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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Adobe Clean"">Sunrise registrations have been around since the first round of expansion almost some 15 years ago. Sunrise registrations are nothing new. In fact, given the premium pricing model
used by most registrars and registries for such registrations, I think there is a very good chance that most registries would offer Sunrise even if it wasn’t mandated. In addition, the use requirement for Sunrise registrations is new to the process and was
designed to thwart gaming. Obviously, that improvement has not yielded the intended result.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">J. Scott Evans</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">408.536.5336 (tel)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">345 Park Avenue, Mail Stop W11-544<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Director, Trademarks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">San Jose, CA, 95110, USA<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Adobe. Make It an Experience.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">jsevans@adobe.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">From: </span>
</b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black"><gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of "Nahitchevansky, Georges" <ghn@kilpatricktownsend.com><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, July 17, 2017 at 6:19 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Paul Keating <paul@law.es>, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Inferences (was Re: Mp3, Attendance, AC recording & AC Chat Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) PDP Working Group)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black">Paul:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black">Just a quick response on your point that halting the TMCH for sunrise purposes would be no great loss to trademark holders. Suggesting that the UDRP is adequate in of itself, misses the point
as to what the harm would be to trademark holders. Obtaining registrations of domains that correlate to a bona fide mark is way less expensive than the cost of having to pursue squatters via a UDRP, lawsuits, demand letters of the like. The reality is that
most brand owners do not have unlimited budgets and so I believe you could readily establish that what brand owners generally register are domains in extensions that correlate to their businesses and likely infringement situations. The sunrise is a vital
part of securing protections. If you assume 100 bona fide sunrise registrations per extension (registrations that correlate to trademarks that are actually in use), and of those 50 get squatted on because there is no TMCH, then assuming the cost on investigating,
preparing and filing a UDRP complaint to be $4000, the cost would be $200,000 per extension. If you assume the conservative number of 500 new gTLD extensions involved, the cost would be $100 million. Ultimately that cost likely filters down to consumers,
so it seems that having a sunrise period in the end is a cost saver and a far more efficient way of proceeding<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black">Georges<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<br>
</span><strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black">Georges Nahitchevansky
</span></strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black"> gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org [gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org] on
behalf of Paul Keating [paul@law.es]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 17, 2017 6:05 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Greg Shatan<br>
<b>Cc:</b> gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Inferences (was Re: Mp3, Attendance, AC recording & AC Chat Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) PDP Working Group)</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Greg<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Interesting post and I'm glad you did some digging. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">I do wish to point out however that the purpose of the entire sunrise/TMCH process was to protect legitimate trademark holders from cyber squatting. It was never about simply granting expansive rights on a global
basis. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">That said the issue of abuse for me is not so much that people are gaming the system. It is that they are gaming the system to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">achieve an unintended result - perpetual exclusive global rights to a mark without any requirement that it be used as a mark. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">IMho the design is flawed in allowing such marks to be registered in the first place via a sunrise process. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">An honest view is that the UDRP was created to prevent proven abuse of a mark. The TMCH is fit for purpose only in terms of its notification system - placing domain registrants on notice and thus preventing the
domain registrant from prevailing on bad faith by claiming ignorance. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">If we halted all TMCH use for sunrise purposes I see no huge loss for trademark holders. And such would resolve the underlying problematic issue - the use of the TMCH in the context of providing a preemptive,
perpetual, globally exclusive right to a domain name that far exceeds any right granted by any trademark law or treaty. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><br>
Sincerely, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Paul Keating, Esq.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="color:black"><br>
On Jul 17, 2017, at 8:31 AM, Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black">The article cited by George Kirikos makes a similar distinction to the one I'm making:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;color:#333333">After spending a week analyzing the terms, reviewing the TMCH rules and talking to people on many sides of the domain ecosystem, I’ve come to this conclusion: for the most part, the common
words were applied for by well-meaning companies that are only trying to protect their brands. A handful, however, were registered by people trying to game the system. </span><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black">I think we could get fairly broad agreement that a method to exclude the "gamers" from the TMCH would be worth pursuing. The gamers mentioned in this latter article are discussed in greater
detail in this article: <a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdomainnamewire.com%2F2014%2F01%2F31%2Fdonuts-sunrise-data%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cde1095736376461d13ac08d4cd167c11%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636358943847411105&sdata=lKS2WrqBj9T7Yt0slvPbI3wrfqVIP3XqT%2BhwZA1%2FMMQ%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">http://domainnamewire.com/2014/01/31/donuts-sunrise-data/</a>.
Interestingly, it appears to be a New gTLD applicant, their holding company and a related party.... So out of the 3 instances of gaming, one set is from a registry (and associated entities), one is from a registrar, and one is from a company with a long history
of gaming TLD launches.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black">Interesting.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black">What I don't think is going to get broad agreement is a method to exclude "well-meaning companies that are only trying to protect their brands" like Global Media & Entertainment and Galbani
from the TMCH, no matter how much nattering and chattering there is about "generic words" etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black">The sooner we move away from throwing around overreaching claims about So Many Bad Things Happening and move toward solving problem we can agree are real problems, the more likely we are to
actually accomplish something in the foreseeable future....<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black">Greg<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 2:14 AM, Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black">Jon,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black">The linked articles you provide show the danger of jumping to conclusions about what constitutes an "abuse of the TMCH" and who qualifies as an abuser of the TMCH. Also, what constitutes "plenty"
of abuses.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black">The first article discusses only the sunrise registrations secured by one entity based on their registration of the term THE. The entity, Goallover Limited, seems to be associated with various
tools used in buying and maintaining personal data (a/k/a "leads") -- the most prominent being LolaGrove. They seem to have a somewhat legitimate set of businesses, and yet there's no indication they use the word "THE" as a brand in any meaningful way. One
would be more shocked if a little more searching didn't reveal that Goallover Limited is not new to this type of scheme. A search reveals the following tidbit from 2006:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-family:Helvetica;color:#1A1A1A"><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.worldtrademarkreview.com%2FDaily%2FDetail.aspx%3Fg%3De65decb0-3c4d-427f-9e4e-45832f65a97a&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cde1095736376461d13ac08d4cd167c11%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636358943847411105&sdata=UkqndYDoP1r2Dv%2F0DocZDDFJJUIFheJ197e39A3%2BDnQ%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0457A8">Memorex
wins in first wave of '.eu' cybersquatting cases</span></a> </span><span style="font-family:Helvetica;color:#55626C;font-weight:normal">(Legal updates)</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica;color:#1A1A1A"><o:p></o:p></span></h4>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#55626C">07 September 2006</span></b><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:7.5pt"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">While the first round of '.eu' domain name decisions were against the '.eu' registry, trademark owners are now successfully challenging cybersquatters. In Memorex
Products Europe Limited v Goallover Limited, the panel was faced with a respondent who had registered the trademark MEMO REX the day before it applied for the domain name '<a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmemorex.eu&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cde1095736376461d13ac08d4cd167c11%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636358943847411105&sdata=NunYdMxaRhV6EbEbpSllSpJoUbeBk42N0lkOfY%2FY3Ww%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">memorex.eu</a>',
and had 132 similar sunrise applications.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black">This does appear to be a form of "TMCH abuse," but its hard to discern what makes their claim to trademark rights bona fide.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black">The second article casts a wider net. Unfortunately, it captures legitimate brandowners along with likely abusers.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black">The first one, HOSTING, was registered by a domain name registrar and hosting provider called Hosting Concepts BV, which appears to do business as Openprovider (see, e.g.,
<a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openprovider.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cde1095736376461d13ac08d4cd167c11%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636358943847411105&sdata=Knqt9loLz6E8xitknDu8un5J%2FqhGySNhO2HlcGFA7m8%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">
www.openprovider.com</a>). On their LinkedIn page they state "Since july 1st 2012 the only brand of Hosting Concepts is: Openprovider: <a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openprovider.nl&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cde1095736376461d13ac08d4cd167c11%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636358943847411105&sdata=ZWQKrijHQpkz8xlcHaErsu7whwMzaPAYLyu22%2FGTw5A%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">https://www.openprovider.nl</a>
<a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openprovider.co.uk&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cde1095736376461d13ac08d4cd167c11%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636358943847411105&sdata=1p0TgPsmc3rYes%2Beit69dMLvrFdr%2FnTjoFRZtKPeFo8%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">https://www.openprovider.co.uk</a> <a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openprovider.es&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cde1095736376461d13ac08d4cd167c11%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636358943847411105&sdata=vPaeh03PUhxW89C%2F%2Feu%2Bx8%2FcmuHKixjSBYsX0X9KgcA%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">https://www.openprovider.es</a>"
It might be interesting to know how they use HOSTING as a trademark (which they claim is for rubber and plastic products (of unknown type), but not for their actual business, which is hosting). As an apparently legitimate registrar and hosting provider business,
it does raise concerns that they appear to have a side-business in filing questionable trademark applications.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black">The second one, GOLD, is a horse of a different color. The owner, This is Global Limited (now known as Global Media & Entertainment Limited) is a UK based media company (<a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.global.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cde1095736376461d13ac08d4cd167c11%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636358943847411105&sdata=4lOyhXZMB%2BRyhyhZVCnp2IYunmFwpnwpIHndWH2vbf8%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">http://www.global.com/</a>)
which identifies itself as the UK's largest commercial radio business -- one of their "formats", with a number of radio stations operating under the mark, is called GOLD (see <a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FGold_(radio)&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cde1095736376461d13ac08d4cd167c11%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636358943847411105&sdata=XC8%2BvbB1WAqflA9t1WupeUaCvke8sHf0BQKUyELtRPM%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_(radio)</a>
or <a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.global.com%2Fradio%2Fgold%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cde1095736376461d13ac08d4cd167c11%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636358943847411105&sdata=3M05b0xbOUWDHYHfvdUAu%2Bv86ICskf%2FzwRqnJweNkJY%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">http://www.global.com/radio/gold/</a>)
It's subtitled "Greatest Hits of All Time," and appears to be an "oldies" format. They filed for the trademark back in 2009 (UK00002515362). This is an entirely legitimate trademark and use, being unfairly accused of "TMCH abuse."</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black">The next one "biG" is also a "false positive" for "TMCH abuse." biG is a trademark of </span><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:#333333">S.p.A. Egidio Galbani, a large Italian cheesemaker,
with sales in numerous countries, doing business as Gruppo Lactalis. Their website <a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gruppolactalisitalia.com%2Flocator.cfm%3Fsectionid%3D974&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cde1095736376461d13ac08d4cd167c11%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636358943847411105&sdata=g08%2BVgDIXPTCof7GkeXIoh%2BMkWJvBZbqO3QcPyohc%2FA%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">http://www.gruppolactalisitalia.com/locator.cfm?sectionid=974</a>
reveals the following about the business carried out under this mark:</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="m-9100487203884533557gmail-sottotit"><b><span style="font-size:8.5pt;color:#0D2760">biG: Una grande società per una grande distribuzione</span></b></span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><strong><span style="font-size:8.5pt;color:#78756D">biG Srl è la società nata nel 2004 per la distribuzione e vendita di tutti i prodotti Galbani in Italia</span></strong><span style="font-size:8.5pt;color:#78756D">. È caratterizzata dal più capillare network
di distribuzione di prodotti freschi su tutto nel nostro Paese con <strong>1.130 tra venditori e agenti,oltre 1.000 camioncini e 108 depositi territoriali.</strong><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><strong><span style="font-size:8.5pt;color:#78756D">Dal 2009 si occupa di tutto il portafoglio prodotti del Gruppo Lactalis Italia</span></strong><span style="font-size:8.5pt;color:#78756D"> (tutti i marchi Galbani, Vallelata, Invernizzi, Locatelli, Cademartori,
Président) per garantirne una gestione integrata e sinergica ed una maggiore efficienza e sviluppo nei diversi <strong>Canali di Vendita. </strong>Il mercato dei formaggi in Italia rappresenta infatti il 1° a valore nel reparto del fresco e garantisce il maggior
contributo alla crescita di fatturato dei vari punti vendita.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#78756D">which, courtesy of Google Translate, says something like this:</span><span style="color:#78756D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span class="m-9100487203884533557gmail-sottotit"><b><span style="font-size:8.5pt;color:#0D2760">biG: A great company for a large distribution</span></b></span><span style="font-size:8.5pt;color:#78756D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><strong><span style="font-size:8.5pt;color:#78756D">biG Srl is the company formed in 2004 for the distribution and sale of all Galbani products in Italy</span></strong><span style="font-size:8.5pt;color:#78756D"> . It is characterized by the most extensive
distribution network of fresh produce throughout our country by <strong>1130 between sellers and agents, more than 1,000 trucks and 108 local deposits.</strong><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><strong><span style="font-size:8.5pt;color:#78756D">Since 2009 deals with all the Group's product portfolio Lactalis Italy</span></strong><span style="font-size:8.5pt;color:#78756D"> (all Galbani brands, Vallelata, Invernizzi, Locatelli, Cademartori, Président)
to ensure an integrated and synergic management and greater efficiency and development in various <strong>Sales Channels. </strong>The cheese market in Italy represents the 1st value in the fresh department and ensures the greatest contribution to growth in
sales of the various sales outlets.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Again, an entirely legitimate trademark and trademark owner being tarred by false charges of "TMCH abuse."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">The fourth and last mark cited is the infamous THE registered by the infamous GOALLOVER LIMITED.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">So, the "plenty" of TMCH abuses adds up to one attempt by a registrar and hosting provider to claim the mark HOSTING, one attempt by a serial "gamer" to claim the mark THE, one false accusation against a brandowner
for GOLD for a bona fide radio station business and one false accusation against a brandowner for biG for a bona fide food distribution business.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black">Even more concerning is that these claims are thrown out there and then adopted and further transmitted by people who I sincerely believe are trying to have an informed good-faith discussion
about their concerns. Nonetheless, it took me less than an hour to discern that half of the "plenty" of instances were false. That makes it harder than it should be to discuss these concerns in a productive way.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black">We need to strive for a discussion and a solution that is aimed at actors like OpenProvider and Goallover, which appear to be clear instances of "gaming" rather than bona fide uses of the marks,
while not pulling in legitimate brands and brandowners like Global Media & Entertainment and Galbani.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:black">I agree that there is a challenge in creating the right filter that would separate the wheat from the chaff. But that doesn't mean it can't be done.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#888888"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#888888">Greg</span><span style="color:#888888"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#888888"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jon Nevett <<a href="mailto:jon@donuts.email" target="_blank">jon@donuts.email</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Georges: Denying that there were abuses of the TMCH won't help either. There have been plenty presented to date (see below). Let's try to solve the problems and not deny that they exist. Obviously, there is
some abandonment based on the notices -- let's work to minimize the rate of abandonment by legitimate registrants without unduly hurting the protections afforded to legitimate rights holders. Jon <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedomains.com%2F2017%2F02%2F01%2Fthe-trademark-clearinghouse-worked-so-well-one-company-got-24-new-gtld-using-the-famous-trademark-the%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cde1095736376461d13ac08d4cd167c11%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636358943847411105&sdata=jmAm4cacsj8yEhJ6%2Fa8%2FimqGJ2q8zuqELZlUF0NTefc%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">https://www.thedomains.com/2017/02/01/the-trademark-clearinghouse-worked-so-well-one-company-got-24-new-gtld-using-the-famous-trademark-the/</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedomains.com%2F2014%2F03%2F22%2Ftmch-has-plenty-of-trademarks-of-generic-words%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cde1095736376461d13ac08d4cd167c11%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636358943847411105&sdata=uRT3QhbKuFNoW22jwXbQFoguSPqXsCkuCIhqlqMfrJM%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">https://www.thedomains.com/2014/03/22/tmch-has-plenty-of-trademarks-of-generic-words/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">On Jul 13, 2017, at 9:37 AM, Nahitchevansky, Georges <<a href="mailto:ghn@kilpatricktownsend.com" target="_blank">ghn@kilpatricktownsend.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a name="m_-9100487203884533557_m_692823562941491"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">I think the basis problem has been and remains that the basis for
all this hunting around and data requests is an unfounded claim that there is an abundance of “</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">abusive and overreaching tmch registrations.” The evidence of such alleged widespread
abuse has not been presented, because it doesn’t exist. What all this sound and fury about data etc. reminds me of is Donald Trump claiming with basically no evidence that there was widespread voter fraud to explain why he do not get the majority of the popular
vote in the US and then setting up a special commission to investigate the matter in the hope of cobbling together some sort of proof. In the end it’s a waste of everybody’s time and money.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black">
<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Keating<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 13, 2017 9:23 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kurt Pritz<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Inferences (was Re: Mp3, Attendance, AC recording & AC Chat Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) PDP Working Group)</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Well i want to do a short review here.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">The issue. Is the tmch function resulting in overkill - in other words is it overly protecting mark holders at the expense of the public. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">1st many were asking for a list of marks registered with the tmch. The point here was to understand what type of marks were actually being registered
and under what conditions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">This was met with loud objections by a few members who asserted confidentiality. I seem to recall that the tmch agreement itself contradicted any assertion
of confidentiality. I suggested the list be made known without indication of registrant identification. I also suggested the list be provided to a 3rd party under confidentiality so they could report to the group. There was no vote or attempt to measure
consensus.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">2nd we then considered the post-notice abandonment rate. This was a 2nd best data source trying to figure out the same original issue.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Now it turns out that the data set was not stellar. People are not asserting this should be abandoned. This argument is being made by the same small
group that objected to release of the marks registered with TMCH. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Now the suggestion is to abandon any investigation into what is in TMCH or the statistical abandonment rate and instead look at the language of the notice
itself. This does not solve the problem. It is simply unacceptable to allow abusive and overreaching tmch registrations just because the notice can be watered down or improved.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">The problem remains. In order to measure the success or appropriateness of the TMCH (which this group is required to do) we must have access to the underlying
data. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">I remain willing to work with people to provide reasonable protection for confidentiality. I reiterate my suggestions that the data be anonymized or provided
to a neutral expert to review, categorize and report on.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">If this is not acceptable, then the only alternative is for someone to essentially reverse engineer the list by trial and error. This can certainly be
done on an automated basis. However, neither side would win by this. It would be a silly waste of time and resources. It would also result in publication of the results. It seems neither side would want such a result. I am sure we can find a compromise.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Anyone willing to work on this with me?<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="color:black"><br>
On 13 Jul 2017, at 12:22, Kurt Pritz <<a href="mailto:kurt@kjpritz.com" target="_blank">kurt@kjpritz.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">I agree with Susan. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">I think the Analysis Group was at least negligent in their duties when they reported the 93% abandonment rate. It was misleading despite the disclaimers
attached. Whenever any number is reported, it tends to gain traction and, as a result, we find ourselves struggling to attach some type of meaning to it. The Analysis report has led to false conclusions and a waste of time. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">We are best off never mentioning the number again. We should agree that we have no understanding, information or data on the issue of how abandonment rate
was effected by claims notices. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">George has identified a couple ways to approximate the effect. If additional data gathering is undertaken along the lines that George or anyone else suggests,
that work would be to get an understanding of abandonment rates and not to test the reported number by Analysis. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Susan’s last and penultimate paragraphs below put it best. In addition to identifying data be collected in the next round, we could look at the language
and display of the current notices to ensure that the notices are designed to achieve the goal of the claims notice program: to properly inform without intimidating. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Kurt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;color:black">________________</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;color:black">Kurt Pritz</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><a href="mailto:kurt@kjpritz.com" target="_blank">kurt@kjpritz.com</a></span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;color:black"><a href="tel:(310)%20400-4184" target="_blank">+1.310.400.4184</a></span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;color:black">Skype: kjpritz</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">On Jul 13, 2017, at 10:28 AM, Susan Payne <<a href="mailto:susan.payne@valideus.com" target="_blank">susan.payne@valideus.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Correct, the data for<span class="m-9100487203884533557gmail-m6928235629414912965apple-converted-space"> </span><b>two</b><span class="m-9100487203884533557gmail-m6928235629414912965apple-converted-space"> </span>registrars
was excluded because of concerns about mining, but Analysis Group clearly were not confident that fully addressed the concern:</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Page 7:</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">"However, due to limitations of the data (discussed in more detail below), our analyses of the data require an assumption
that each download is associated with a registration attempt (and was not downloaded by a registrar for a purpose unrelated to domain name registrations). If this assumption is incorrect, then our results will exaggerate the size of any observable registration-deterrent
Claims Service effect."</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Page 16:</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">"These results should not be relied upon to make policy recommendations. We find that the vast majority of registration
attempts are not completed after receiving a Claims Service notification (94% abandonment rate). This abandonment rate seems quite high, however there are several caveats to this result, which include our inability to determine the abandonment rate that would
occur if no Claims Service notifications were sent and limitations of our data set, which require us to assume that every registrar download from the TMDB represents a registration attempt.54 We therefore cannot determine whether Claims Service notifications
are the direct cause for the abandonment rate that we observe."</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">I believe this is a fruitless exercise. Analysis Group are meant to be professionals at this, were paid a tidy sum
by ICANN to carry out this review, presumably had the benefit of being an independent third party which ought to have removed some of the confidentiality concerns that we have faced, and should have had the support of whatever ICANN contractual provisions
there are requiring co-operation in economic studies. They still produced a report which repeatedly cites the paucity of data, the resulting reliance on assumptions, and that their “results” were consequently inadequate and should not be relied upon to make
policy. </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">We are wasting our time with this. What would not be a waste of time would be to identify the data that we wish we
had and make recommendations such that any future review would not be similarly hampered. </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Susan Payne</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Head of Legal Policy | Valideus Ltd</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">E:<span class="m-9100487203884533557gmail-m6928235629414912965apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:susan.payne@valideus.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#954F72">susan.payne@valideus.com</span></a></span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">D:
<a href="tel:+44%2020%207421%208255" target="_blank">+44 20 7421 8255</a></span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">T:
<a href="tel:+44%2020%207421%208299" target="_blank">+44 20 7421 8299</a></span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">M:
<a href="tel:+44%207971%20661175" target="_blank">+44 7971 661175</a></span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>] On Behalf Of George Kirikos<br>
Sent: 12 July 2017 21:30<br>
To: <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Inferences (was Re: Mp3, Attendance, AC recording & AC Chat Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) PDP Working Group)</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Hi again,</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Just to followup on my prior email, The Analysis Group *already* adjusted the stats to attempt to take into account
the "mining" theory that Jeff spoke about. i.e. the 93.7% abandonment figure that we've been talking about is a figure obtained *after* making the adjustments! Without the adjustment (which eliminated 62.2% of the observations), the abandonment rate would
have been 99%! See:</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcommunity.icann.org%2Fdownload%2Fattachments%2F64066042%2FAnalysis%2520Group%2520Revised%2520TMCH%2520Report%2520-%2520March%25202017.pdf%3Fversion%3D1%26modificationDate%3D1490349029000%26api%3Dv2&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cde1095736376461d13ac08d4cd167c11%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C636358943847411105&sdata=h80vj2fvfE0IbPCT83GY6xhRo67X3U8RTo9RgJ1jZrU%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/64066042/Analysis%20Group%20Revised%20TMCH%20Report%20-%20March%202017.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1490349029000&api=v2</span></a></span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">(a) page 17 (footnote 55)</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">""As discussed in Section IV, there are two registrars that averaged downloads of more than 20 trademark strings per
download, which is large compared to the average of fewer than five trademark strings in the downloads of other registrars. We also exclude downloads made by ICANN’s monitoring system. The exclusion of the two registrars does not significantly impact our results.
Inclusion of the two registrars shows that 99% of registrations are abandoned and 0.5% of completed registrations are disputed."</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">(b) page 18, note [2]</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">"[2] A bulk download is defined as a download from the TMCH of multiple strings by the same registrar with exactly
the same time stamp. Downloads by two registrars are excluded from this analysis because of a potentially high prevalence of bulk downloads (98.7% and 81.9% of downloads, respectively) by each of these two registrars. The average size of the “bulk downloads”
by these two registrars (approximately 23 and 35 strings, respectively) is much larger than the average “bulk download” size of other registrars (other registrars in the Claims Service data download 5 strings or less on average).</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">This exclusion results in an exclusion of 62.2% of the observations in the original Claims Service data received from
IBM after excluding downloads by ICANN's monitoring system."</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Sincerely,</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">George Kirikos</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><a href="tel:(416)%20588-0269" target="_blank">416-588-0269</a></span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.leap.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cde1095736376461d13ac08d4cd167c11%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636358943847411105&sdata=NFIqpBigXLlsCvCEZV5%2BMS2OJ0dZfm9M3Htk2vsJhJs%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">http://www.leap.com/</span></a></span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 4:10 PM, George Kirikos <<a href="mailto:icann@leap.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">icann@leap.com</span></a>>
wrote:</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> Hi folks,</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> Just following up on some statements from today's transcript:</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 3:51 PM, Terri Agnew <<a href="mailto:terri.agnew@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">terri.agnew@icann.org</span></a>>
wrote:</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">>> Adobe Connect chat transcript for 12 July 2017:</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> ...</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">>> Jeff Neuman:My belief is that we have a huge rate of people</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">>> abandoning is because (i) registrars were mining the system, (ii)</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">>> registrants were mining the system to see what was valuable, and to a</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">>> lesser extent as a result of the claim (either legitimiate or not)</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">>> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">>> Jeff Neuman:But I cant prove any of those theories</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">>> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">>> Kathy Kleiman:@Jeff: we have gathered evidence already from</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">>> registries; there is probably more</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">>> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">>> Jeff Neuman:There just is no way to do so on a backwards basis</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> If one had access to the raw data (and presumably The Analysis Group</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> would have had it, to generate their reports), one could filter such</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> "mining" by examining abandonment rates by (1) registrar and (2) by</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> time relative to the launch date.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> i.e. presumably those were "mining" the system were not spreading out</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> their queries across all registrars equally. It would be easy to</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> identify the outliers. Furthermore, registrants would be also focused</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> on a few registrars that permit those bulk lookups, and they wouldn't</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> spread their queries over time equally --- they'd be focused at the</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> launch (i.e. the beginning, first few days, etc.) of a TLD.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> Of course, if need be, one could anonymize the data by registrar (i.e.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> Registrar 1, Registrar 2, etc.), if there are any concerns about</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> revealing their individual abandonment rates.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> Registry operators and registrars both have technology to block WHOIS</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> access to those who are "mining" that data. One can use similar</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> detection techniques in this instance.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> Sincerely,</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> George Kirikos</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">>
<a href="tel:(416)%20588-0269" target="_blank">416-588-0269</a></span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">><span class="m-9100487203884533557gmail-m6928235629414912965apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.leap.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cde1095736376461d13ac08d4cd167c11%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636358943847411105&sdata=NFIqpBigXLlsCvCEZV5%2BMS2OJ0dZfm9M3Htk2vsJhJs%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">http://www.leap.com/</span></a></span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> _______________________________________________</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">> gnso-rpm-wg mailing list</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">><span class="m-9100487203884533557gmail-m6928235629414912965apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</span></a></span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">_______________________________________________</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">_______________________________________________<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br>
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