<html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name="Title" content="">
<meta name="Keywords" content="">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:DengXian;
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:-webkit-standard;
panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
span.msoIns
{mso-style-type:export-only;
mso-style-name:"";
text-decoration:underline;
color:teal;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style>
</head>
<body bgcolor="white" lang="EN-US" link="#000000" vlink="purple">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="color:black">Dear All,</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="color:black">Please find the attendance of the call attached to this email. The MP3, Adobe Connect recording and Adobe Connect chat below for the Review of all Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs)</span><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:black">PDP
Working Group call held Thursday, 31 August 2017at 03:00 UTC. Attendance of the call is posted on agenda wiki page: </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black"><a href="https://community.icann.org/x/GhghB"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">https://community.icann.org/x/GhghB</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="line-height:15.6pt"><b><span style="color:black">MP3:</span></b> <span style="color:black">
<a href="http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-rpm-review-31aug17-en.mp3"><span style="color:windowtext">http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-rpm-review-31aug17-en.mp3</span></a>
<b> </b></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="MsoHyperlink"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Adobe Connect recording: </span></b></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"><a href="https://participate.icann.org/p259wa70n1j/"><u><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:blue">https://participate.icann.org/p259wa70n1j/</span></u></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="line-height:15.6pt"><span style="color:black">The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group-2Dactivities_calendar&d=DwMF-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=VqOOufta7uIGpIGDJ5U1cepLELhCsPPoZZC9osq3Hrk&s=eBrYQigfSiOfET2VcOvNtKoUgJHCm4qXeW7zA-dR-is&e="><u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:purple">http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar</span></u><u><span style="color:purple">[gnso.icann.org]</span></u></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="color:black">** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="color:black">Mailing list archives: </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black"><a href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/"><u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:purple">http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/</span></u></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="color:black">Wiki page: </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black"><a href="https://community.icann.org/x/GhghB"><u><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:blue">https://community.icann.org/x/GhghB</span></u></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="color:black">Thank you.</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="color:black">Kind regards,</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="color:black">Michelle </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><b><u><span style="color:black">Adobe Connect chat transcript for 31 August 2017:</span></u></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Michelle DeSmyter:Dear All, Welcome to the Review of All Rights Protection Mechanisms (RPMs) in all gTLDs PDP WG call on Thursday, 31 August 2017 at 03:00 UTC.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Michelle DeSmyter:Agenda wiki page: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_GhghB&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=IQ8x1GW9OSUlPgCYcxyEO06xSrLDElbfuKDSDPDWKGY&s=0zBRCgm3P0D17kj0Zw5ahmpFCjK_tMRASIpCoZw7U6w&e="><u><span style="color:blue">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_GhghB&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=IQ8x1GW9OSUlPgCYcxyEO06xSrLDElbfuKDSDPDWKGY&s=0zBRCgm3P0D17kj0Zw5ahmpFCjK_tMRASIpCoZw7U6w&e=</span></u></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Hello All<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Jonathan Frost (.CLUB):Hi Maxim<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Louise Marie Hurel:Hi everyone<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Jonathan Agmon:hello<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Kathy Kleiman:I've been on told for awhile for the conference bridge. Anyone else having the same experience?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Kathy Kleiman:told -> hold :-)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Michelle DeSmyter:Hi there Kathy, let me speak with the operator and find out what is going on <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Louise Marie Hurel:We can hear you well, Kathy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Kathy Kleiman:Great!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Kathy Kleiman:Mary, Michelle, let's give it the usual extra minute to two.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Kathy Kleiman:Tx to all who have joined us for this call!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Schulman:Hi<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Schulman:There's another interesting sound.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Kathy Kleiman:Can that line be muted?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:Hi folks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Louise Marie Hurel:haha<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Mary Wong:Hi all, please remember to MUTE your mic if you are not speaking, thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Kathy Kleiman:Hi Lori!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Kathy Kleiman:Hi George.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:Are any of the participants here from Asia/Pacific?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Sara Bockey:I see at least one person from apac<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:That's good to know, Sara.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Michael Flemming:These meeting times are greatly appreciated from us in APAC.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Jonathan Agmon:@George I thought you knew everybody ;)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Jonathan Agmon:I am in Singapore...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):I'd recommend to read e-mail from Kurt Pritz about this survey. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:Good idea, Maxim.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):79% of surveyed is >1B revenue ... so it is not so relevant to small and mediumbusiness (page 6)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:That's not 'randomized' -- that's a self-selected survey.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Paul McGrady:@Maxim - do you have a survey to provide that does a better job teasing out data from small and medium businesses? Would love to see it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:Kurt explained the difference.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Paul McGrady:@George - do you have any randomized surveys supporting your views? Would love to see them...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:@Paul: answered on the mailing list already.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Paul, unfortunately not. Our experience (in registrar) that not many companies of this size aware on RPMs at all <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Kathy Kleiman:CCTRT -> Competition, Consumer Trust and Consumer Choice Review Team<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Paul McGrady:@George - noted. The answer was no, you have no surveys supporting your various opinions. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Jon Nevett:ICANN requested the study -- did it help fund it as well?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Mary Wong:@Jon, I don't believe the INTA study was requested by ICANN. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Paul, I m meant small and medium<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Paul McGrady:@Maxim - how could that be? We were all assured that there was a large market for new gTLDs before Round 1 launched...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Jon Nevett:Lori just said that ICANN requested it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:George, your confusing the initial sample and the respondents to the sample. Two different concepts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Paul, it depends on who assured you<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:@Greg: we know it's not representative sample. They even acknowledge the size issue in their report.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:What they don't acknowledge is the size of the invalidity. They understate it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:Those Nielsen people must not know much about surveys.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Kiran Malancharuvil:haha Greg. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:@Greg: they obviously do know better. I pointed that out in my email. Why don't you acknowledge that 33 responses is very, very bad.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Paul McGrady:@Maxim - Ironically, it was the ICANN Economic Survey that was the basis for the community momentum to expand.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Kathy Kleiman 2:Slide 6<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Philip Corwin:Regardless of any critique of its statistical methodology and didsappointment at the response rate, it may still provide useful anecdotal data. It's certainly better than
no data at all.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Paul McGrady:@Greg, ha!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:Higher would be better, but I will refrain from using florid overstatements.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:@Phil: if it's presented simply as unrepresentative anecdotal data, I have no problems with that at all.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):+1 George<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:But, re-read Kurt's diplomatic response -- that's not how it was presented.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:Consantly referencing "INTA members" (i.e. the entire population), rather than results being only for the 33 participants.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Mike Rodenbaugh:INTA has acknowledged that results are an indicator of a trend and not the trend itself, as Lori just said<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Paul McGrady:@Phil - agree. If our basis to submit ideas and data into this group is statistical perfection, that is going to exlcude a lot of inputs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Kathy Kleiman 2:@All: Lori's words are very clear and useful. She is trying to address the issues you have raised.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:@Mike: "indicator of a trend" is a way to massage things, to try to say that it has some validity. That's just not correct.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:A bad survey doesn't tell you anything (good or bad). <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:Results are always only from the participants, George.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Jonathan Agmon:At least there is a report to look at.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:@Greg: the reason we do statistics is to make statements about a larger population, based on data from a sampled subset.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Mike Rodenbaugh:@George I disagree, at least it is anecdotal evidence<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Paul, without knowing the composition of those averages - it goes not give enough info to understand if conclusions are correct<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Louise Marie Hurel:I disagree, George. I believe it is clear towards how the results can be interpreted<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Mike Rodenbaugh:showing cost impacts to large mark owners<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Kiran Malancharuvil:@kathy - agree that lori is doing very well addressing issues. seems like the biggest critics are more interested in the chat room. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Paul McGrady:+1 Jonathan. Disheartened to see folks with no surveys to back their opinion attacking this survey, just because it doesn't fit their narrative.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Kathy Kleiman 2:Slide 9<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:@Paul: Attack my arguments, rather than attack my lack of surveys.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:You can't argue against math.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:George, it's not the sample that responds. Responses to any kind of surveys have to deal with non-response bias, response bias, selection bias, self-selection bias, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):The isue is not the survey, it is about re-presentation, having a survey does not mean it is applicable<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:Statistics principles are pretty well understood.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Mike Rodenbaugh:nobody is saying this is a statistically valid survey<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:@Greg: and size --- did the surrvey even attempt that adjustment? No.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Philip Corwin:Interesting that the RPM regarded as most effective is the legacy UDRP and not any of the new RPMs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:Notice slides constantly refer to "INTA members" (sorry, they're not all numbered, e.g. "average total defense costs per members."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Mike Rodenbaugh:INTA has 1000+ corporate members, mostly large businesses; the 33 responses are indicative of overall experience of those members<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:Notice Lori just said "Our members", not "the 33 members that responded".<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):33 out of 1000 is 3.3%<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Georges Nahitchevansky:George Give it a rest already and let Lori finish her presentation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:I'm not interrupting her, Georges.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:You know what she was referring to. There was a lengthy introduction. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:I think George wants to be on Mystery Science Theatre 3000....<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Sara Bockey:Agree with Georges. Enough. Let Lori do her persentation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> John McElwaine:petty<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Rebecca L Tushnet:How can it be indicative of overall experience when it's not even a representative group of INTA brand owners?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Georges Nahitchevansky:You are interrupting everyone else. You can make your points after she is done<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Scott Austin:+1GeorgeS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Rebecca L Tushnet:I agree that it is useful anecdotal evidence, but it's not about a trend (it's not a time series, among other things)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:@George, do you contend that the user stories this "survey" (quotes provided for your benefit) are invalid simply because there aren't enough
of them?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Brian Winterfeldt:It is more data than we have had to date Rebecca - it is a window if you will - granted not a scientifically perfect one.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Jonathan Agmon:+1 Georges<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Kiran Malancharuvil:+1 Georges <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Paul McGrady:@George, you note that statistics principles are pretty well understood. However, in your earlier email, you indicate you read the survey in horror "(I've read the report
three times now,in horror)." What statistical principle does one use to know when to switch from careful reading to reading it in horror?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Philip Corwin:Lori, I don't see anything in these slides regarding use of private RPMs such as DPML and whether that affected use of sunrise. Were any questions asked about that?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:Folks keep asking me questions, but then say I should wait for Lori to finish. Make up your mind.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:Cute.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Paul McGrady:@George, I think it is fine for you to go ahead and answer my question about reading the survey in horror...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:@Paul: go read the rest of that email. That was the preface, and then I explained it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:First you complain about being asked questions and then you don't answer them. Make up your mind.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:@Greg: I won't be distracted by repetitive questions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:Go re-read what I wrote, and put it on the mailing list.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:I don't see that question in the chat.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> David McAuley:Well presented, thank you Lori<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> J. Scott Evans:thank you lori<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Kiran Malancharuvil:thanks Lori<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:I read what you wrote. Once was more than enough.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Brian Winterfeldt:Thank you Lori!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Sara Bockey:Thanks, Lori<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Cyntia King:Thnanks, Lori.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Brian Winterfeldt:Great summary.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:Thank you Lori.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> John McElwaine:thanks Lori<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):is the full presentation available?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Georges Nahitchevansky:Thank you Lori<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Paul McGrady:Thanks Lori! <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Jon Nevett:Thanks Lori!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:Thank you, Lori.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Philip Corwin:Thanks very much for the presentation, Lori.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Mary Wong:I can put up the study slides if that is hepful.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Scott Austin:Thank you Lori<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Mary Wong:Nielsen slides: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_download_attachments_61606864_INTA-2520Cost-2520Impact-2520Report-2520revised-25204-2D13-2D17-2520v2.1.pdf-3Fversion-3D1-26modificationDate-3D1500376749000-26api-3Dv2&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=MLOyWdAdSdj4cRa39aHRCVYsVa9ub30XpFPLr1fc51I&s=KXW3vtHBAKxxiT4X6sLxZQO2dlKSW8Zc-BhfZ1t7lAA&e="><u><span style="color:blue">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_download_attachments_61606864_INTA-2520Cost-2520Impact-2520Report-2520revised-25204-2D13-2D17-2520v2.1.pdf-3Fversion-3D1-26modificationDate-3D1500376749000-26api-3Dv2&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=MLOyWdAdSdj4cRa39aHRCVYsVa9ub30XpFPLr1fc51I&s=KXW3vtHBAKxxiT4X6sLxZQO2dlKSW8Zc-BhfZ1t7lAA&e=</span></u></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Jonathan Agmon:Thank you Lori!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Mary Wong:Let us (staff) know if anyone wants the Nielsen slides up in AC.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Louise Marie Hurel:Thanks, Lori! I agree with Rebecca. While the report brings interesting data, the discrepancy between the number of those who actually answered the survey challenges
the idea of an actual "indicator of a trend". I believe is a question of "what are the next steps", the follow up<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Lori, It would be interesting to see colmposition of numbers from page 10 (of full report) on price of defensive actions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> J. Scott Evans:George. Quit asking loaded questions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Kiran Malancharuvil:lori addressed this in her presentation <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Kiran Malancharuvil:perhaps George should have listened <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:What was loaded?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:Jane, you ignorant....<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:Don't put words into my mouth.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> J. Scott Evans:@george. You basically asked her to admit that all your criticism is valid and that the study is useless. Ask new questions, we have all seen you review and opinion.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:What words were put in your mouth?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Cyntia King:I have had numerous conversatoins w/ large brand owners who's data is spread across their organization & is difficult to obtain, nevermind share.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:Did I use the word "ignorant"?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Rebecca L Tushnet:Greg, leaving out "slut" doesn't make that quote any less inappropriate.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:You clearly implied it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Brian Winterfeldt:Brand owners spent a lot of time and energy to give us this information and I believe it would be foolish to ignore it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Cyntia King:+1 Brian<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:Implied? I did no such thing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Paul McGrady:+1 Brian<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:I'm shocked, shocked that there's gambling in this establishment.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Paul McGrady:MIchael Graham<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Brian Winterfeldt:It's Michael Graham.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Cyntia King:We should utilize the info as the best available even if imperfect statistically.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Kiran Malancharuvil:+1 Brian<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Kathy Kleiman 2:@Maxim, the full presentation will be circulated to the full WG<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:Agree with Cynthia, these are factually accurate responses at a bare minimum. How to extrapolate them is a reasonable question.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Mary Wong:The full set of Nielsen slides, Lori's presentation today and Lori's previous presentation to the CCT-RT are all posted here: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_GhghB&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=IQ8x1GW9OSUlPgCYcxyEO06xSrLDElbfuKDSDPDWKGY&s=0zBRCgm3P0D17kj0Zw5ahmpFCjK_tMRASIpCoZw7U6w&e="><u><span style="color:blue">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_GhghB&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=IQ8x1GW9OSUlPgCYcxyEO06xSrLDElbfuKDSDPDWKGY&s=0zBRCgm3P0D17kj0Zw5ahmpFCjK_tMRASIpCoZw7U6w&e=</span></u></a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> David McAuley:Thanks Mary<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Cyntia, usually conclusions are quite dependent on the presented info, and having not statistically correct info on the input means you have not correct conclusions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:Exactly, Maxim.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Louise Marie Hurel:@Lori, do you have a detailed list of countries (rather than regions) that contributed?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Schulman:I could ask <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Cyntia King:@Maxim We're not curing cancer. We're tryng to make recommendations to ICANN about RPMs based on the best data available. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Louise Marie Hurel:origin*<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:What do you mean by "statistically correct", Maxim? What is incorrect about these results?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):for example, costs of ICANN compliant costs of 2k USD ... having myself managing all compliants for 2 TLDs and 3 Registrars for few years ... I do not see it relevant<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Paul McGrady:@Maxim - but people draw conclusions all the time in these calls and on the list with no surveys, flawed or otherwise, backing them up. Are all of their conclusions therefore
"not correct"? Or is data perfect only a burden for brand owners alone to carry?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Louise Marie Hurel:Thanks, that would be great, @Lori<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Greg, the issue is that it lacks composition of averages and not representative<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Brian Winterfeldt:It actually took a lot of effort to get as many responses as we had given the time required to complete the survey!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:Imperfect though they may be, they are not incorrect. Every survey, even the most rigorous surveys have flaws.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):I think it could be seen as a source of anecdotal data<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:@Greg: it's the extrapolation to say that the results of the small sample also apply to the larger population that is the issue.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):+1 George<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:It's a flaw to do so, given the circumstances.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:Maxim, what do you mean by "composition of averages"?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:As anecdotes, fine. Weighted accordingly.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Georges Nahitchevansky:So all of George K's so called anecdotal information over the past months should be discarded by your logic as in many instances, as others have pointed out,
the so called evidence is based on questionable and flawed analysis and speculation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:George, this does not have to be binary, thought you want it to be. It<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Cyntia King:Biz decisions are often made best on best available data. There is a tradeoff: time/money vs. perfect data that groups like this must make in order to make reasonable & timely
decisions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:Georges: I'm not presenting any anecdotes as more than what they are, which Kurt even acknowledged INTA has been doing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:This is not merely anecdotal.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Greg, kit is about 150k USD costs ... <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):*it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:At best it is, Greg. Do you really believe these results apply to ALL Trademark holders, worldwide? (non-INTA and INTA combined, the entire population of TM holders)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:You've lost me.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Cyntia King:+1 Lori<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:Again, you are trying to be binary. That's not what I said, and that's a good example of a loaded question.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Mike Rodenbaugh:INTA corporate members are generally large businesses; it is fair to extrapolate the experience of 33 responders across the broader group of 1000 members.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Schulman:Agree with Rodenbaugh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Michael Flemming:Question: The average total defense costs per company on slide 13 (I think), is that inclusive of individual worker's salaries or only the cost of the defensive action
itself?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:I think that's a fair way to look at it, Mike.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Rebecca L Tushnet:MIke, that's not even true on the study's own numbers, as far as I can tell--billion dollar companies overresponded<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Mary Wong:@Michael, do you mean Slide 13 of the nielsen deck or this presentation?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Michael Flemming:This one<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Michael Flemming:Thank you, Lori.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:Rebecca, Mike said extrapolate. He did not get into the methods that would be use to extrapolate.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Mike Rodenbaugh:@Rebecca yes those companies have better resources to prepare these responses<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Philip Corwin:Q-What if anything does this study tell us about efficacy of the new RPMs and whether and how they should be modified?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Mike Rodenbaugh:you may have a point as to some of the numbers, i.e. dollars spent; but we can extrapolate many of the 'percentage' numbers quite fairly<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):an average of 79% of companies >1B turnover might mean few companies spending a lot comparing to others<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Rebecca L Tushnet:Sure, Mike, but that means you can't extrapolate even to INTA brand owners<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Georges Nahitchevansky:And to the type of business involved<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Cyntia King:@Phiip orwin That tis the right question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Rebecca L Tushnet:At least not without rejiggering the numbers to match the ratios<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Mike it would be not fair to extrapolate from that<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:Exactly, Rebecca.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Rebecca L Tushnet:And correspondingly increase the confidence intervals<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:+1 Rebecca.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:If one keeps torturing that data, though, with only 33 responses, essentially you can't say much that is statistically valid, though.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Philip Corwin:Thanks Cyntia. I have alwaus found that if you don't ask the right question you will likely not get a useful answer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Mike Rodenbaugh:@Phil that is the core question; imho it at least shows some value to the RPMs -- and we have seen little to no actual evidence of any harm from them<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:i.e. "50% +/- 50%" will be the result.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Georges Nahitchevansky:e.g. a finance company would probably have more fraud and phishing issues than a dog food company. So costs would be higher for the finance company<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> J. Scott Evans:The conclusion of the survey falls in line with the economic surveys ICANN did in the early 2000's and echo the myriad of public comments submitted by brand owenrs throughout
the new gTLD process<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Michael Flemming:Very helpful, Michael. Thank you very much!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Brian Winterfeldt:+1 J. Scott<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:The issues for different sectors are different, not necessarily less or more.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Kiran Malancharuvil:yes j scott. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Cyntia King:@J. Scott Evans Verey interesting<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:J Scott -- Very good point, and informs how we look at these results.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):it would be hard to build consensus on basis of this report<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:We can't build consensus on this report because it only reflect data about brand owners. It doesn't mean the brand owner stories are wrong.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Brian Winterfeldt:+1 Cyntia<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):it gives us anecdotal information <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:Exactly, Maxim.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:We will still discuss other stakeholders as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:this study doesn't mean we won't also hear from them.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:Some folks just don't appear to understand statistics.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:It gives us more than anecdotal information, as much as you try to stuff it down.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:Perhaps ICANN needs to hire people, on staff, for statistics expertise.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Mary Wong:If it helps, note that this Working Group is also proposing more surveys - of regisries, registrars, brand owners, registrants - for more anecdotal evidence.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Michael R Graham:The results of the survey are what they are. They are, frankly, far more than the information we have from other stakeholders and groups.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Paul McGrady:@George - I take exception at your denegrating INTA Staff.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Philip Corwin:It would have been very surprising if more than a thousand new gTLDs did not generate some additional costs for TM owners. But, again, the focus of this study was costs,
while the focus of our work is efficacy, balance, and potential RPM modifications.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:@Mary: it won't be anecdotal data --- if it's random, a large sample, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Mary Wong:@George, the proposal is for anecdotal evidence for the most part.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Kristine Dorrain - Amazon Registry Services:I was not part of any discussion group where we decided we were only ever going to look at fully validated surveys with a margin of error of
0.5. we have always said we'd look at whatever data we could get.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:@Paul: stop putting words in my mouth.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Michael R Graham:Anecdotal evidence has its own value.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> David McAuley:Thanks Kathy, Lori, and all, good bye<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):bye all<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Michael R Graham:Thanks all.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Jonathan Agmon:Thank you all<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> J. Scott Evans:ciao<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> George Kirikos:Bye folks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Philip Corwin:Bye all. have a great Labor Day!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Brian Winterfeldt:By everyone. Thank you Kathy.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Louise Marie Hurel:Bye all. Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Kiran Malancharuvil:thanks <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> John McElwaine: bye<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Scott Austin:Thanks all<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Greg Shatan:Bye all. Thanks all, esp. Lori.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"-webkit-standard",serif"> Schulman:It was my pleasure. Really...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>