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--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Kathy and George,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>This is noted.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Best,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Mary, Ariel, Berry, and Julie<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Kathy Kleiman <kathy@kathykleiman.com><br><b>Date: </b>Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 9:45 AM<br><b>To: </b>"gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org>, Julie Hedlund <julie.hedlund@icann.org><br><b>Subject: </b>[Ext] Re: [gnso-rpm-wg] Possible Technical Bug in URS implementations<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p>Hi George,<o:p></o:p></p><p>You're absolutely right. One of my browsers did not resolve to the bcg.app site. Another of my browsers did resolve and properly showed the suspension message: "The Domain Name you’ve entered is not available. It has been taken down as a result of dispute resolution proceedings pursuant to the Uniform Rapid Suspension System (URS) or .us Rapid Suspension System (usRS) Procedure and Rules." <o:p></o:p></p><p>I think the policy is pretty clear, but the implementation is definitely lacking. <o:p></o:p></p><p><i>Staff, could you kindly add this to the list of issues we should be considered on the URS? </i>Obviously, if a domain name is suspended, browsers should know.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Tx you, George! <o:p></o:p></p><p>Best, Kathy<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 6/4/2018 6:54 PM, George Kirikos wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>The first URS case involving a .app domain was decided (in favour of<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>the complainant), for bcg.app.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.adrforum.com_domaindecisions_1785973D.htm&d=DwMDaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=adDIs0WEx_lLwFfrsdovxTYY8GkRHo5ibc8SR3Npdh8&m=Ijn6LsNj4Y-XDVXpKgw4O9R7XZFtlnqZrdHRoljEPvE&s=SVg4SH3m1ifM_xAPjx9zeEACPSGTNQ8K-8o-ltYW-3k&e=">http://www.adrforum.com/domaindecisions/1785973D.htm [adrforum.com]</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>As I predicted earlier in this thread, the technical bug is evident,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>as there's no HTTPS page for bcg.app, i.e.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__bcg.app_&d=DwMDaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=adDIs0WEx_lLwFfrsdovxTYY8GkRHo5ibc8SR3Npdh8&m=Ijn6LsNj4Y-XDVXpKgw4O9R7XZFtlnqZrdHRoljEPvE&s=MK20NhWPi8viY1jPFJVQGhXK0XWeYvLNpZK8Es61ef4&e=">https://bcg.app/ [bcg.app]</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>doesn't serve up the suspension page. If one attempts to load the HTTP<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>version of the page VIA AN OLDER BROWSER (i.e. one that doesn't<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>observe the HSTS preload list), one can see the standard suspension<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>page at:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__bcg.app_&d=DwMDaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=adDIs0WEx_lLwFfrsdovxTYY8GkRHo5ibc8SR3Npdh8&m=Ijn6LsNj4Y-XDVXpKgw4O9R7XZFtlnqZrdHRoljEPvE&s=PL_SDciuJ5ZlyLIOxrWKFmXW1CPgy84FcBDdYF581GU&e=">http://bcg.app/ [bcg.app]</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>However, for a modern browser (e.g. the latest version of Chrome) that<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>is enforcing the HSTS preload list which doesn't permit non-HTTPS<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>pages for .app, the suspension page isn't loading.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>The need for either a better policy (one that more clearly requires<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>both HTTPS and HTTP versions of the suspension page) and/or better<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>implementation by the URS providers, is evident.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>George Kirikos<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>416-588-0269<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.leap.com_&d=DwMDaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=adDIs0WEx_lLwFfrsdovxTYY8GkRHo5ibc8SR3Npdh8&m=Ijn6LsNj4Y-XDVXpKgw4O9R7XZFtlnqZrdHRoljEPvE&s=m8MOGMxzE4BA2JNS0U-qCUuXr--HeBWEz3bvvvwLo2c&e=">http://www.leap.com/ [leap.com]</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 3:17 PM, George Kirikos <a href="mailto:icann@leap.com"><icann@leap.com></a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>Just to followup, according to the search tool at NAF:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.adrforum.com_SearchDecisions&d=DwMDaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=adDIs0WEx_lLwFfrsdovxTYY8GkRHo5ibc8SR3Npdh8&m=Ijn6LsNj4Y-XDVXpKgw4O9R7XZFtlnqZrdHRoljEPvE&s=V54HQNmWRjs7Q0YovQz2EoEqUE6aNGCdWk1jm2CgKRI&e=">http://www.adrforum.com/SearchDecisions [adrforum.com]</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>there are several URS disputes in progress for .app domains, including:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>bcg.app<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>skx.app<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>oliverwyman.app<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>skechers.app<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>We should know relatively soon whether the suspension pages for these<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>domains (if decided in favour of the complainants) are served via<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>HTTPS, to be compatible with the HSTS preload setting that Google has<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>applied to the entire .app TLD.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>George Kirikos<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>416-588-0269<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.leap.com_&d=DwMDaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=adDIs0WEx_lLwFfrsdovxTYY8GkRHo5ibc8SR3Npdh8&m=Ijn6LsNj4Y-XDVXpKgw4O9R7XZFtlnqZrdHRoljEPvE&s=m8MOGMxzE4BA2JNS0U-qCUuXr--HeBWEz3bvvvwLo2c&e=">http://www.leap.com/ [leap.com]</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 8:31 AM, George Kirikos <a href="mailto:icann@leap.com"><icann@leap.com></a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>Six days and no replies.....I'll just post the issue here, in the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>hopes it gets to the right people (and to highlight the policy issue).<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>As members of this PDP are aware, after a complainant wins a URS<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>dispute, the URS provider is supposed to create a suspension page for<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>the domain name. For example, at 2 of the 3 URS providers (the 3rd<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>doesn't seem to have any active suspensions at the moment):<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>MFSD: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__reima.top&d=DwMDaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=adDIs0WEx_lLwFfrsdovxTYY8GkRHo5ibc8SR3Npdh8&m=Ijn6LsNj4Y-XDVXpKgw4O9R7XZFtlnqZrdHRoljEPvE&s=q1ZSe_f7G4MPwPiLrl3pV28HA3GBxWL6QfAGl1mTtEU&e=">http://reima.top [reima.top]</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>NAF: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__wikipedia.kim&d=DwMDaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=adDIs0WEx_lLwFfrsdovxTYY8GkRHo5ibc8SR3Npdh8&m=Ijn6LsNj4Y-XDVXpKgw4O9R7XZFtlnqZrdHRoljEPvE&s=t16Y2ovyWa3LmsbG4MYIXLskb1V347f5olwQtzy7AFk&e=">http://wikipedia.kim [wikipedia.kim]</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>However, Google recently launched .app, which has a unique feature,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>namely that the entire TLD is on the HSTS preload list:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__get.app&d=DwMDaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=adDIs0WEx_lLwFfrsdovxTYY8GkRHo5ibc8SR3Npdh8&m=Ijn6LsNj4Y-XDVXpKgw4O9R7XZFtlnqZrdHRoljEPvE&s=8z8QspRkOwYgVmfMGsoKXwxc4YR3aI-Ad8rm312MOuI&e=">https://get.app [get.app]</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>"The .app top-level domain is included on the HSTS preload list,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>making HTTPS required on all connections to .app websites — no<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>individual HSTS registration or configuration required."<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>This means that unless the URS providers launch HTTPS versions of<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>their suspension pages, the HTTP version won't be accessible for .app<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>domains. Given the relatively high number of .app domains that were<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>registered already, one would expect .app URS complaints to be<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>forthcoming.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>One can easily check that the 2 URS providers don't appear to be<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>serving HTTPS versions of their suspension pages at present, see:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>MFSD: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__reima.top&d=DwMDaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=adDIs0WEx_lLwFfrsdovxTYY8GkRHo5ibc8SR3Npdh8&m=Ijn6LsNj4Y-XDVXpKgw4O9R7XZFtlnqZrdHRoljEPvE&s=wOFS0JEGv34ILDNuMj3VUQTrxY2EZ9Ng7Pg3-LdtV9s&e=">https://reima.top [reima.top]</a> (clicking through the SSL warnings takes ones<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>to a MFSD page)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>NAF: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__wikipedia.kim&d=DwMDaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=adDIs0WEx_lLwFfrsdovxTYY8GkRHo5ibc8SR3Npdh8&m=Ijn6LsNj4Y-XDVXpKgw4O9R7XZFtlnqZrdHRoljEPvE&s=TRC6efuFeWMIqFL-YwwSrh5c-gaobTNGlT-_Ti0L-nM&e=">https://wikipedia.kim [wikipedia.kim]</a> (connection refused; presumably their<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>webserver isn't listening at that port)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>As for ICANN policy, the URS Technical Requirements at:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__newgtlds.icann.org_en_applicants_urs_tech-2Drequirements-2D17oct13-2Den.pdf&d=DwMDaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=adDIs0WEx_lLwFfrsdovxTYY8GkRHo5ibc8SR3Npdh8&m=Ijn6LsNj4Y-XDVXpKgw4O9R7XZFtlnqZrdHRoljEPvE&s=clbbz3vWhwBWlN89hOd5PotBBm70l6gUNhMeqSd7zo0&e=">http://newgtlds.icann.org/en/applicants/urs/tech-requirements-17oct13-en.pdf [newgtlds.icann.org]</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>merely say, on page 1:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>"A URS Suspended domain name will be redirected to a webpage that<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>mentions that the domain name has been suspended because of a URS<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Complaint."<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>It didn't specify whether the "webpage" should be delivered via HTTP,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>or HTTPS, or both. A clearer set of requirements here would have<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>avoided the issue.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>There are likely still a few weeks before the first .app URS complaint<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>is decided, so sufficient time for a fix. I figure this issue can be<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>solved for under $20/month, for those who know what they're doing<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>technically.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>By the way, the implementation of suspension pages seems to differ<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>across providers. e.g. NAF wildcards (*.example.com) the subdomains,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>so that:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gjkhjhg.wikipedia.kim&d=DwMDaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=adDIs0WEx_lLwFfrsdovxTYY8GkRHo5ibc8SR3Npdh8&m=Ijn6LsNj4Y-XDVXpKgw4O9R7XZFtlnqZrdHRoljEPvE&s=R8iT12BhXKnL5tEYmF711agIAPzX_Ald7ehLb9zQEjk&e=">http://gjkhjhg.wikipedia.kim [gjkhjhg.wikipedia.kim]</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__anything.wikipedia.kim&d=DwMDaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=adDIs0WEx_lLwFfrsdovxTYY8GkRHo5ibc8SR3Npdh8&m=Ijn6LsNj4Y-XDVXpKgw4O9R7XZFtlnqZrdHRoljEPvE&s=V7NqnQTIL2dqV6UUD6N9GxRFgUD7GcfoLIvuH6Eivfo&e=">http://anything.wikipedia.kim [anything.wikipedia.kim]</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>deliver the page. MFSD only handles the "www" subdomain (and the naked<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>domain itself). Neither of the 2 handle "internal" pages beyond the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>"home" page, e.g.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__wikipedia.kim_lalala&d=DwMDaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=adDIs0WEx_lLwFfrsdovxTYY8GkRHo5ibc8SR3Npdh8&m=Ijn6LsNj4Y-XDVXpKgw4O9R7XZFtlnqZrdHRoljEPvE&s=VwusPq-n50r4v5UWrstECsGHlROsvRg9g1P9InBRbrs&e=">http://wikipedia.kim/lalala [wikipedia.kim]</a> --- 404 error<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__reima.top_lalala&d=DwMDaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=adDIs0WEx_lLwFfrsdovxTYY8GkRHo5ibc8SR3Npdh8&m=Ijn6LsNj4Y-XDVXpKgw4O9R7XZFtlnqZrdHRoljEPvE&s=r3SSSr1APLtzw1uzMyVrjSqAuOSzXVDiKaCa6Ps-LoY&e=">http://reima.top/lalala [reima.top]</a> -- 404 error<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>With minor configuration changes, those URLs currently serving up a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>404 error could instead serve the suspension notice.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>George Kirikos<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>416-588-0269<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.leap.com_&d=DwMDaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=adDIs0WEx_lLwFfrsdovxTYY8GkRHo5ibc8SR3Npdh8&m=Ijn6LsNj4Y-XDVXpKgw4O9R7XZFtlnqZrdHRoljEPvE&s=m8MOGMxzE4BA2JNS0U-qCUuXr--HeBWEz3bvvvwLo2c&e=">http://www.leap.com/ [leap.com]</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 10:49 PM, George Kirikos <a href="mailto:icann@leap.com"><icann@leap.com></a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>Hi folks,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>I believe I've uncovered a technical bug in the URS implementation.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Does anyone here know the best method to report it? It might require a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>policy change (due to the ambiguity of the policy's requirements on<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>providers) or updated documentation, as well as implementation changes<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>by providers, in order to fix it.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>The bug isn't manifesting itself at the moment, but is almost certain<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>to be visible to others in a short time.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>George Kirikos<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>416-588-0269<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.leap.com_&d=DwMDaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=adDIs0WEx_lLwFfrsdovxTYY8GkRHo5ibc8SR3Npdh8&m=Ijn6LsNj4Y-XDVXpKgw4O9R7XZFtlnqZrdHRoljEPvE&s=m8MOGMxzE4BA2JNS0U-qCUuXr--HeBWEz3bvvvwLo2c&e=">http://www.leap.com/ [leap.com]</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>gnso-rpm-wg mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rpm-wg</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>