<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">I am not sure I understand the relevance of investigating other non-UDRP enforcement activities and how the “list” would<div>Benefit the group - outside of curiosity. These are independent of the UDRP process (just as any other legal proceedings are). Although the laws regarding confiscation are obtuse (to say the least) and slanted in favor of the governmental authority (at least in the US) I still am not seeing how this might impact our work. While it is true that trademark owners may seek relief via the ICE process that is really no different that a group of trademark owners seeking assistance from the FBI. <div><div><br></div><div>Paul<br><div><br><div id="AppleMailSignature" dir="ltr">Sent from the road. </div><div dir="ltr"><br>On 2 Jan 2019, at 20:02, Mitch Stoltz <<a href="mailto:mitch@eff.org">mitch@eff.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
I disagree—more information about these seizures could absolutely
inform our work. It would be useful to know what percentage of those
million-plus domain names were seized for reasons relating to
trademark infringement in the domain name itself versus some
objectionable content in the website, and whether the claims
actually relate to trademark or copyright. Knowing whether ICE
seizures are in fact addressing some of the same conduct as the
ICANN RPMs, and what if any due process is being afforded, will
provide an important basis of comparison, because the RPMs don't
operate in a vacuum.<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Mitch Stoltz
Senior Staff Attorney, EFF | 415-436-9333 x142
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.eff.org/donate">https://www.eff.org/donate</a> | <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://act.eff.org/">https://act.eff.org/</a>
</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/2/19 9:58 AM, Jonathan Frost via
GNSO-RPM-WG wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAGTsUdjCxMk7qAwWT2pMwkbKNnrWS+tfTAxw-d4uf=Hh=dsVQg@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">I think Phil has a good point here. Without a
meaningful way to distinguish why exactly each domain was
seized, the data would not be very useful beyond the mere
knowledge that local governments are enforcing local IP laws.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Jonathan</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 12:47 PM Corwin, Philip
via GNSO-RPM-WG <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Aside
from the daunting challenge of analyzing a list of more than
one million domain names, if such a list could be assembled
I'm not sure it could inform our work in any meaningful way.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The new gTLD RPMs are focused on preventing and responding to
a very narrow type of trademark infringement -- cybersquatting
where the domain name is identical or confusingly similar to a
trademark, where the registrant has no legitimate interest in
the DN and the domain is being used in bad faith to infringe
trademark.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
While some of the seized domains referenced in the ICE press
release may have met that test, many (likely the majority)
probably did not, as the release makes clear that the primary
focus was not the domain name but the sale/distribution of
counterfeit goods and copyright-infringing material --<br>
<br>
More than 1 million copyright-infringing
website domain names selling counterfeit automotive parts,
electrical components, personal care items and other fake
goods were criminally and civilly seized in the past
year through the combined efforts of law- enforcement
agencies across the world, high-profile industry
representatives and anti-counterfeiting associations... The
IPR Center, which stands at the forefront of the U.S.
government's response to IP theft, worked directly
with key international law- enforcement authorities and
industry organizations representing the electronics sector,
luxury brand-name designers, film and
entertainment and several entities specializing in apparel
and accessories through the major enforcement effort....
Investigations led by HSI resulted in the removal of
copyright-infringing websites that sold
counterfeit airbags and integrated sensors, both co<br>
mmodities that present a potential safety hazard. An
investigation based in Louisiana led to the seizure of
five website domain names - including <a href="http://Chinaseatbelt.com">Chinaseatbelt.com</a>;
<a href="http://Airbagpart.com">Airbagpart.com</a>; <a href="http://Chinasafetybelt.com">Chinasafetybelt.com</a>; <a href="http://Fareurope.com">Fareurope.com</a>; and
<a href="http://Far-europe.com">Far-europe.com</a> - involved in the sale of fake
automotive parts. A joint case between HSI and Department of
Defense investigative agencies resulted in the
removal of <a href="http://PRBlogics.com">PRBlogics.com</a>, a
copyright-infringing website offering counterfeit
integrated sensors.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
So the ICANN RPMs are focused on the "apples" of a very
specific and narrow type of TM infringement that looks at
domain content for evidence of bad faith use, while the
government domain seizures do not focus on the domain name but
the "oranges" use of the website to distribute counterfeit
goods or infringed copyrighted content.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Aside from that, assembling the domain names would likely be
impossible, given that the release makes clear that the
million-plus seizures is a cumulative annual tally based on
actions taken by law enforcement agencies around the world.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Finally, as the Techdirt blog states, the release is somewhat
confusing in regard to what IP infringement was actually
involved---<br>
<br>
Still, it seems notable that in late November, ICE proudly
announced that it had seized over a million websites, though
frankly, the press release raises a hell of a lot more
questions than it answers. First off, it appears that ICE has
no clue that copyright and trademark are entirely different
things. <br>
<br>
More than 1 million copyright-infringing website domain names
selling counterfeit automotive parts, electrical components,
personal care items and other fake goods were criminally and
civilly seized in the past year through the combined efforts
of law-enforcement agencies across the world, high-profile
industry representatives and anti-counterfeiting associations.
<br>
<br>
"Copyright infringing website domain names" already is a weird
description (were the URLs themselves infringing?) but it's
made even weirder by saying that these sites were seized
because they were selling counterfeits. Counterfeiting is a
trademark issue, not a copyright one. Those laws are entirely
different.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
In conclusion, unless we are contemplating expansion of the
ICANN RPMs beyond a narrow form of cybersquatting to cover
sale of counterfeit goods and websites infringing copyright (a
proposition for which consensus could not likely be achieved),
even if the million-plus domain names could be obtained their
relationship to our work seems tangential at best.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Philip S. Corwin<br>
<br>
Policy Counsel<br>
<br>
VeriSign, Inc.<br>
<br>
12061 Bluemont Way<br>
<br>
Reston, VA 20190<br>
<br>
703-948-4648/Direct<br>
<br>
571-342-7489/Cell<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: GNSO-RPM-WG [mailto:<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>] On
Behalf Of George Kirikos<br>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2019 11:48 AM<br>
To: gnso-rpm-wg <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [GNSO-RPM-WG] ICE domain name seizures --
potential source of data for RPM PDP?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi folks,<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Happy New Year.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
There was news about ICE seizing over 1 million domain names,
see:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<a href="https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/over-million-websites-seized-global-operation" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/over-million-websites-seized-global-operation</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<a href="https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20181213/18030341224/ice-seizes-over-1-million-websites-with-no-due-process-apparently-unaware-that-copyright-trademark-are-different.shtml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20181213/18030341224/ice-seizes-over-1-million-websites-with-no-due-process-apparently-unaware-that-copyright-trademark-are-different.shtml</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I was curious whether anyone (maybe a registrar, registry, or
TM holders who were involved, i.e. the "industry partners")
has and can share the complete list of domain names that were
seized, as that might be a potential source of data for our
work.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Sincerely,<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
George Kirikos<br>
<br>
416-588-0269<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.leap.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.leap.com/</a><br>
<br>
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</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
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