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<p>Hi all, <br>
<br>
Rather interesting what George dug up here.<br>
<br>
But how do we judge this?<br>
<br>
As a Registrar, and we are not brand focussed at all, as we are a
Wholesale Registrar, I do note that that sunrise period does seem
to work for resellers who want to use it for their customers. <br>
UDRP, besides some personal issues it seems to work for most
folks?<br>
<br>
From my perspective, there is this survey that George questions
due to the low amount of participants. <br>
<br>
I am looking at what I see in the real world, and I do not see
many issues currently. Sure there could be improvements, but
again how do we judge this? I am just looking at the reality of
things, and so far things are somewhat okay. <br>
<br>
How do we connect this and gap the divide?<br>
<br>
Thanks, <br>
</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
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Geurts </p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
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</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:
16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;">Compliance
& Policy Officer | <span style="font-size: 12pt;">Realtime
Register B.V.</span></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:
16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
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</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:
16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;">Ceintuurbaan
32A</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
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16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
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normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
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text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;">8024
AA - ZWOLLE - The Netherlands</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
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16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
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normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
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</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:
16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;">T:
+31.384530759</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:
16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
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text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;">F:
+31.384524734</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:
16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
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text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;">U:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.realtimeregister.com">www.realtimeregister.com</a></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:
16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
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normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;">E:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:legal@realtimeregister.com">legal@realtimeregister.com</a></p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:
16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;">Skype:
geurts.theo</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 30-8-2017 22:02, George Kirikos
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CALAsOBmmx=8_wDrqUG80fi1rY6Jr7nzF7woz6zgEfww+7tai+A@mail.gmail.com">
<pre wrap="">Hi Lori,
[It's "George", by the way. There's another person named "Georges" on this list]
I already submitted my comments, nearly 24 hours ago, and already gave
ample notice. The 2nd paragraph of my email even said:
"and make these statements in advance of the call, so that Lori or
INTA/Nielsen have a
chance to rebut"
The questions I ask will flow from that analysis, today's followup,
and also Kurt's email (since he won't be there to ask them himself).
There are no surprises here. No one's trying to ambush you.
Here's the very first question I will ask:
"In order to draw valid conclusions from a survey, the sample must be
both randomly selected, and the sample size be of sufficient size.
Isn't it correct that the INTA survey is (a) a self-selected,
non-random and unrepresentative sample, and (b) far too small, in
order to make any statistically reliable conclusions about the larger
population it purports to represent?"
Any answer but "Yes, you're correct George" will be difficult to
defend. The emails (from both myself and Kurt) give clear examples
demonstrating how unrepresentative it is, and even links to relevant
calculators for determining how large a sample size needs to be for
various error margins, etc.
After that, assuming you answer "Yes", a natural followup would be "Do
you withdraw the study?" The best answer to that would be "Yes". Note,
that the invitation (very politely offered -- to save everyone time)
was given to withdraw it 8 hours before the conference call. It's now
7 hours before the conference call.
Sincerely,
George Kirikos
416-588-0269
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.leap.com/">http://www.leap.com/</a>
On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 3:45 PM, Lori Schulman <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lschulman@inta.org"><lschulman@inta.org></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Georges,
I am going to ask that all tough questions be put in writing so I can review
and discuss with the survey’s administrators if I can’t answer them myself.
As you noted, there is a low response rate and the analysis is complex and
may not apply to this group’s work. If you have your questions already
formulated, please submit them to the list.
Lori
Lori S. Schulman
Senior Director, Internet Policy
International Trademark Association (INTA)
+1-202-704-0408, Skype: lsschulman
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
On Behalf Of George Kirikos
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 3:29 PM
To: gnso-rpm-wg <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org"><gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org></a>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Critique of INTA survey
Lori,
It is false to say the my comments have any bias or hostility. They
are sound arguments. I was open to it being a scientifically valid
survey, but then I read it, multiple times. So did Kurt (maybe not
multiple times for him!?!?), who I have no affiliation with.
I don't know whether the working group chairs were aware of the
study's deep flaws before they made the invitation to present it, or
had even read it, but now they do. If they want to keep the schedule,
I'll be there to ask the tough questions tonight, and let the PDP
members that want to try to defend it do so.
Sincerely,
George Kirikos
416-588-0269
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.leap.com/">http://www.leap.com/</a>
On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 3:22 PM, Lori Schulman <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lschulman@inta.org"><lschulman@inta.org></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Dear All,
This working group chairs requested that I present INTA’s survey results
and
that I what I intend to do. I am here to present existing data. It is up
to the group to decide if there is any value here. George comments show
immediate bias and hostility toward the work before we have even started a
discussion. I have stated all along that the study was intended for
another
purpose and that we had challenges with conducting it. If the PDP WG
wishes to exclude the findings that is for the group to decide. Everything
we do is a learning. George, if you feel that this evening’s call will
have little or no value to your participation, you have the option of not
dialing in and listening to the recording at your convenience.
Lori
Lori S. Schulman
Senior Director, Internet Policy
International Trademark Association (INTA)
+1-202-704-0408, Skype: lsschulman
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
On Behalf Of George Kirikos
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 3:05 PM
To: gnso-rpm-wg <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org"><gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org></a>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Critique of INTA survey
P.S. There are roughly 8 hours to go until our scheduled call. I would
invite Lori and/or INTA to simply withdraw the paper from this PDP
(and the other ICANN group to which it was presented), since
ultimately it is not a scientifically valid study. Any conclusions
from it are indefensible.
It would bring more credibility to INTA to withdraw it, in my opinion,
recognizing it as deeply flawed now, rather than to attempt to defend
it for 90 minutes tonight, and ultimately see it abandoned/ignored by
the PDP. As a group, we're always seeking efficiencies --- withdrawing
this paper and giving everyone back their Wednesday night appears to
me to be "low hanging fruit" in that regard.
The sooner it's withdrawn, the more time folks will have to make
arrangements to enjoy their Wednesday evening.
Sincerely,
George Kirikos
416-588-0269
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.leap.com/">http://www.leap.com/</a>
On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 2:13 PM, George Kirikos <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:icann@leap.com"><icann@leap.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi Kurt,
Thanks for mostly agreeing with my analysis. However:
On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 1:47 PM, Kurt Pritz <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:kurt@kjpritz.com"><kurt@kjpritz.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">There was one conclusion I could draw. It states that UDRP and Sunrise
were
the favored rights protection mechanisms, used to a major or moderate
extent
by 67% and 64% of the respondents respectively. The next most utilized
RPMs
were Trademark Claims and URS (by 36% and 27% respectively). To me this
says
that, to those who are in-the-know, Sunrise is a highly-valued RPM and,
therefore, should be continued. (Sorry, George) (see slides 15 and 51)
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
The first part of your conclusion is correct (obviously anyone who
personally benefits from "front of the line" privileges is going to
value it), but the second part (therefore, that it should be
continued) is NOT correct. As a PDP, our job is to weigh the benefits
against the costs of policy choices amongst ALL stakeholders, not just
ones receiving benefits.
Thus, if that was "the one conclusion (you) could draw", and it's now
debunked, then we're left with the truth, that no conclusions can be
drawn from it --- it's for entertainment value only, i.e. it's an
advocacy piece, marketing fluff, not a scientifically-valid survey
that would endure any serious peer review from those in the field of
statistics.
To be clear, I tried to keep yesterday's email as short as possible
(remember, it was a response to a very long document), and didn't
point out every flaw with the survey. To point out another, note that
on page 6 it notes that 67% of responses were from USA and Canada.
However, INTA's own website states that:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.inta.org/Membership/Pages/Membership.aspx">https://www.inta.org/Membership/Pages/Membership.aspx</a>
"63% of our member organizations are outside of North America."
This further reinforces my point that it was an unrepresentative
sample. As we know from election polling, the survey companies make
adjustments in weighting to attempt to compensate for the
unrepresentative samples (e.g. if too many men were sampled relative
to the known proportion, they'd lower the weights accordingly, etc.).
No attempts were made to do this (nor could they credibly have done
so, given the small sample size, and lack of randomness).
This is a classic case of "If you torture the data long enough, it
will confess to anything."
Sincerely,
George Kirikos
416-588-0269
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.leap.com/">http://www.leap.com/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
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