<div dir="ltr">+1<div><br></div><div>Jonathan Matkowsky</div><div>RiskIQ, Inc. <div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Winterfeldt, Brian J. <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:BWinterfeldt@mayerbrown.com" target="_blank">BWinterfeldt@mayerbrown.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>+1<br>
<br>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><b style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Brian J. Winterfeldt<u></u><u></u></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Co-Head of Global Brand Management and Internet Practice<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Mayer Brown LLP<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><a href="mailto:bwinterfeldt@mayerbrown.com" target="_blank">bwinterfeldt@mayerbrown.com</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><a>1999
K Street, NW</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><a>Washington,
DC 20006-1101</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><a href="tel:202.263.3284" target="_blank">202.263.3284</a> direct
dial<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><a href="tel:202.830.0330" target="_blank">202.830.0330</a> fax<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><a>1221
Avenue of the Americas</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><a>New
York, New York 10020-1001</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
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</div>
<div><br>
On Aug 9, 2017, at 3:19 PM, J. Scott Evans via gnso-rpm-wg <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<div><span>Dear All:</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>I personally believe that a continued discussion of the continuance of Sunrise Registrations is fruitless. As I recall our call on August 2nd, I believe we had solid consensus that the solution is to fix the loopholes in the current system, not eliminate
the current system altogether. I realize that Jeremy and George have a viewpoint, but that viewpoint is not reflective of our discussions. I suggest we move on to more productive topics.</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>J. Scott Evans</span><br>
<span><a href="tel:(408)%20536-5336" value="+14085365336" target="_blank">408.536.5336</a> (tel)</span><br>
<span>345 Park Avenue, Mail Stop W11-544</span><br>
<span>Director, Trademarks</span><br>
<span><a href="tel:(408)%20709-6162" value="+14087096162" target="_blank">408.709.6162</a> (cell)</span><br>
<span>San Jose, CA, 95110, USA</span><br>
<span>Adobe. Make It an Experience.</span><br>
<span><a href="mailto:jsevans@adobe.com" target="_blank">jsevans@adobe.com</a></span><br>
<span><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.adobe.com&data=01%7C01%7CBwinterfeldt%40mayerbrown.com%7C78fe47c8bf91416421a808d4df5b8175%7C09131022b7854e6d8d42916975e51262%7C0&sdata=uF18LLvy1xAW1V8OK49BJX9UqZ5BRbvdY4h1PI%2BUG1M%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">https://na01.safelinks.<wbr>protection.outlook.com/?url=<wbr>www.adobe.com&data=01%7C01%<wbr>7CBwinterfeldt%40mayerbrown.<wbr>com%<wbr>7C78fe47c8bf91416421a808d4df5b<wbr>8175%<wbr>7C09131022b7854e6d8d42916975e5<wbr>1262%7C0&sdata=<wbr>uF18LLvy1xAW1V8OK49BJX9UqZ5BRb<wbr>vdY4h1PI%2BUG1M%3D&reserved=0</a></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>On 8/9/17, 12:00 PM, "<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> on behalf of Susan Payne" <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> on behalf of
<a href="mailto:susan.payne@valideus.com" target="_blank">susan.payne@valideus.com</a>> wrote:</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span> George</span><br>
<span> I've never been anything other than transparent about where I work - it's in my SOI, my company is always identified in my signature, and I regularly refer to my experiences in my current and previous employment, and the experiences of my clients,
during calls on this working group. I'd be astonished if anyone who was interested needed you to facilitate transparency for them. </span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span> As you yourself have demonstrated from the quote below, our validations work is particularly with registry operators who want to voluntarily go further than the mandated minimum by controlling the eligibility of registrants in their TLD. Having no
mandated sunrise wouldn't really impact on that - indeed since many registries want to be good actors we'd probably have greater scope and flexibility. Our validations work predates the new gTLD program. </span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span> To save you wasting your time crawling through our websites, Valideus sister company is a corporate registrar, Com Laude, and since we acquire sunrise registrations for our clients, you could also say we earn revenue from sunrises by that means too.
But then that would be true of landrush and GA too. However, if you knew anything about our business you would know that we don't push our clients to register in all TLD's, we counsel brand owners to take a measured and strategic approach, and we have been
outspoken in recommending that our clients bypass some sunrises and registries altogether. As others have pointed out, we've all got a vested interest in some way or another, otherwise we wouldn't be spending so many enjoyable hours together on calls and
email. </span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span> I was not trying to stifle different points of view - merely pointing out that they have been made ad nauseum, repetition does not change their validity, and that in my opinion and that of many others on this working group, our time could be usefully
spent trying to make practical progress on addressing the bad actors rather than penalizing the good.
</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span> Feel free to reply as you wish (I wouldn't want to stifle you) but I won't be bothering to read or respond so don't draw any inferences from silence.
</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span> Susan Payne</span><br>
<span> Head of Legal Policy | Valideus Ltd</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span> E: <a href="mailto:susan.payne@valideus.com" target="_blank">susan.payne@valideus.com</a>
</span><br>
<span> T: <a href="tel:+44%2020%207421%208299" value="+442074218299" target="_blank">+44 20 7421 8299</a></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span> -----Original Message-----</span><br>
<span> From: <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@<wbr>icann.org</a>] On Behalf Of George Kirikos</span><br>
<span> Sent: 09 August 2017 17:32</span><br>
<span> To: gnso-rpm-wg <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>></span><br>
<span> Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] FOR REVIEW & DISCUSSION: Draft collated proposal for Sunrise-related data collection</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span> Hi Jeff,</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span> I respectfully disagree with your assessment as to it violating any expected standards of behaviour. Indeed, according to that policy:</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span> <a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icann.org%2Fresources%2Fpages%2Fexpected-standards-2016-06-28-en&data=02%7C01%7C%7C2c8f996441fa4f002f9608d4df483af0%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636378948705498919&sdata=T2a5Fb0UlM82eDYnoIAVZQzphiQiNrOcL%2FBo0P6q%2BIY%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">https://na01.safelinks.<wbr>protection.outlook.com/?url=<wbr>https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icann.org%<wbr>2Fresources%2Fpages%<wbr>2Fexpected-standards-2016-06-<wbr>28-en&data=02%7C01%7C%<wbr>7C2c8f996441fa4f002f9608d4df48<wbr>3af0%<wbr>7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de<wbr>cee1%7C0%7C0%<wbr>7C636378948705498919&sdata=<wbr>T2a5Fb0UlM82eDYnoIAVZQzphiQiNr<wbr>OcL%2FBo0P6q%2BIY%3D&reserved=<wbr>0</a></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span> I was facilitating "transparency" by pointing out that those who want to not look at any evidence happen to have an economic interest in the maintenance of that policy. Which part was "inaccurate", since I cited their own website with discussion of
sunrise-related services?</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span> <a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fvalideus.com%2Fservices%2Fvalidation-services&data=02%7C01%7C%7C2c8f996441fa4f002f9608d4df483af0%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636378948705498919&sdata=aEW9GVofBaNRWZfun1p1dTwlGbE5qd1qZAbUK6dSXyA%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">https://na01.safelinks.<wbr>protection.outlook.com/?url=<wbr>https%3A%2F%2Fvalideus.com%<wbr>2Fservices%2Fvalidation-<wbr>services&data=02%7C01%7C%<wbr>7C2c8f996441fa4f002f9608d4df48<wbr>3af0%<wbr>7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de<wbr>cee1%7C0%7C0%<wbr>7C636378948705498919&sdata=<wbr>aEW9GVofBaNRWZfun1p1dTwlGbE5qd<wbr>1qZAbUK6dSXyA%3D&reserved=0</a></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span> "Whatever you want to achieve from your launch, we are here to help you. We can design and implement a phased Sunrise for rights owners not in the Trademark Clearinghouse, or a Limited Registration period for local businesses or an eligibility check
on accredited professionals."</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span> "Underpinning our validation and verification services, we can work with you on the policies of your launch period including:</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span> Rules of eligibility including T&Cs for participation in a Sunrise or Limited Registration period;"</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span> As for "glass houses", and for Marc's later suggestion that I'm a "speculator whose primary interest is in ensuring as many domain names as possible are available to be speculated", I'm prepared to be judge.</span><br>
<span> The total number of new new gTLDs I've ever registered is exactly ZERO (both personally, and through my companies), nor would I register any of them in the future, landrush or GA.</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span> I'm actually arguing *against* my own personal interests, improving access to new gTLD registrants, which might improve their odds of success! (and hurt .com) I'm prepared to live with that risk, against my own self-interest as a .com registrant, because
it's just the right thing to do. I could sit back and watch new gTLDs continue with their train wreck, but instead I'm "guilty" of actually trying to improve the policies (against my own self-interest). I routinely am "exercising independent judgment based
solely on what is in the overall best interest of Internet users and the stability and security of the Internet's system of unique identifiers, irrespective of personal interests and the interests of the entity to which an individual might owe their appointment."
Can everyone say the same, when their positions just happen to coincide with their own personal interests or those of their companies?</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span> It's funny that folks would try to use the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior as a means to try to censor accurate dialog, when it indeed says</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span> "Listen to the views of all stakeholders when considering policy issues"</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span> when folks like Susan are saying stuff like "Let's spend our time fruitfully addressing the gaming, rather than endlessly recirculating this argument." and others continually try to stifle different points of view?</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span> Sincerely,</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span> George Kirikos</span><br>
<span> <a href="tel:(416)%20588-0269" value="+14165880269" target="_blank">416-588-0269</a></span><br>
<span> <a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.leap.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C2c8f996441fa4f002f9608d4df483af0%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636378948705498919&sdata=Obk9L6SKbM0MiNyEgZ8DRGdo0oYh%2FEVxH6zcz%2BaCh70%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">https://na01.safelinks.<wbr>protection.outlook.com/?url=<wbr>http%3A%2F%2Fwww.leap.com%2F&<wbr>data=02%7C01%7C%<wbr>7C2c8f996441fa4f002f9608d4df48<wbr>3af0%<wbr>7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de<wbr>cee1%7C0%7C0%<wbr>7C636378948705498919&sdata=<wbr>Obk9L6SKbM0MiNyEgZ8DRGdo0oYh%<wbr>2FEVxH6zcz%2BaCh70%3D&<wbr>reserved=0</a></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span> On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 11:56 AM, Jeff Neuman <<a href="mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com" target="_blank">jeff.neuman@comlaude.com</a>> wrote:</span><br>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>George,</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Not only is your personal attack on Susan (and our company, Valideus) inaccurate and misleading, but it potentially violates the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior. Your assumptions about Valideus' business model is not at all
true.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Please stick to the issues at hand and refrain from attacks on anyone's motivations. As someone much more virtuous than I has stated "Those that live in glass houses should not throw stones."</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Best regards,</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Jeffrey J. Neuman</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Senior Vice President |Valideus USA | Com Laude USA</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Mclean, VA 22102, United States</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>E: <a href="mailto:jeff.neuman@valideus.com" target="_blank">jeff.neuman@valideus.com</a> or
<a href="mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com" target="_blank">jeff.neuman@comlaude.com</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>T: <a href="tel:(703)%20635-7514" value="+17036357514" target="_blank">+1.703.635.7514</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>M: <a href="tel:(202)%20549-5079" value="+12025495079" target="_blank">+1.202.549.5079</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>@Jintlaw</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>-----Original Message-----</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>From: <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">
gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> </span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>[<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@<wbr>icann.org</a>] On Behalf Of George Kirikos</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 11:29 AM</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>To: <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] FOR REVIEW & DISCUSSION: Draft collated
</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>proposal for Sunrise-related data collection</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Hello,</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 11:16 AM, Susan Payne <<a href="mailto:susan.payne@valideus.com" target="_blank">susan.payne@valideus.com</a>> wrote:</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>A handful of gamers does not equal a failing policy. Let's spend our time fruitfully addressing the gaming, rather than endlessly recirculating this argument.</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>But, 130 sunrise registrations per TLD equals a "successful" policy?</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>The *proportion* of gaming is a huge factor, combined with the absolute level of uptake, to tip the scales here, as well as the costs to other prospective legitimate registrants from jumping the queue.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>What exactly is the standard for a "failed" policy at ICANN? As Jeremy rightly stated, the evidence should not be ignored. For far too long, ICANN has not defined any "success" or "fail" metrics, and that must change.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>I can see why every sunrise is a "success" if part of your business is built upon consulting revenue for sunrises:</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fvalideus.com%2Fservices%2Fvalidation-services&data=02%7C01%7C%7C2c8f996441fa4f002f9608d4df483af0%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636378948705498919&sdata=aEW9GVofBaNRWZfun1p1dTwlGbE5qd1qZAbUK6dSXyA%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">https://na01.safelinks.<wbr>protection.outlook.com/?url=<wbr>https%3A%2F%2Fvalideus.com%<wbr>2Fservices%2Fvalidation-<wbr>services&data=02%7C01%7C%<wbr>7C2c8f996441fa4f002f9608d4df48<wbr>3af0%<wbr>7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de<wbr>cee1%7C0%7C0%<wbr>7C636378948705498919&sdata=<wbr>aEW9GVofBaNRWZfun1p1dTwlGbE5qd<wbr>1qZAbUK6dSXyA%3D&reserved=0</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>but most folks can easily adjust to a landrush-only system, instead, which is clearly superior overall. While some "sunrise consultants"</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>might lose out, just as buggy whip producers went out of business, everyone else was better off -- that's progress. Indeed, some sunrise consultants might become "landrush consultants" instead...</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Sincerely,</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>George Kirikos</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="tel:(416)%20588-0269" value="+14165880269" target="_blank">416-588-0269</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.leap.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C2c8f996441fa4f002f9608d4df483af0%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636378948705498919&sdata=Obk9L6SKbM0MiNyEgZ8DRGdo0oYh%2FEVxH6zcz%2BaCh70%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">https://na01.safelinks.<wbr>protection.outlook.com/?url=<wbr>http%3A%2F%2Fwww.leap.com%2F&<wbr>data=02%7C01%7C%<wbr>7C2c8f996441fa4f002f9608d4df48<wbr>3af0%<wbr>7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de<wbr>cee1%7C0%7C0%<wbr>7C636378948705498919&sdata=<wbr>Obk9L6SKbM0MiNyEgZ8DRGdo0oYh%<wbr>2FEVxH6zcz%2BaCh70%3D&<wbr>reserved=0</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>______________________________<wbr>_________________</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>gnso-rpm-wg mailing list</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
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