Paul T., all,<div><br></div><div>I like how you think - this is an original/creative idea.</div><div><br></div><div>It would appear to work well for U.S, but I’m unclear on status re every jurisdiction worldwide. Do we know whether every jurisdiction handles marks protected by statute or treaty in the same way as the PTO in the States, or may there be some exceptions?</div><div><br></div><div>I agree with your point about the heavy lifting being done elsewhere, i.e. by staff or by the Implementation Recommendation Team (IRT) that will follow this PDP. </div><div><br></div><div>In fact, I was thinking along the same lines (on the heavy lifting point) which led me to rely upon Mary’s suggested text for 3.2.3 (which she included in an email to the full WG a few weeks ago).</div><div><br></div><div>Other solutions include keeping the existing text for 3.2.3 (as it currently appears in the AGB) or the text that Mary drafted (as contained in my proposal), with an added ‘disclaimer’ - “marks that constitute GIs or Appellations of Origin do not qualify under 3.2.3” or “marks that constitute GIs or Appellations of Origin do not qualify under this provision”. </div><div><br></div><div>We can add that language in 3.2.3 itself, or in the Section that is below 3.2.1-3.2.4 in the AGB. I say this because if you look in the AGB, directly below 3.2.1-3.2.4, there are a set of provisions or rules that apply to the system overall. So we can add the ‘disclaimer’ there and not worry so much about the exact wording in 3.2.3, because that Section is applicable and governing. In both proposals, we have made modifications to clarify or change some provisions in this Section, so we wouldn’t be breaking any new ground.</div><div><br></div><div>In my personal view, this latter approach - of adding the disclaimer accomplishes the objective on Q#8.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Claudio</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><br>On Wednesday, October 2, 2019, Paul Tattersfield <<a href="mailto:gpmgroup@gmail.com">gpmgroup@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Perhaps the heavy lifting could be done elsewhere?<br><br>3.2.3 Any word mark notified to a national trademark office as protected by a statute or treaty in effect at the time the mark is submitted to the Clearinghouse for inclusion<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 2:14 AM Tushnet, Rebecca <<a href="mailto:rtushnet@law.harvard.edu" target="_blank">rtushnet@law.harvard.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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In GI-world, they distinguish between levels of GI-ness. Some geographic terms merely identify the geographic "source" of a product, while others indicate more in the way of specific qualities. So "source indicator" is in fact widely used to describe GIs
(though many GIs are said to be source-plus-some-other-<wbr>quality). Some examples</div>
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<a href="https://www.origin-gi.com/images/stories/PDFs/English/E-Library/geographical_indications.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.origin-gi.com/<wbr>images/stories/PDFs/English/E-<wbr>Library/geographical_<wbr>indications.pdf</a><br>
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<a href="https://www.uspto.gov/sites/default/files/web/offices/dcom/olia/globalip/pdf/gi_system.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.uspto.gov/sites/<wbr>default/files/web/offices/<wbr>dcom/olia/globalip/pdf/gi_<wbr>system.pdf</a><br>
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<a href="https://www.uspto.gov/sites/default/files/web/offices/dcom/olia/globalip/pdf/gi_system.pdf" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank">Geographical Indication Protection in the United States United
States Patent and Trademark Office - uspto.gov</a></div>
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Geographical Indication Protection in the United States United States Patent and Trademark Office What Are “Geographical Indications”? “Geographical indications” (“GIs”) are defined at Article 22(1) of the World Trade</div>
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<a href="http://www.uspto.gov" target="_blank">www.uspto.gov</a></div>
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Rebecca Tushnet</div>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">Frank Stanton Professor of First Amendment Law, Harvard Law School<br>
703 593 6759 </div>
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<div dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Michael Graham (ELCA) <<a href="mailto:migraham@expediagroup.com" target="_blank">migraham@expediagroup.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 1, 2019 8:31 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tushnet, Rebecca <<a href="mailto:rtushnet@law.harvard.edu" target="_blank">rtushnet@law.harvard.edu</a>>; claudio di gangi <<a href="mailto:ipcdigangi@gmail.com" target="_blank">ipcdigangi@gmail.com</a>>; Paul Tattersfield <<a href="mailto:gpmgroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">gpmgroup@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> gnso-rpm-wg <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [GNSO-RPM-WG] Proposal re Q8.</font>
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<p>Wondering out loud whether GIs are necessarily “source identifiers”. My understanding is that they are identifiers of particular geographic locations, whereas trademarks are source identifiers. GIs may be source identifiers, but to
the extent they are then they would be considered trademarks. So . . . am I missing something in the terminology?</p>
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<p>Michael R.</p>
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<b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,153)">Michael R. Graham</span></b></p>
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<p><b>From:</b> GNSO-RPM-WG <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a><wbr>> <b>
On Behalf Of </b>Tushnet, Rebecca<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 1, 2019 1:50 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> claudio di gangi <<a href="mailto:ipcdigangi@gmail.com" target="_blank">ipcdigangi@gmail.com</a>>; Paul Tattersfield <<a href="mailto:gpmgroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">gpmgroup@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> gnso-rpm-wg <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [GNSO-RPM-WG] Proposal re Q8.</p>
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<p><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">From my perspective, the key problem is that "source identifier" describes, among other things, GIs. We can engage in special pleading against GIs and just carve them out, but I admit that
leaves me a bit sour. I also would note that the relevant statutes I've seen don't use the words "source identifier" either, so we are still shuffling off the interpretive weight to Deloitte. (E.g., although the Red Cross also has TM registrations, the Red
Cross US statute that has been mentioned in this discussion uses the word "use" to define one prohibited act, and
</span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:black">"</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51);background:white none repeat scroll 0% 0%">wears or displays ... for the fraudulent purpose of inducing the belief that he is a member of or an
agent for the American National Red Cross" to define the other prohibited act.) </span><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51);background:white none repeat scroll 0% 0%">For these reasons, I have come around to not wanting to add "source identifier" to the definition--I don't think it actually solves the
problem and it might make things even less clear. Other than that, I do think we have gotten a lot closer.</span><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black"></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Rebecca Tushnet</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Frank Stanton Professor of First Amendment Law, Harvard Law School<br>
703 593 6759 </span></p>
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<p><b><span style="color:black">From:</span></b><span style="color:black"> claudio di gangi <<a href="mailto:ipcdigangi@gmail.com" target="_blank">ipcdigangi@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:11 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Tattersfield <<a href="mailto:gpmgroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">gpmgroup@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Tushnet, Rebecca <<a href="mailto:rtushnet@law.harvard.edu" target="_blank">rtushnet@law.harvard.edu</a>>; gnso-rpm-wg <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [GNSO-RPM-WG] Proposal re Q8.</span> </p>
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<p><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:blue">Paul,</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:blue">I agree with you; and you have spotted one of the areas of divergence between my proposal and Rebecca's.
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<p><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:blue">My proposal includes alternative language on this provision - that I believe addresses your point, but I am interested in your perspective.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:blue">Best regards,<br>
Claudio</span></p>
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<p>On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 4:00 PM Paul Tattersfield <<a href="mailto:gpmgroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">gpmgroup@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-GB">Rebecca, I believe in 3.2.3 you should not add the words "as trademarks" as the marks concerned are not trademarks. For example once such 6ter marks are communicated
to the USPTO and are accepted it is not possible for any organization to register a trademark containing the mark and importantly that includes the originating entity itself. Instead an 89 serial is created so the mark turns up in an examining attorney’s search
etc.</span><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
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<p>Best regards, Paul</p>
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<p>On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 8:04 PM Tushnet, Rebecca <<a href="mailto:rtushnet@law.harvard.edu" target="_blank">rtushnet@law.harvard.edu</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">This is the same text but with the subject line proper. </span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Rebecca Tushnet</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Frank Stanton Professor of First Amendment Law, Harvard Law School<br>
703 593 6759 </span></p>
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</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div></div>