<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri" lang="EN-GB">We
need a way to include marks like UNHCR because they are established under their
own specific treaty (or convention). What we don’t want is for the language to
be too loosely drawn so it inadvertently protects GIs etc. simply because they
are protected collectively under the Paris Convention or TRIPS etc. Hence the words
“established in”<br>
<br>
</span></p>
<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri" lang="EN-GB">3.2.3 Any word mark <span style="color:blue">notified to a national trademark office </span><span style="color:red">established in</span><span style="color:blue"> and</span>
protected by statute or treaty in effect at the time the mark is submitted to
the</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri" lang="EN-GB"> Clearinghouse
for inclusion</span></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 5:13 PM Tushnet, Rebecca <<a href="mailto:rtushnet@law.harvard.edu">rtushnet@law.harvard.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
I don't think I understand what your proposal is now. Can you provide the language you think would exclude GIs but allow other non-trademarks?</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div id="gmail-m_-6025641343598805302Signature">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div><br>
</div>
Rebecca Tushnet</div>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">Frank Stanton Professor of First Amendment Law, Harvard Law School<br>
703 593 6759 </div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="gmail-m_-6025641343598805302appendonsend"></div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="gmail-m_-6025641343598805302divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Paul Tattersfield <<a href="mailto:gpmgroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">gpmgroup@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 10, 2019 11:58 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tushnet, Rebecca <<a href="mailto:rtushnet@law.harvard.edu" target="_blank">rtushnet@law.harvard.edu</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> claudio di gangi <<a href="mailto:ipcdigangi@gmail.com" target="_blank">ipcdigangi@gmail.com</a>>; Michael Graham (ELCA) <<a href="mailto:migraham@expediagroup.com" target="_blank">migraham@expediagroup.com</a>>; gnso-rpm-wg <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [GNSO-RPM-WG] Proposal re Q8.</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri" lang="EN-GB">I was under the impression they are established by register (DOOR etc) rather than by established specifically [with]in a statute. If this is not the case then we probably need to
split 3.2.3 into 3.2.3 (a) statute & 3.2.3 (b) treaty (We can tidy the numbers later of course).</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-GB">
</span></div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 4:42 PM Tushnet, Rebecca <<a href="mailto:rtushnet@law.harvard.edu" target="_blank">rtushnet@law.harvard.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">No, because GIs appear to be formally submitted to a number of TM offices worldwide. As I’ve said, to do this would either admit a bunch of GIs or require “notwithstanding” language. <br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Rebecca Tushnet</div>
<div>Frank Stanton Professor of First Amendment Law, Harvard Law School</div>
<div><br>
</div>
Sent from my phone. Apologies for terseness/typos. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Oct 10, 2019, at 9:36 AM, Paul Tattersfield <<a href="mailto:gpmgroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">gpmgroup@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri" lang="EN-GB">Hi All. Sorry for the delayed response, would this solve the problem? Best regards, Paul.<br>
<br>
3.2.3 Any word mark <span style="color:blue">notified to a national trademark office established in and</span> protected by statute or treaty in effect at the time the mark is submitted to the Clearinghouse for inclusion</span></div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 5:54 PM claudio di gangi <<a href="mailto:ipcdigangi@gmail.com" target="_blank">ipcdigangi@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff">Rebecca,</font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff">That's great, I am happy that you support this revised language (personally, I am fine with removing 'service mark' as I do not see that causing a problem, as it has not been an issue to date). Since I feel this is the most
precise text developed to date, let's stay with this going forward (see below).</font></div>
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff">3.2.3 Any word mark protected by a statute or treaty in effect at the time the mark is submitted to the Clearinghouse for inclusion; the word mark protected by statute or treaty must be<span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"> a
trademark.</span></font></div>
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff">On your other feedback, I did not mean to imply your agreement on 3.2.3 impacts the other elements in your proposal; but simply that we combine the areas where we agree, e.g. there should be no bar on ancillary services,
etc., and then parse out the other areas for consideration.</font></div>
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff">I believe that is exactly how the consensus-building process is intended to function.
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff">From my point of view, an exception to this general rule is the specific case of when the aspects of a particular proposal are so inter-related that they form a package of policy recommendations that can not be untethered,
e.g. a "unitary proposal".</font></div>
</font>
<div>
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff"><br>
</font></div>
<font size="3" color="#0000ff">Or if someone compromises on an issue they believe is critical, I don't think it's fair to then turn around and say "OK you compromised on this important area, so we'll count you in on the compromise but discard the rest of your
ideas."</font></div>
</div>
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff">I'm glad we were able to make further progress before our call on Thursday.</font></div>
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff">Best regards,</font></div>
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff">Claudio</font></div>
<font size="3" color="#0000ff"></font></div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 11:21 AM Tushnet, Rebecca <<a href="mailto:rtushnet@law.harvard.edu" target="_blank">rtushnet@law.harvard.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir="auto">To be clear, my proposal, which is still my proposal, defines trademark to include service marks, collective marks, and certification marks. I believe it makes more sense to do so in a footnote that covers the entire section 3 than in this subsection.
I am happy to use the language you proposed several days ago for 3.2.3, or this (I’d remove service mark given the overall definition) but I am not withdrawing the overall proposal. <br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Rebecca Tushnet</div>
<div>Frank Stanton Professor of First Amendment Law, Harvard Law School</div>
<div><br>
</div>
Sent from my phone. Apologies for terseness/typos. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Oct 8, 2019, at 10:52 AM, claudio di gangi <<a href="mailto:ipcdigangi@gmail.com" target="_blank">ipcdigangi@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff">Rebecca,</font></div>
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff">Thanks for the feedback; I have removed "referenced by" and "legally recognized as" because 1) by removing, it makes the provision more concise (which I tend to favor) and precise; and 2) I don't think it changes the meaning
of what we are attempting to clarify here. </font></div>
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff">Please see below, hope this is satisfactory. I added-in "service mark" because I recall Greg mentioning that on our call two weeks ago for extra clarity, but if we just want to say "trademark" I think its OK (as services
aren't referenced in 3.1.1 or 3.1.2..</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="3" color="#0000ff"><br>
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="3" color="#0000ff">3.2.3 Any word mark protected by a statute or treaty in effect at the time the mark is submitted to the Clearinghouse for inclusion; the word mark protected by statute or treaty must be</font><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"> a
trademark/service mark.</span><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 1:29 PM claudio di gangi <<a href="mailto:ipcdigangi@gmail.com" target="_blank">ipcdigangi@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Rebecca, all,</span></div>
<div><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">I am making a final attempt below on 3.2.3; I think this version is more specific, condense, and in alignment with the original spirit of 3.2.3.
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">I hope you find this language acceptable. </span></div>
<div><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">If the WG isn't able to each consensus on the exact language on 3.2.3 for inclusion in the Initial Report, then I recommend we defer to staff and/or the
IRT that will follow this PDP for developing more exact language. </span></div>
<div><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">We have the option to simply put forward a general rule for public comment in the Initial Report, i.e. "GIs and Appellations of Origin do not qualify
for TM Claims and Sunrise, unless those signs are independently registered as trademarks," in addition to the other set of provisions which we are generally aligned on w/r/t/ this subject matter, e.g. "there shall be no prohibition on using the same ancillary
database for GIs across multiple new gTLDs, etc."</span></div>
<div><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">------</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff">3.2.3 Any word mark protected by a statute or treaty in effect at the time the mark is submitted to the Clearinghouse for inclusion; the word mark protected by statute or treaty must function as, or be<span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"> legally
recognized as, a trademark or service mark.</span></font></div>
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff"><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div>
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff"><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">------</span></span></font></div>
<font size="3" color="#0000ff"><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff"><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Of course, I remain open to your thoughts and any additional input WG members may have. Thanks!</span></font></div>
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff"><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff"><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Best regards,</span></font></div>
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff"><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Claudio</span></font></div>
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff"><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font size="3" color="#0000ff"><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 3:26 PM claudio di gangi <<a href="mailto:ipcdigangi@gmail.com" target="_blank">ipcdigangi@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">
<div><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Sorry, but this made me think about the Boy Scouts legislation under U.S. law</span><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">,
see: </span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.law.cornell.edu_uscode_text_36_30905&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=E-M4OQvQBo8UWqE1LwEiDR3PcWlfM0I-0jiI1c4ous0&m=AB-OFCOWkNtMN0rGQpsDXsXljiOXE-4OgNXtMdPp9lA&s=N6x8UPsvMdhkmJxwLwIOP6wkHxGQiGzWyNVc7CYO6EI&e=" target="_blank">https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/36/30905</a></div>
<div><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);text-indent:16px;font-family:Verdana,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">The </span><a style="color:rgb(0,104,172);text-indent:16px;font-family:Verdana,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;border-bottom-width:1px;border-bottom-style:dotted;box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent">corporation</a><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);text-indent:16px;font-family:Verdana,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"> has
the exclusive right to use emblems, badges, descriptive or designating marks, and words or phrases the </span><a style="color:rgb(0,104,172);text-indent:16px;font-family:Verdana,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;border-bottom-width:1px;border-bottom-style:dotted;box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent">corporation</a><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);text-indent:16px;font-family:Verdana,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"> adopts.
This section does not affect any vested rights.</span><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);text-indent:16px;font-family:Verdana,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br>
</span></span></div>
<div><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);text-indent:16px;font-family:Verdana,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">.....</span></span></div>
<div><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);text-indent:16px;font-family:Verdana,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br>
</span></span></div>
<div><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);text-indent:16px;font-family:Verdana,"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">So I think we just need to change
“identified” with “referenced” because identified is too specific. If the Boy Scout corporation adopts a new mark, it will be protected as a trademark under U.S law, but that trademark is not “identified” within the statue (depending on how strictly one interprets
“identified”), but it is “referenced” in the statute.</span></span></div>
<span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<div><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></div>
3.2.3 Any word mark protected by a statute or treaty in effect at the time the mark is submitted to the Clearinghouse for inclusion, </span><span style="color:blue;line-height:17.12px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">and which is referenced
within the Statute or Treaty as a mark that functions as a trademark.</span>
<div><font size="3" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#0000ff"><span><br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font size="3" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="#0000ff"><span>Hope you are still OK with this Rebecca? Thanks!<br>
</span></font><br>
On Thursday, October 3, 2019, Tushnet, Rebecca <<a href="mailto:rtushnet@law.harvard.edu" target="_blank">rtushnet@law.harvard.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
Claudio's proposal would then read </div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<span style="color:blue;line-height:107%;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">3.2.3 Any word mark protected by a statute or treaty in effect at the time the mark is submitted to the Clearinghouse for inclusion,
</span><span style="color:blue;line-height:107%;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">and which is identified within the Statute or Treaty as a mark that functions as a trademark</span><br>
</div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<br>
</div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
I'm fine with that. For comparison purposes, my proposed language (with bold indicating additions to current language) is:</div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<br>
</div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-size:12pt">Any word marks <b>
specified in and </b>protected by a statute or treaty <b>as trademarks</b> in effect at the time the mark is submitted to the Clearinghouse for inclusion.</span><br>
</div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12pt"><font face="Times New Roman, serif">Relatedly, I got further information from Dev Gangjee (who studies GIs) and Robert Burrell (an expert on the Australian registration system), both of whom reported that GIs are
listed with the TM offices with which they are familiar (in Australia wine GIs get special treatment), so unless Paul's proposal is also coupled with a "Notwithstanding the foregoing, no GIs," I don't think it would do the job that the consensus appears to
want done. For the reasons discussed on the call, I'm uncomfortable with a rule that appears to single out GIs for exclusion while allowing non-TM, non-GIs. </font></div>
<div>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div><br>
</div>
Rebecca Tushnet</div>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">Frank Stanton Professor of First Amendment Law, Harvard Law School<br>
703 593 6759 </div>
</div>
</div>
<div></div>
<hr style="width:98%;display:inline-block">
<div dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> claudio di gangi <<a href="mailto:ipcdigangi@gmail.com" target="_blank">ipcdigangi@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 3, 2019 1:15 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Michael Graham (ELCA) <<a href="mailto:migraham@expediagroup.com" target="_blank">migraham@expediagroup.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Tushnet, Rebecca <<a href="mailto:rtushnet@law.harvard.edu" target="_blank">rtushnet@law.harvard.edu</a>>; Paul Tattersfield <<a href="mailto:gpmgroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">gpmgroup@gmail.com</a>>; gnso-rpm-wg <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [GNSO-RPM-WG] Proposal re Q8.</font>
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<div>Michael,
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<div>I agree with the points that Rebecca here, just noting that I believe the closest analogy is GIs function in a similar manner as certification or collective trademarks in the U.S.
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<div>In fact, this is how I believe the USPTO sets forth that GIs are protected in the U.S as per the obligations the U.S has undertaken as a signatory of the international TRIPS agreement. </div>
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<div>Whereas, collective and certification marks are examined on absolute and relative grounds, GIs are protected through sui generis legislation (in believe in most cases, it’s possible they may be protected under common law in some jurisdictions but I’m not
sure) - as certain trademarks like those protected by statue or treaty are sui generis in form.</div>
<div><br>
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<div>This is why I always felt that the TMCH Operator in good faith interpreted 3.2.3 to potentially allow GIs in the Clearinghouse, with all the qualifying language they added (such as “may be eligible” - I don’t think they ever stated “are eligible”), and
we did not know if or any GIs are still recorded in the TMCH.</div>
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<div>In my personal view, (albeit, I am not an expert on GIs), I believe the number of countries that protect GIs has substantially increased since the First WIPO Process, providing more universality across the spectrum, compared to when this issue was initially
considered by the international community under WIPO’s inclusive consultation on IP and DNS policy.</div>
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<div>In addition, I believe in most countries that protect GIs through sui generis legislation, a senior GI has priority over a later registered trademark for the same class of goods/services.</div>
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<div>But since trademarks are protected in every country worldwide through a combination of common law, statutory law, or constitutional law, I understand/support the perspective that Sunrise should take place first, based on that correspondence of global protection.</div>
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<div>The only incongruence that I can potentially see arising is if a junior trademark holder in a certain country uses Sunrise to register a domain during Sunrise when actually the GI rights holder in that country has senior or superior rights. For example,
there is often litigation where a national (or district) court in a country will hold that the GI has priority over the junior mark in that country, even if the trademark was registered in good faith.</div>
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<div>Perhaps this can be addressed by having a provision in the SDRP policy for this very scenario (which registries may voluntarily choose to adopt), or we could consider adding it to the mandatory SDRP (but I defer to the Co-chairs and the WG). </div>
<div><br>
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<div>In other words, the objective is to match offline IP law with the DNS and the associated rules for allocating domain names, e.g. if the GI rights holder can provide a court decision to the TMCH Operator that demonstrates it has priority under the national
law of its country against the junior mark holder in its country. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Although, what may occur in practice is the court will require cancellation of the junior trademark, so I’m not sure it’s necessary. I defer to others who have substantive experience practicing law in this space, like Jonathan Agmon to help inform us with
their perspective.</div>
<div><br>
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<div>Rebecca,</div>
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<div>We can remove source identifier from my definition if that makes you more comfortable; I don’t think it’s necessary to have it included in my 3.2.3. Is that satisfactory for you then to accept my definition?</div>
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<div>Best regards,</div>
<div>Claudio</div>
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On Tuesday, October 1, 2019, Michael Graham (ELCA) <<a href="mailto:migraham@expediagroup.com" target="_blank">migraham@expediagroup.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">
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<p>Wondering out loud whether GIs are necessarily “source identifiers”. My understanding is that they are identifiers of particular geographic locations, whereas trademarks are source identifiers. GIs may be source identifiers, but to the extent they are
then they would be considered trademarks. So . . . am I missing something in the terminology?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p>Michael R.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p style="text-align:justify;vertical-align:middle"><b><span style="color:rgb(0,0,153);font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></b></p>
<p style="text-align:justify;vertical-align:middle"><b><span style="color:rgb(0,0,153);font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></b></p>
<p style="text-align:justify;vertical-align:middle"><b><span style="color:rgb(0,0,153);font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Michael R. Graham<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
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<p style="text-align:justify;vertical-align:middle"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Senior Counsel and Global Director,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify;vertical-align:middle"><span style="color:black;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Intellectual Property,</span><span style="color:rgb(109,110,112);font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
</span><b><span style="color:rgb(147,149,152);font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Expedia Group</span></b><span style="color:rgb(147,149,152);font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p style="text-align:justify;vertical-align:middle"><span style="color:rgb(109,110,112);font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;font-size:9pt" lang="FR">T +1 425 679 4330</span><span style="color:rgb(109,110,112);font-family:CenturyGothic;font-size:9.5pt" lang="FR">
| M</span><span style="color:rgb(109,110,112);font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;font-size:9pt" lang="FR"> +1 425 241 1459<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p style="text-align:justify;vertical-align:middle"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,153);font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;font-size:9pt">Email:
</span><u><span style="color:blue;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;font-size:9pt"><a href="mailto:migraham@expediagroup.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">migraham@expediagroup.com</span></a></span></u><span style="color:rgb(109,110,112);font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;font-size:9pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p style="text-align:justify;vertical-align:middle"><b><span style="color:rgb(0,0,153);font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></b></p>
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<p><img alt="cid:image002.png@01D49D39.23E390C0" style="width: 3.802in; height: 0.416in;" src="http:///mail/u/1/s/?view=att&th=16d8d44103fba857&attid=0.1&disp=emb&realattid=c9532aa009aacf45_0.2&zw&atsh=1" width="365" height="40" border="0"><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p><b>From:</b> GNSO-RPM-WG <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Tushnet, Rebecca<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 1, 2019 1:50 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> claudio di gangi <<a href="mailto:ipcdigangi@gmail.com" target="_blank">ipcdigangi@gmail.com</a>>; Paul Tattersfield <<a href="mailto:gpmgroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">gpmgroup@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> gnso-rpm-wg <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [GNSO-RPM-WG] Proposal re Q8.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p><span style="color:black;font-size:12pt">From my perspective, the key problem is that "source identifier" describes, among other things, GIs. We can engage in special pleading against GIs and just carve them out, but I admit that leaves me a bit sour.
I also would note that the relevant statutes I've seen don't use the words "source identifier" either, so we are still shuffling off the interpretive weight to Deloitte. (E.g., although the Red Cross also has TM registrations, the Red Cross US statute that
has been mentioned in this discussion uses the word "use" to define one prohibited act, and
</span><span style="color:black;font-size:10pt">"</span><span style="background:white none repeat scroll 0% 0%;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">wears or displays ... for the fraudulent purpose of inducing the belief that
he is a member of or an agent for the American National Red Cross" to define the other prohibited act.) </span><span style="color:black;font-size:12pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p><span style="color:black;font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p><span style="background:white none repeat scroll 0% 0%;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">For these reasons, I have come around to not wanting to add "source identifier" to the definition--I don't think it actually solves
the problem and it might make things even less clear. Other than that, I do think we have gotten a lot closer.</span><span style="color:black;font-size:12pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Rebecca Tushnet<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Frank Stanton Professor of First Amendment Law, Harvard Law School<br>
703 593 6759 <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p><b><span style="color:black">From:</span></b><span style="color:black"> claudio di gangi <<a href="mailto:ipcdigangi@gmail.com" target="_blank">ipcdigangi@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:11 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Tattersfield <<a href="mailto:gpmgroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">gpmgroup@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Tushnet, Rebecca <<a href="mailto:rtushnet@law.harvard.edu" target="_blank">rtushnet@law.harvard.edu</a>>; gnso-rpm-wg <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [GNSO-RPM-WG] Proposal re Q8.</span> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p><span style="color:blue;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Paul,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p><span style="color:blue;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I agree with you; and you have spotted one of the areas of divergence between my proposal and Rebecca's.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p><span style="color:blue;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">My proposal includes alternative language on this provision - that I believe addresses your point, but I am interested in your perspective.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p><span style="color:blue;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Best regards,<br>
Claudio</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p>On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 4:00 PM Paul Tattersfield <<a href="mailto:gpmgroup@gmail.com" target="_blank">gpmgroup@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-GB">Rebecca, I believe in 3.2.3 you should not add the words "as trademarks" as the marks concerned are not trademarks. For example once such 6ter marks are communicated to the USPTO and are
accepted it is not possible for any organization to register a trademark containing the mark and importantly that includes the originating entity itself. Instead an 89 serial is created so the mark turns up in an examining attorney’s search etc.</span><span lang="EN-GB">
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p>Best regards, Paul<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p>On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 8:04 PM Tushnet, Rebecca <<a href="mailto:rtushnet@law.harvard.edu" target="_blank">rtushnet@law.harvard.edu</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p><span style="color:black;font-size:12pt">This is the same text but with the subject line proper. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p><span style="color:black;font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Rebecca Tushnet<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Frank Stanton Professor of First Amendment Law, Harvard Law School<br>
703 593 6759 <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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