<div dir="ltr">I agree with Jason that the issue merits further discussion. I had a conflict last week, and was unable to join the call, but I also did not get the impression that the transparency issue was thoroughly discussed. This is an issue of central importance to the working group's mandate and, frankly, its legitimacy. There were substantive issues raised in the comments which were not discussed, and which warrant the group's consideration.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 3:21 PM Marie Pattullo <<a href="mailto:marie.pattullo@aim.be">marie.pattullo@aim.be</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-GB">
<div class="gmail-m_2534361844928752888WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Thank you for the suggestion Jason; however, I agree with Cynthia.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">As stated in the Initial Report itself:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><span style="color:black">“Some Working Group members suspected that trademark owners may have the potential to abuse Sunrise due to TMCH’s acceptance of non-standard character claim
marks and common/dictionary words, as well as the broad scope of registration within the TMCH.
<b><i>However, there is a lack of concrete evidence to substantiate that suspicion</i></b>”. (pages 45 & 42).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">(Emphasis added).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">As discussed re all other individual proposals, at this stage we are not discussing substance but whether there is sufficient support to put them forward for a consensus call. There was
neither sufficient support in our Working Group, nor in the public comments, for this proposal.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">I also have a different reading of Deloitte’s comment: to me<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><span style="color:black">"Deloitte is taking this opportunity to share its point of view on Individual Proposal #7 that the TMCH should transition from a closed database to an open
and searchable database....” <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">reads that they are quoting the proposal; either way, as a service provider I don’t think their voice has weight here, especially as they (rightly) go on to say that:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><span style="color:black">“...Deloitte wants to emphasize that ICANN is the owner of the TMCH database and that not Deloitte, but IBM operates the TMDB. In this regard, it is up to ICANN
and the Community to take the ultimate decision to move from a closed to an open database”.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">We’ve discussed this issue at (great) length over the past years and, agreeing with Cynthia, this is not the best use of the limited time we have left.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Kind regards<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Marie<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> GNSO-RPM-WG <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jason Schaeffer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 20, 2020 9:09 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:cking@modernip.com" target="_blank">cking@modernip.com</a>; 'Julie Hedlund' <<a href="mailto:julie.hedlund@icann.org" target="_blank">julie.hedlund@icann.org</a>>; <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [GNSO-RPM-WG] REMINDER: Proposed Agenda for RPMs PDP WG Meeting - 21 July 2020 at 13:00 UTC<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Hi Cyntia,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Question 7 deserves the same treatment as other questions and the public comments should be reviewed. We were side tracked at the end of the call last week and didn’t get to the merits.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">There's a documented problem of abuse and the ONLY opposition is based on the concern that cybersquatters will themselves abuse the open TMCH. No one said they don't want oversight of the TMCH -- at least not openly.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Moreover, if you review your notes and the comments there’s support and room for a compromise. Others have seemed to indicate a willingness to solve the problem.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span lang="EN-US">Jason<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> <a href="mailto:cking@modernip.com" target="_blank">
cking@modernip.com</a> <<a href="mailto:cking@modernip.com" target="_blank">cking@modernip.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 20, 2020 2:01 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jason Schaeffer <<a href="mailto:jason@esqwire.com" target="_blank">jason@esqwire.com</a>>; 'Julie Hedlund' <<a href="mailto:julie.hedlund@icann.org" target="_blank">julie.hedlund@icann.org</a>>;
<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [GNSO-RPM-WG] REMINDER: Proposed Agenda for RPMs PDP WG Meeting - 21 July 2020 at 13:00 UTC<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">Hi All,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">Respectfully, I believe this would be a waste of our remaining time.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">The Proposal had significant opposition (at least as much opposition as support). As well, consensus has never been reached in discussions by the full working group or
(2) subgroups.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">As consensus is needed to change an RPM that is itself the result of consensus discussions; and<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">As we haven’t been close to consensus in the working group, sub-groups or public comments; then<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">I suggest we complete our review concentrating on Proposals where consensus may still be possible.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:rgb(13,13,13)"><u></u> <u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:rgb(13,13,13)">
<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:rgb(13,13,13)">Cyntia King<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:rgb(13,13,13)">O: +1 816.633.7647<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:rgb(13,13,13)">C: +1 818.209.6088<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:rgb(13,13,13)"><img border="0" width="129" height="58" style="width: 1.3437in; height: 0.6041in;" id="gmail-m_2534361844928752888Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:1736debfc374ce8e91" alt="Email Logo5"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> GNSO-RPM-WG <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jason Schaeffer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 20, 2020 11:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Julie Hedlund <<a href="mailto:julie.hedlund@icann.org" target="_blank">julie.hedlund@icann.org</a>>;
<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [GNSO-RPM-WG] REMINDER: Proposed Agenda for RPMs PDP WG Meeting - 21 July 2020 at 13:00 UTC<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Hi all, <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">In advance of tomorrow’s call, I am requesting that we continue discussion on the
<u>merits</u> of TMCH Question #7. Upon reflection, at the end of the last WG call, we neither discussed the public comments nor debated the underlying merits of the positions regarding opening of the TMCH.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">As we are all aware, we are not debating whether or not there has been abuse of the TMCH. The only question is how much abuse has occurred. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Further, those opposed to opening the TMCH DB to oversight appear to object on the basis that cybersquatters and wrongdoers will abuse the newly opened DB. It does not appear that
<u>anyone</u> rejects having oversight of the TMCH or an ability to ensure that it is operating correctly (without abuse). Moreover, Deliotte itself commented that the TMCH should transition from a closed to open and searchable DB with the understanding
that it is up to the ICANN Community to make the determination. I recall we had discussed some compromise positions that were being considered as a way to bring oversight while protecting against cybersquatters.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Accordingly, I request that we be prepared to continue the discussion on the merits of TMCH Question 7 and find a workable position as a WG to review the TMCH and avoid abuse.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Jason<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> GNSO-RPM-WG <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Julie Hedlund<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 20, 2020 10:20 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [GNSO-RPM-WG] REMINDER: Proposed Agenda for RPMs PDP WG Meeting - 21 July 2020 at 13:00 UTC<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">Dear RPM WG members, </span><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">As a reminder, p<span style="color:black">lease find the
</span>updated <span style="color:black">proposed agenda and materials below for the
<b><i><u>full WG</u></i></b> meeting </span><b>Tuesday, 21 July 2020 at 13:00 UTC for 90 minutes.</b><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Kind regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Mary, Ariel, and Julie<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;color:black">GNSO-RPM-WG <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>> on behalf of Julie Hedlund <<a href="mailto:julie.hedlund@icann.org" target="_blank">julie.hedlund@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 3:10 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>"<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rpm-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[GNSO-RPM-WG] Proposed Agenda for RPMs PDP WG Meeting - 21 July 2020 at 13:00 UTC<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">Dear RPM WG members, </span><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">P<span style="color:black">lease find the
</span>updated <span style="color:black">proposed agenda and materials below for the
<b><i><u>full WG</u></i></b> meeting </span><b>Tuesday, 21 July 2020 at 13:00 UTC for 90 minutes.</b><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US"> </span></b><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Draft Proposed Agenda:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Review Agenda and Updates to Statements of Interest<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Revisit Discussion of TMCH Proposals
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_spreadsheets_d_1QTt-5Fm5qdzoalRDcIUED01ur-2DyJgODCex8bj-5F-2DaKO7fI_edit-23gid-3D722865735&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=adDIs0WEx_lLwFfrsdovxTYY8GkRHo5ibc8SR3Npdh8&m=h-YCBbNQ0yFiF6hJviEdwDqUSzbkMEsFvHqD1z4Ix4A&s=71WyjyE0FtdOQ-oBUlPy1zQhKqCIXHZte-NxaS3p7BU&e=" target="_blank">
#4 [docs.google.com]</a> and <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_spreadsheets_d_1QTt-5Fm5qdzoalRDcIUED01ur-2DyJgODCex8bj-5F-2DaKO7fI_edit-23gid-3D1604477707&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=adDIs0WEx_lLwFfrsdovxTYY8GkRHo5ibc8SR3Npdh8&m=h-YCBbNQ0yFiF6hJviEdwDqUSzbkMEsFvHqD1z4Ix4A&s=X--O_xLLIbaYclLWQ4pesNriqcBfp-AOHvDXsW1FmDI&e=" target="_blank">
#5 [docs.google.com]</a>, see the Public Comment Review Tool at: <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QTt_m5qdzoalRDcIUED01ur-yJgODCex8bj_-aKO7fI/edit?usp=sharing__;!!PtGJab4!sweUru0Zq__8MpVGAXJZqoIsAwrRgtO7K4ya1bssd0_iehbe0JkxZID5z67DJZ9YvzpJBRmKzw$" target="_blank">
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QTt_m5qdzoalRDcIUED01ur-yJgODCex8bj_-aKO7fI/edit?usp=sharing [docs.google.com]</a> and the table of contents on the first tab; see also the message on the email distribution list at:
<a href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/2020-July/004344.html" target="_blank">[GNSO-RPM-WG] Simplified language to bring together individual TMCH #4 & #5 proposals </a><a name="m_2534361844928752888_4344"> </a> <i>Paul Tattersfield</i><u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Review of Overarching Questions #1 and #3 (<i>skipping #2</i>) and Additional Overarching Questions #1, #2, and #3, see the Public Comment Review Tool at:
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wke2krmhV2tNPNhvIOskAlLVraWp-88mqzScCtj01fw/edit?usp=sharing__;!!PtGJab4!sweUru0Zq__8MpVGAXJZqoIsAwrRgtO7K4ya1bssd0_iehbe0JkxZID5z67DJZ9YvzqIpK5g9w$" target="_blank">
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wke2krmhV2tNPNhvIOskAlLVraWp-88mqzScCtj01fw/edit?usp=sharing [docs.google.com]</a> and the table of contents on the first tab<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Review of General Content Questions #1 and #2 (time permitting), see the Public Comment Review Tool at:
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wke2krmhV2tNPNhvIOskAlLVraWp-88mqzScCtj01fw/edit?usp=sharing__;!!PtGJab4!sweUru0Zq__8MpVGAXJZqoIsAwrRgtO7K4ya1bssd0_iehbe0JkxZID5z67DJZ9YvzqIpK5g9w$" target="_blank">
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wke2krmhV2tNPNhvIOskAlLVraWp-88mqzScCtj01fw/edit?usp=sharing [docs.google.com]</a> and the table of contents on the first tab<u></u><u></u></span></li><li class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">AOB<u></u><u></u></span></li></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">Best Regards,</span><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">Mary, Julie, Ariel</span><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div id="gmail-m_2534361844928752888DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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