyses of the data
require an assumption that each
download is associated with a
registration attempt (and was not
downloaded by a registrar for a
purpose unrelated to domain name
registrations). If this assumption is
incorrect, then our results will
exaggerate the size of any observable
registration-deterrent Claims Service
effect."<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">Page 16:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">"These results should not be
relied upon to make policy
recommendations. We find that the vast
majority of registration attempts are
not completed after receiving a Claims
Service notification (94% abandonment
rate). This abandonment rate seems
quite high, however there are several
caveats to this result, which include
our inability to determine the
abandonment rate that would occur if
no Claims Service notifications were
sent and limitations of our data set,
which require us to assume that every
registrar download from the TMDB
represents a registration attempt.54
We therefore cannot determine whether
Claims Service notifications are the
direct cause for the abandonment rate
that we observe."<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">I believe this is a fruitless
exercise. Analysis Group are meant to
be professionals at this, were paid a
tidy sum by ICANN to carry out this
review, presumably had the benefit of
being an independent third party which
ought to have removed some of the
confidentiality concerns that we have
faced, and should have had the support
of whatever ICANN contractual
provisions there are requiring
co-operation in economic studies.
They still produced a report which
repeatedly cites the paucity of data,
the resulting reliance on assumptions,
and that their “results” were
consequently inadequate and should not
be relied upon to make policy. <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">We are wasting our time with
this. What would not be a waste of
time would be to identify the data
that we wish we had and make
recommendations such that any future
review would not be similarly
hampered. <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">Susan Payne<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">Head of Legal Policy |
Valideus Ltd<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">E:<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="mailto:susan.payne@valideus.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#954F72" class="">susan.payne@valideus.com</span></a><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">D: +44 20 7421 8255<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">T: +44 20 7421 8299<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">M: +44 7971 661175<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">-----Original Message-----<br
class="">
From: <a
href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a
href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
On Behalf Of George Kirikos<br
class="">
Sent: 12 July 2017 21:30<br class="">
To: <a
href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br
class="">
Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Inferences
(was Re: Mp3, Attendance, AC recording
& AC Chat Review of all Rights
Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) PDP
Working Group)<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">Hi again,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">Just to followup on my prior
email, The Analysis Group *already*
adjusted the stats to attempt to take
into account the "mining" theory that
Jeff spoke about. i.e. the 93.7%
abandonment figure that we've been
talking about is a figure obtained
*after* making the adjustments!
Without the adjustment (which
eliminated 62.2% of the observations),
the abandonment rate would have been
99%! See:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class=""><a
href="https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/64066042/Analysis%20Group%20Revised%20TMCH%20Report%20-%20March%202017.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1490349029000&api=v2"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none" class="">https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/64066042/Analysis%20Group%20Revised%20TMCH%20Report%20-%20March%202017.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1490349029000&api=v2</span></a><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">(a) page 17 (footnote 55)<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">""As discussed in Section IV,
there are two registrars that averaged
downloads of more than 20 trademark
strings per download, which is large
compared to the average of fewer than
five trademark strings in the
downloads of other registrars. We also
exclude downloads made by ICANN’s
monitoring system. The exclusion of
the two registrars does not
significantly impact our results.
Inclusion of the two registrars shows
that 99% of registrations are
abandoned and 0.5% of completed
registrations are disputed."<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">(b) page 18, note [2]<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">"[2] A bulk download is
defined as a download from the TMCH of
multiple strings by the same registrar
with exactly the same time stamp.
Downloads by two registrars are
excluded from this analysis because of
a potentially high prevalence of bulk
downloads (98.7% and 81.9% of
downloads, respectively) by each of
these two registrars. The average size
of the “bulk downloads” by these two
registrars (approximately 23 and 35
strings, respectively) is much larger
than the average “bulk download” size
of other registrars (other registrars
in the Claims Service data download 5
strings or less on average).<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">This exclusion results in an
exclusion of 62.2% of the observations
in the original Claims Service data
received from IBM after excluding
downloads by ICANN's monitoring
system."<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">Sincerely,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">George Kirikos<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">416-588-0269<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class=""><a
href="http://www.leap.com/" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"
class="">http://www.leap.com/</span></a><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 4:10
PM, George Kirikos <<a
href="mailto:icann@leap.com"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none" class="">icann@leap.com</span></a>>
wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> Hi folks,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> Just following up on
some statements from today's
transcript:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at
3:51 PM, Terri Agnew <<a
href="mailto:terri.agnew@icann.org"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none" class="">terri.agnew@icann.org</span></a>>
wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">>> Adobe Connect chat
transcript for 12 July 2017:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> ...<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">>> Jeff Neuman:My
belief is that we have a huge rate of
people<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">>> abandoning is
because (i) registrars were mining the
system, (ii)<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">>> registrants were
mining the system to see what was
valuable, and to a<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">>> lesser extent as a
result of the claim (either
legitimiate or not)<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">>> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">>> Jeff Neuman:But I
cant prove any of those theories<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">>> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">>> Kathy
Kleiman:@Jeff: we have gathered
evidence already from<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">>> registries; there is
probably more<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">>> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">>> Jeff Neuman:There
just is no way to do so on a backwards
basis<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> If one had access to the
raw data (and presumably The Analysis
Group<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> would have had it, to
generate their reports), one could
filter such<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> "mining" by examining
abandonment rates by (1) registrar and
(2) by<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> time relative to the
launch date.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> i.e. presumably those
were "mining" the system were not
spreading out<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> their queries across all
registrars equally. It would be easy
to<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> identify the outliers.
Furthermore, registrants would be also
focused<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> on a few registrars that
permit those bulk lookups, and they
wouldn't<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> spread their queries
over time equally --- they'd be
focused at the<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> launch (i.e. the
beginning, first few days, etc.) of a
TLD.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> Of course, if need be,
one could anonymize the data by
registrar (i.e.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> Registrar 1, Registrar
2, etc.), if there are any concerns
about<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> revealing their
individual abandonment rates.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> Registry operators and
registrars both have technology to
block WHOIS<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> access to those who are
"mining" that data. One can use
similar<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> detection techniques in
this instance.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> Sincerely,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> George Kirikos<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> 416-588-0269<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="http://www.leap.com/" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"
class="">http://www.leap.com/</span></a><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">>
_______________________________________________<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">> gnso-rpm-wg mailing list<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">><span
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class=""></o:p></span></p>
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class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">_______________________________________________<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
class="">gnso-rpm-wg mailing list<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
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<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
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class=""><a
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class=""></o:p></span></p>
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class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""
class="">_______________________________________________<br
class="">
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</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"
class="">
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<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
gnso-rpm-wg mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg</a></pre>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
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