[Gnso-sc-budget] [Ext] Re: [v.0.5] latest version of our comment on FY20 budget

Fri Jan 25 01:12:13 UTC 2019

(personal capacity)

I think the inference potential is a legitimate concern to give ICANN pause, though I do note that there are travelers who have an entitlement to business class travel for reasons that are not related to medical reasons, i.e. SO/AC Chairs. A common travel policy that provided an equal standard of travel for ICANN senior management, ICANN board members, ICANN staff, and ICANN community members could also alleviate concerns here.

Ayden

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Thursday, January 24, 2019 8:08 PM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com> wrote:

> Xavier
>
> I don’t see how HIPAA really comes into play here. While one *might* infer that person X is getting biz class due to Y based on the level of funding they’re getting it’s never been disclosed in that fashion (or at least not to my knowledge). It’s also never been disclosed what condition, if there was one, led to the person getting business class for medical reasons.
>
> Also HIPAA predates GDPR by many years, so why is ICANN now suddenly concerned about this?
>
> Regards
>
> Michele
>
> --
>
> Mr Michele Neylon
>
> Blacknight Solutions
>
> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>
> https://www.blacknight.com/
>
> http://blacknight.blog/
>
> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
>
> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>
> Personal blog: https://michele.blog/
>
> Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/
>
> -------------------------------
>
> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
>
> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>
> From: "xavier.calvez at icann.org" <xavier.calvez at icann.org>
> Date: Thursday 24 January 2019 at 16:49
> To: Michele Neylon <michele at blacknight.com>
> Cc: Ayden Férdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>, "gnso-sc-budget at icann.org" <gnso-sc-budget at icann.org>, Joseph de Jesus <joseph.dejesus at icann.org>
> Subject: Re: [Ext] Re: [Gnso-sc-budget] [v.0.5] latest version of our comment on FY20 budget
>
> Michele,
>
> From a GDPR standpoint, yes, from a HIPAA standpoint, no because HIPAA compliance is not elective, even with the consent of the individuals.
>
> Re: consent from travelers: needs to be evaluated further, from operational perspective (how do we manage tracking who provided consent and who did not), from a legal/compliance perspective, etc...
>
> Some of you have suggested that consent on data disclosure should condition receiving travel funding, meaning that you can’t receive travel funding if you don’t consent to disclosure by ICANN of the costs incurred on your behalf. This approach could reduce the operational challenges of managing consent, but the legal aspect of it should still be evaluated.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Best,
>
> Xavier
>
> Xavier Calvez
>
> SVP & CFO
>
> 12025 Waterfront Drive
>
> Los Angeles, CA 90094
>
> Office: +1-310-301-5838
>
> Mobile: +1-805-312-0052
>
> Skype: Xavier.calvez.icann
>
> On Jan 24, 2019, at 2:49 PM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com> wrote:
>
>> Xavier
>>
>> Surely if the funded travellers agree to their funding being disclosed then it’s a non-issue?
>>
>> I get funding for some activities and I have zero issues with the amounts spent be made public
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Michele
>>
>> --
>>
>> Mr Michele Neylon
>>
>> Blacknight Solutions
>>
>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>>
>> [https://www.blacknight.com/ [blacknight.com]](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.blacknight.com_&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=IWWGaKyGUGcKQNGe7LtArAou7HP6fPR5aWjbPBUFZ3k&m=Z9pdjWUkJ8oyFjjT9QliXNrim6mew2ZytFBmBVvVgDI&s=rpo8OW5yYk9TzHvHVvoNEWahf2LIw6lzxSd4uYCMXEk&e=)
>>
>> [http://blacknight.blog/ [blacknight.blog]](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__blacknight.blog_&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=IWWGaKyGUGcKQNGe7LtArAou7HP6fPR5aWjbPBUFZ3k&m=Z9pdjWUkJ8oyFjjT9QliXNrim6mew2ZytFBmBVvVgDI&s=dyJSVINy_ySqr4Ibvn_8YyGEIenQJcfYBnzGQqKRx4I&e=)
>>
>> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
>>
>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>>
>> Personal blog: [https://michele.blog/ [michele.blog]](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__michele.blog_&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=IWWGaKyGUGcKQNGe7LtArAou7HP6fPR5aWjbPBUFZ3k&m=Z9pdjWUkJ8oyFjjT9QliXNrim6mew2ZytFBmBVvVgDI&s=BEXvaIeIMoXIwTNi8y7TT0K5ogFN3Bjq1EVR4nV06To&e=)
>>
>> Some thoughts: [https://ceo.hosting/ [ceo.hosting]](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ceo.hosting_&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=IWWGaKyGUGcKQNGe7LtArAou7HP6fPR5aWjbPBUFZ3k&m=Z9pdjWUkJ8oyFjjT9QliXNrim6mew2ZytFBmBVvVgDI&s=9pUCDee736aM0YK6XhnGLs9bJkodNEOkEUclX7F0_NY&e=)
>>
>> -------------------------------
>>
>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
>>
>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>>
>> From: Gnso-sc-budget <gnso-sc-budget-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of "xavier.calvez at icann.org" <xavier.calvez at icann.org>
>> Date: Wednesday 23 January 2019 at 16:33
>> To: Ayden Férdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
>> Cc: "gnso-sc-budget at icann.org" <gnso-sc-budget at icann.org>, Joseph de Jesus <joseph.dejesus at icann.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Gnso-sc-budget] [v.0.5] latest version of our comment on FY20 budget
>>
>> Ayden et al,
>>
>> Let me chime in. You all have brought up this topic a few weeks back and I held back from commenting at that time.
>>
>> At a high level, the drivers to the change in disclosures are:
>>
>> (i)                  personal information privacy (GDPR), which we should evaluate whether explicit consent could be a solution to address, as several of you have mentioned.
>>
>> (ii)                Health information privacy. Stephanie raised this issue early on and correctly pointed out to HIPAA, which regulates fairly strictly how personal health information is used and disclosed in the US. When reviewing GDPR compliance, the issue of HIPAA compliance was also evaluated and we determined that disclosing travel expenses with the name of the traveler was leading to disclose indirectly the traveler’s medical condition (ie high flight expense = business class flight = exemption for medical purposes (only reason for an exemption) = medical condition / low flight expense = economy class flight = no exemption = no medical condition). As a result, we disclose now who the travelers are and what the costs are but do not match the travelers to the costs so as to not disclose who has a medical condition and who does not.
>>
>> This is an unfortunate limitation as everyone agreed that the disclosure was a useful and relevant transparency mechanism that helps accountability, which is why ICANN had started to disclose the information a long time ago.
>>
>> It is perfectly reasonable to reevaluate comprehensively what information can be disclosed for transparency and accountability purposes while maintaining privacy, whether required by law or otherwise, under the premise that ICANN should disclose as much information as is possible.
>>
>> I hope this helps.
>>
>> [adding Joseph De Jesus, ICANN Travel Services, to this conversation].
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Xavier
>>
>> Xavier Calvez
>>
>> ICANN – SVP & CFO
>>
>> 12025 Waterfront Drive, Suite 300
>>
>> Los Angeles, CA 90094
>>
>> Phone:   310-301-5838
>>
>> Mobile:  805-312-0052
>>
>> Fax:        310-957-2348
>>
>> From: Gnso-sc-budget <gnso-sc-budget-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of Ayden Férdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>
>> Reply-To: Ayden Férdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>
>> Date: Wednesday, January 23, 2019 at 3:53 PM
>> To: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
>> Cc: "gnso-sc-budget at icann.org" <gnso-sc-budget at icann.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Gnso-sc-budget] [v.0.5] latest version of our comment on FY20 budget
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Thanks for the lively discussion.
>>
>> I remember that we had this conversation on our mailing list several months back, and at that time found guidance from a government body in the EU on how/why under data protection law one agency had justified publishing the expense reports of civil servants and elected members. I wonder whom we can direct this information to, internally within ICANN?
>>
>> I share the sentiment that these community travel reports should be published with the same detail as used to be the case, but am not sure we need to add this request to our comment on the FY20 budget. Is there a way we can escalate this request internally informally, or do we need to write a letter?
>>
>> Ayden
>>
>> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 23, 2019 5:44 PM, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> On the travel issue, I totally agree.  While it is well known that some folks get more expensive travel for medical reasons, and there is certainly a concern about releasing information about medical conditions, I do think that a lump some and the destination and departure point is still valid.  It is certainly released in most countries which have access to information and privacy legislation, even with details of items charged.
>>>
>>> Consent could be obtained, it is reasonable to ask for it and not too burdensome to block if people insist on their privacy.  However, I would caution that if only a few people refuse, we will still be able to sleuth them out because of the dates and amounts...which raises issues about having to black out a few others to avoid this.
>>>
>>> Stephanie Perirn
>>>
>>> On 2019-01-23 17:10, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:
>>>
>>>> Marilyn
>>>>
>>>> On travel support – I agree. There needs to be transparency. While I am a strong supporter of privacy and GDPR travel support is like a grant or bursary. It’s important to see who is getting what and what they are actually doing. Yes, some people do plenty of work and I have no issue with them getting financial assistance, but the disclosure helps to keep the system honest.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Michele
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Mr Michele Neylon
>>>>
>>>> Blacknight Solutions
>>>>
>>>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>>>>
>>>> [https://www.blacknight.com/ [blacknight.com]](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.blacknight.com_&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=IWWGaKyGUGcKQNGe7LtArAou7HP6fPR5aWjbPBUFZ3k&m=HdpI8YJsFWJlGtrrZ497yw8gZo939XMnVjySH5upcAA&s=RZJ0HeA1nRDvq4D6_AR0GBeJaRFOOJN3CHXhExVCl7k&e=)
>>>>
>>>> [http://blacknight.blog/ [blacknight.blog]](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__blacknight.blog_&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=IWWGaKyGUGcKQNGe7LtArAou7HP6fPR5aWjbPBUFZ3k&m=HdpI8YJsFWJlGtrrZ497yw8gZo939XMnVjySH5upcAA&s=w90n2jWnURUy4RbSrzjjufNCGrqpbKFaOQ9VcBo-mCo&e=)
>>>>
>>>> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
>>>>
>>>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>>>>
>>>> Personal blog: [https://michele.blog/ [michele.blog]](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__michele.blog_&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=IWWGaKyGUGcKQNGe7LtArAou7HP6fPR5aWjbPBUFZ3k&m=HdpI8YJsFWJlGtrrZ497yw8gZo939XMnVjySH5upcAA&s=P8KAlH3h_DC523ZOXbENDK4pgnPud1b-Lf_Xv8cn51Q&e=)
>>>>
>>>> Some thoughts: [https://ceo.hosting/ [ceo.hosting]](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ceo.hosting_&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=IWWGaKyGUGcKQNGe7LtArAou7HP6fPR5aWjbPBUFZ3k&m=HdpI8YJsFWJlGtrrZ497yw8gZo939XMnVjySH5upcAA&s=ygrBTE9Y9r70TVXLSHo8yEWrA5wEJL7iWAMlhk9Wh1E&e=)
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
>>>>
>>>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>>>>
>>>> From: Gnso-sc-budget [<gnso-sc-budget-bounces at icann.org>](mailto:gnso-sc-budget-bounces at icann.org) on behalf of Marilyn Cade [<marilynscade at hotmail.com>](mailto:marilynscade at hotmail.com)
>>>> Date: Tuesday 22 January 2019 at 06:33
>>>> To: ["gnso-sc-budget at icann.org"](mailto:gnso-sc-budget at icann.org) [<gnso-sc-budget at icann.org>](mailto:gnso-sc-budget at icann.org), Ayden Férdeline [<icann at ferdeline.com>](mailto:icann at ferdeline.com)
>>>> Subject: Re: [Gnso-sc-budget] [v.0.5] latest version of our comment on FY20 budget
>>>>
>>>> I have a couple of questions --
>>>>
>>>> First bullet under the chart -- and this may be my fault for not thinking of it earlier. Should this include also regular Board/Liaison travel to ICANN's 3 meetings, so there is a full view of Board/Liaison travel?
>>>>
>>>> Also, in a last few months, ICANN has stopped publishing travel amounts for travelers, noting GDRP as their excuse.  There has been a little chatter but not enough, in my view. If one accepts ICANN funding, then we should tick the box, so to speak, that one understands that name; group affiliated with;  travel location from, and amount of travel  and purpose will be posted in ICANN reports about said event.  Receiving ICANN funding is not a bad thing, as many volunteers do countless hours of work. But publishing details can help to advise on improvements in travel planning. And how those funded contribute to policy engagement -- in the GNSO but also elsewhere as well as to activity that ensure ICANN's successful delivery of its core mission.
>>>>
>>>> This may need referral to the constituencies/SGs,as it might exceed our group's mandate in some aspects.
>>>>
>>>> If we might be over exceeding the mandate of this group then perhaps some questions need to be referred back to the Constituencies/SGs into the overall Budget/Operating Plan comments. For instance, publishing all contracts over a certain amount and noting if they are competed and what the scope of responsibility of said contractor may be out of scope for the Council's comments but belong back at the broader Budget Working Group, where many of the SMEs to this group engage. Those related to policy support are relevant to this group's mandate, of course.
>>>>
>>>> I have forwarded a request to Jimson Olufuye, V..Chair of Finance and Ops for BC and Steve DelBianco, V.Chair, Policy Coordination regarding their view about the Document Drafting and Development Pilot.  I understand that we have a deadline on our response, but it would also be helpful to hear from the other participants in that pilot on whether it was useful, and if not, why not.
>>>>
>>>> I am so appreciative of the great work of this group and want to once again complement Ayden as Chair and Berry as staff, who have guided the work, and I believe we are also helping as the SMEs are then able to share Council's views back into their communities, as they fulfill their broader role in comments on Budget and Ops Plan.
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> From: Gnso-sc-budget [<gnso-sc-budget-bounces at icann.org>](mailto:gnso-sc-budget-bounces at icann.org) on behalf of Ayden Férdeline [<icann at ferdeline.com>](mailto:icann at ferdeline.com)
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 11:07 AM
>>>> To: gnso-sc-budget at icann.org
>>>> Subject: [Gnso-sc-budget] [v.0.5] latest version of our comment on FY20 budget
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for joining our call today. I have now updated our draft comment to reflect the discussion on our call as best as I could. Please find attached; and I apologize in advance if I have not accurately captured a change that you requested. We need to get a draft of our comment to the GNSO Council's mailing list by Thursday (and during the Council's meeting in Los Angeles on Thursday I would like to present our draft comment and walk the Council through it, if time permits), so can you please socialize the attached document with your SG/C and advise if you have any concerns, questions, or requested edits. It would be much appreciated if you could raise concerns within the next 24 hours so we have time to deliberate and discuss further on our list, if necessary. Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>
>>>> Ayden
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> Gnso-sc-budget at icann.org
>>>>
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