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<p>Paul, which I see that famous brands face additional risks, any
proposal to limit protection would open an endless can of worms
that I think we should avoid, if only for simplicities sake. Where
would one draw the line? Is a brand that just did not qualify
really that different from a brand that barely qualifies? How to
mitigate the legal risks for those that do not qualify? Etc, etc.</p>
<p>Essentially, this would propose that a new class of trademarks be
created: Those that deserve special protection. But that is really
not ICANNs role, but a regulatory problem.</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Volker<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 12.08.2017 um 18:35 schrieb Paul
Tattersfield:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAF5NKX6p-Vg5fGhUk-9CxSPtiA=xk0+jTLrGhPo=mtC=sqf7iw@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
Thanks for all the replies. I’ll try George K’s approach and
respond to all the replies in one place.<br>
<br>
Volker Greimann wrote:<br>
>Why should "Top brands" receive better protection than any
other (lesser known) brands?<br>
<br>
Volker, I’m not sure all marks really need or indeed even
benefit from Sunrise. Certainly in our market 1 – 500 employees
I can’t think of a company, including ones which trade around
the world rather than just their domestic market, for which
Sunrise would serve any useful purpose. Quite simply they are
just not on the radar for abuse that Microsoft, PayPal and Apple
etc. have to put up with.<br>
<br>
If ICANN had taken a different approach to new gTLDs say
allowing a quite limited number of new gTLDs in each round then
Sunrise may have remained more critical, however it seems each
release of new gTLDs generates a lower level and lower level of
initial demand for which Sunrise is targeted.<br>
<br>
George, thanks for the links to the Melbourne IT proposal
article at Domain Incite. I think the Melbourne IT (High At-Risk
Marks (HARM) has a number of failings the largest of which is
suggesting dictionary words should be treated differently. It if
is deemed Microsoft warrants additional protections then Apple
should enjoy the same level of protection.<br>
<br>
John, I agree the really high profile non-profits and IGOs like
UNHCR would need to be included.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 3:03 PM, Maxim
Alzoba <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:m.alzoba@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">m.alzoba@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Hello Paul,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am not sure this method of selection is all
inclusive, and thus I am afraid we won't be able to use
it</div>
<div>(TMCH is not only for top companies).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
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<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div>Sincerely Yours,<br>
<br>
Maxim Alzoba<br>
Special projects manager,<br>
International Relations Department,<br>
FAITID<br>
<br>
m. <a href="tel:+7%20916%20676-15-80"
value="+79166761580" target="_blank"
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6761580</a><span
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<div class="h5">
<br>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Aug 11, 2017, at 16:58, Paul
Tattersfield <<a
href="mailto:gpmgroup@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gpmgroup@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br
class="m_-2687093926538907281Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>Could we use a list of the top brands
to establish eligibility for sunise to
remove gaming once and for all?<br>
<br>
Here's a list of 500 as an example.<br>
<a
href="http://brandirectory.com/league_tables/table/global-500-2012"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://brandirectory.com/leagu<wbr>e_tables/table/global-500-2012</a><br>
<br>
</div>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
</div>
Paul.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 11,
2017 at 2:44 PM, Volker Greimann <span
dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I will not
dispute the effectiveness of Sunrise
periods for rights holders, however
there may be better options that provide
just as much protection but have less
impact on the release of a new TLD.<br>
<br>
For example, sunrise could be run
concurrently with the general launch of
a TLD simply by removing the eligible
sunrise domain names from the pool of
available domain names. Rights holders
could still use their TMCH-tokens to
register these semi-reserved strings as
domain names but the release of the TLD
to the general public would not be held
back. Other potential registrants would
merely receive a notice that this string
is reserved until date X due to claimed
rights of third parties (which could
double as an abbreviated claims notice),
or even opt to queue their registration
request until the reservation period is
over.<br>
<br>
This would actually solve many of the
existing issues.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Volker
<div>
<div class="m_-2687093926538907281h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 11.08.2017 um 15:12 schrieb
Nahitchevansky, Georges:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
I was not going to engage in yet
more back and forth on sunrise,
but in reading your email, and
those of several others, I feel
compelled to say something on this
by the numbers discussion. This
type of metric driven approach is
very much akin to driving down a
road with blinders on either side.
It's a tad pedantic and as we know
from history these types of
approaches (many times pushed by
bureaucrats) can often lead to
disastrous decisions (e.g. Soviet
style five year plans). You need
to look at the overall situation
and what is going on, as opposed
to just getting caught up in the
numbers -- which after all can get
sliced and diced any number of
ways. The reality is that brand
owners are using sunrise to
protect their brands in the key
extensions that relate to their
businesses. The numbers may not be
huge per se, but the new gTLD
program has pretty much, by all
accounts, not been the success
that ICANN had hoped for.
Moreover, we all know that the
success of the extensions has been
quite uneven. Some are barely
breaking even, some have been a
great success, others have failed
and yet others have only
experienced lackluster results.
What all of this means is that
some extensions are simply not
worth registering in.<br>
<br>
That being said, sunrise does have
an important value. If there are
up to 100,000 plus registrations
based on bona fide brands, and
some on the most valuable brands
in the world, then the system is
working as it is preventing a
significant amount of
cybersquatting . If we go by he
metrics you love, then it is not
rocket science to figure out that
a landrush approach is going to
lead to a large spike of abuse (as
we have seen in the past in no
sunrise situations). This in turn
leads to significant costs of
investigating and pursuing
infringements, all of which
ultimately leads to more costs to
consumers and loss of faith in
the integrity of the system --
particularly if consumers get
tricked or defrauded by a domain
name that appears to be related to
a brand (e.g., Gucci.shoes) and
which could have been registered
during a sunrise period.<br>
<br>
So while I understand that brand
owners are not making sunrise
registrations across 1000 plus
extensions, the point is that they
are generally picking the most
logical extensions and are not
abusing the sunrise system. So
whether the number is one percent
or less or ten percent, that
number doesn't really tell the
story. 100,000 plus sunrise
registrations prevents a ton of
abuse, which benefits everyone in
the end. The numbers only approach
really misses the mark. It's like
saying that if a disease affects
less that 1% of the world
population, we should not waste
money on finding a cure for it and
stop all funding on such research
(even though the costs of treating
the disease for the less than 1%
will be staggeringly high).<br>
<br>
So in closing, I again urge you to
concentrate on trying to find a
fix to address the limited
speculator issue as opposed to
beating a dead horse on the
sunrise issue.<br>
<br>
<br>
Original Message<br>
From: George Kirikos<br>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017
12:22 AM<br>
To: gnso-rpm-wg<br>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] 99%+
reduction in sunrise utilization
rate per TLD supports EFF call for
elimination of sunrise<br>
<br>
Hello,<br>
<br>
On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 11:21 PM,
Greg Shatan <<a
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
I don't see the math that
created your "talking point" of
a "99%+ reduction<br>
in sunrise." Can you show your
work please?<br>
</blockquote>
The post at:<br>
<br>
<a
href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/2017-August/002321.html"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/<wbr>gnso-rpm-wg/2017-August/002321<wbr>.html</a><br>
<br>
showed numerous sunrise
statistics, ranging from 15,000 on
the low end<br>
for .mobi (.co was slightly lower,
although that's a ccTLD, not a TLD<br>
that ICANN is involved with in any
way), 32,000 for .asia, 80,000 for<br>
.biz/.xxx, and who knows what it
was for .info?<br>
<br>
Even taking the lowest of those
(15,000) as the base, 130 (average<br>
new gTLD sunrise from The Analysis
Group report) divided by 15,000 =<br>
0.0087 = 0.87%, which is less than
1%, i.e. a 99%+ reduction. Of<br>
course, if one chose a higher base
(.asia, .xxx, .biz, .etc.), or an<br>
average of those other sunrises,
the reduction is even greater than
if<br>
one had used the lowest sunrise
(from .mobi).<br>
<br>
As for your other statement:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
We can't expect Sunrise
registrations to outperform the
New gTLD Program generally."<br>
</blockquote>
While the new gTLD program has
been a disaster, it hasn't been an<br>
underperformance of 99%+ of
expectations (perhaps more like
80% to 90%<br>
underperformance). Thus, while
it's obvious that both have been<br>
failures, sunrise usage is an even
greater failure than new gTLDs<br>
overall. So, even on that relative
scale, the sunrise period should
be<br>
eliminated.<br>
<br>
Since I know you'll ask "George,
why do you say there's been an 80%
or<br>
90% underpeformance for new
gTLDs?" let me answer that now to
save<br>
time. I'll use as my reference
(besides the obvious general<br>
observations of most informed
observers) ICANN's own stats:<br>
<br>
<a
href="http://domainincite.com/18857-new-gtld-sales-miss-icann-estimates-by-a-mile"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://domainincite.com/18857-<wbr>new-gtld-sales-miss-icann-esti<wbr>mates-by-a-mile</a><br>
<br>
where the numbers came in at just
18% of ICANN's original 2014<br>
expectations. For the
math-challenged, 100% - 18% = 82%
as the level<br>
of underperformance.<br>
<br>
Sincerely,<br>
<br>
George Kirikos<br>
<a href="tel:416-588-0269"
value="+14165880269"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">416-588-0269</a><br>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
gnso-rpm-wg mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg</a></pre>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
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Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
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Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
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CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
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