[Gnso-sc-budget] [v.0.5] latest version of our comment on FY20 budget
Martin Pablo Silva Valent
mpsilvavalent at gmail.com
Mon Jan 28 18:49:09 UTC 2019
Marylin,
No need to apologies! I support travel information disclosure as to understand if travel expenses are adequate, taking in account to minimize the risk of exposing private data (like medical conditions and others). I do not know what should that level of disclosure be. That’s where the devils hide, in the accurate balance of: what data do we need, and not a dime more. I think I better understand your point now. That’s why I was confused on why fellows bios would help to understand travel expenses (since the appointment of who can get funds is done already in a community based manner we control).
On the second point, which I agree, is really not a matter of the SCBO, maybe fellows should be asked to publish a small bio text of their own writing, in where they can decide what and how they present themselves in order to facilitate community engagement (a piece of communication that may differ in language and presentation of the one they do in their applications, even much shorter). I would be against of anything that opens an endless mechanism of control and judgment on why and who is elected or not, since for that we have a process, community based and balanced. I don’t enjoy thousands of members having the power to pass contradictory judgment on why this fellows was selected and not this other, there is a place and a process for that under the control of the community. Other wise it would be chaotic and not helpful to improve anything.
Best,
Martin
> On 28 Jan 2019, at 00:34, Marilyn Cade <marilynscade at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for your response, Martin. I believe you are referring to the application for funding for fellows/NextGen and publication of all applications/bios and that asking to have all bios published would be counterproductive as there is a committee that recommends the selection. I was not asking for that. Apologies if that was inferred.
>
> I am referring to the publication of travel expenditures, and to the provision of bios for those who are approved for travel -- I was making two different points and perhaps should not have put them in the same email. But let me try to clarify.
>
> First, spending for Fellows/NextGen is only one part of ICANN travel spend. I am asking that ICANN return to a more transparent report for all travel, including Board retreats, attendance at external events, etc. etc.
>
> Secondly, I was not asking to have the bios for the application published, but that those who are approved understand that their bio will be published. It is not really possible to 'on board' Fellows into the broader community effectively without information about background, etc.
>
> However, the last point is perhaps not a topic for this WG, while the first one is, I believe.
>
>
>
> From: Martin Pablo Silva Valent <mpsilvavalent at gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2019 7:55 PM
> To: Marilyn Cade
> Cc: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Xavier J. Calvez; Ayden Férdeline; Stephanie Perrin; gnso-sc-budget at icann.org; Joseph de Jesus
> Subject: Re: [Gnso-sc-budget] [v.0.5] latest version of our comment on FY20 budget
>
> Marylin,
> We already have the community assessing the applications of fellows and next gen, don’t we trust the input of our own communities? Disclosing bios to the whole public seems unnecessarily invasive and burdensome to be part of the program. They have a filter, and a filter that can be audited if needed, were we already participate. And unless we propose attaching the bio to the budget to analyze that, I also think is a little overreaching this group.
>
> My two cents.
>
> Martín
>
>
>> On 24 Jan 2019, at 21:49, Marilyn Cade <marilynscade at hotmail.com <mailto:marilynscade at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I have benefitted from ICANN travel when I was participating in the Onboarding Pilot. Long ago, we did not fund chairs/executives and even councilors, and I fought to have first the councilors, and then officers from our constituencies. It was a hard fought challenge but prevailed. BUT, it was always with the assumption that such funding was public.
>>
>> Not only do I expect to have that publicly available, I expect to have name, BC affiliation, purpose and amount published. If you don't accept that, then don't accept ICANN funding.
>>
>>
>> I have also noted that ICANN has redacted all useful information about Fellows and Next Gen, so people are approved but without bios so the community can advise how to engage with such "ICANN travelers".
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Gnso-sc-budget <gnso-sc-budget-bounces at icann.org <mailto:gnso-sc-budget-bounces at icann.org>> on behalf of Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com <mailto:michele at blacknight.com>>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2019 5:48 PM
>> To: Xavier J. Calvez; Ayden F¨Ļrdeline; Stephanie Perrin
>> Cc: gnso-sc-budget at icann.org <mailto:gnso-sc-budget at icann.org>; Joseph de Jesus
>> Subject: Re: [Gnso-sc-budget] [v.0.5] latest version of our comment on FY20 budget
>>
>> Xavier
>>
>> Surely if the funded travellers agree to their funding being disclosed then itĄ¯s a non-issue?
>> I get funding for some activities and I have zero issues with the amounts spent be made public
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Michele
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mr Michele Neylon
>> Blacknight Solutions
>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>> https://www.blacknight.com/ <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.blacknight.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C7389abc2fc3b42487b1d08d6825fc065%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636839745090643293&sdata=0qip5x8cMlrhPtBJoSVvZiXb3g5Oe5iD4erzF76ADwI%3D&reserved=0>
>> http://blacknight.blog/ <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblacknight.blog%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C7389abc2fc3b42487b1d08d6825fc065%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636839745090643293&sdata=vglDy82kw2TmjJFbqcvChIYkrPtKI0lyyWKwfP5E4Ug%3D&reserved=0>
>> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>> Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmichele.blog%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C7389abc2fc3b42487b1d08d6825fc065%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636839745090643293&sdata=Jog2DqLVzZE8UAa6FHAd7LYVxKY%2FxLcnQW5ElVkwwJc%3D&reserved=0>
>> Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fceo.hosting%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C7389abc2fc3b42487b1d08d6825fc065%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636839745090643293&sdata=AOBftNP5sWyrT7LmsepGH1yMmWYnGI5V%2Brw%2B2tjcRKs%3D&reserved=0>
>> -------------------------------
>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845
>>
>>
>> From: Gnso-sc-budget <gnso-sc-budget-bounces at icann.org <mailto:gnso-sc-budget-bounces at icann.org>> on behalf of "xavier.calvez at icann.org <mailto:xavier.calvez at icann.org>" <xavier.calvez at icann.org <mailto:xavier.calvez at icann.org>>
>> Date: Wednesday 23 January 2019 at 16:33
>> To: Ayden F¨Ļrdeline <icann at ferdeline.com <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>>, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>>
>> Cc: "gnso-sc-budget at icann.org <mailto:gnso-sc-budget at icann.org>" <gnso-sc-budget at icann.org <mailto:gnso-sc-budget at icann.org>>, Joseph de Jesus <joseph.dejesus at icann.org <mailto:joseph.dejesus at icann.org>>
>> Subject: Re: [Gnso-sc-budget] [v.0.5] latest version of our comment on FY20 budget
>>
>> Ayden et al,
>> Let me chime in. You all have brought up this topic a few weeks back and I held back from commenting at that time.
>> At a high level, the drivers to the change in disclosures are:
>> (i) personal information privacy (GDPR), which we should evaluate whether explicit consent could be a solution to address, as several of you have mentioned.
>> (ii) Health information privacy. Stephanie raised this issue early on and correctly pointed out to HIPAA, which regulates fairly strictly how personal health information is used and disclosed in the US. When reviewing GDPR compliance, the issue of HIPAA compliance was also evaluated and we determined that disclosing travel expenses with the name of the traveler was leading to disclose indirectly the travelerĄ¯s medical condition (ie high flight expense = business class flight = exemption for medical purposes (only reason for an exemption) = medical condition / low flight expense = economy class flight = no exemption = no medical condition). As a result, we disclose now who the travelers are and what the costs are but do not match the travelers to the costs so as to not disclose who has a medical condition and who does not.
>> This is an unfortunate limitation as everyone agreed that the disclosure was a useful and relevant transparency mechanism that helps accountability, which is why ICANN had started to disclose the information a long time ago.
>> It is perfectly reasonable to reevaluate comprehensively what information can be disclosed for transparency and accountability purposes while maintaining privacy, whether required by law or otherwise, under the premise that ICANN should disclose as much information as is possible.
>> I hope this helps.
>>
>> [adding Joseph De Jesus, ICANN Travel Services, to this conversation].
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Xavier
>>
>> Xavier Calvez
>> ICANN ¨C SVP & CFO
>> 12025 Waterfront Drive, Suite 300
>> Los Angeles, CA 90094
>> Phone: 310-301-5838
>> Mobile: 805-312-0052
>> Fax: 310-957-2348
>>
>>
>> From: Gnso-sc-budget <gnso-sc-budget-bounces at icann.org <mailto:gnso-sc-budget-bounces at icann.org>> on behalf of Ayden F¨Ļrdeline <icann at ferdeline.com <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>>
>> Reply-To: Ayden F¨Ļrdeline <icann at ferdeline.com <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>>
>> Date: Wednesday, January 23, 2019 at 3:53 PM
>> To: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>>
>> Cc: "gnso-sc-budget at icann.org <mailto:gnso-sc-budget at icann.org>" <gnso-sc-budget at icann.org <mailto:gnso-sc-budget at icann.org>>
>> Subject: Re: [Gnso-sc-budget] [v.0.5] latest version of our comment on FY20 budget
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Thanks for the lively discussion.
>>
>> I remember that we had this conversation on our mailing list several months back, and at that time found guidance from a government body in the EU on how/why under data protection law one agency had justified publishing the expense reports of civil servants and elected members. I wonder whom we can direct this information to, internally within ICANN?
>>
>> I share the sentiment that these community travel reports should be published with the same detail as used to be the case, but am not sure we need to add this request to our comment on the FY20 budget. Is there a way we can escalate this request internally informally, or do we need to write a letter?
>>
>> Ayden
>>
>>
>>
>> Š\Š\Š\Š\Š\Š\Š\ Original Message Š\Š\Š\Š\Š\Š\Š\
>> On Wednesday, January 23, 2019 5:44 PM, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>>
>> On the travel issue, I totally agree. While it is well known that some folks get more expensive travel for medical reasons, and there is certainly a concern about releasing information about medical conditions, I do think that a lump some and the destination and departure point is still valid. It is certainly released in most countries which have access to information and privacy legislation, even with details of items charged.
>> Consent could be obtained, it is reasonable to ask for it and not too burdensome to block if people insist on their privacy. However, I would caution that if only a few people refuse, we will still be able to sleuth them out because of the dates and amounts...which raises issues about having to black out a few others to avoid this.
>> Stephanie Perirn
>> On 2019-01-23 17:10, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:
>> Marilyn
>>
>> On travel support ¨C I agree. There needs to be transparency. While I am a strong supporter of privacy and GDPR travel support is like a grant or bursary. ItĄ¯s important to see who is getting what and what they are actually doing. Yes, some people do plenty of work and I have no issue with them getting financial assistance, but the disclosure helps to keep the system honest.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Michele
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mr Michele Neylon
>> Blacknight Solutions
>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>> https://www.blacknight.com/ [blacknight.com] <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__www.blacknight.com_%26d%3DDwMGaQ%26c%3DFmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM%26r%3DIWWGaKyGUGcKQNGe7LtArAou7HP6fPR5aWjbPBUFZ3k%26m%3DHdpI8YJsFWJlGtrrZ497yw8gZo939XMnVjySH5upcAA%26s%3DRZJ0HeA1nRDvq4D6_AR0GBeJaRFOOJN3CHXhExVCl7k%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7C%7C7389abc2fc3b42487b1d08d6825fc065%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636839745090643293&sdata=oOH5RDvRUbLYE4Q4COHuoZ4IYuFwcQJU%2F6BZ2EZbKQU%3D&reserved=0>
>> http://blacknight.blog/ [blacknight.blog] <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttp-3A__blacknight.blog_%26d%3DDwMGaQ%26c%3DFmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM%26r%3DIWWGaKyGUGcKQNGe7LtArAou7HP6fPR5aWjbPBUFZ3k%26m%3DHdpI8YJsFWJlGtrrZ497yw8gZo939XMnVjySH5upcAA%26s%3Dw90n2jWnURUy4RbSrzjjufNCGrqpbKFaOQ9VcBo-mCo%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7C%7C7389abc2fc3b42487b1d08d6825fc065%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636839745090643293&sdata=Fe9Fq7HD33wGrR%2FgdQS0oxjbwHdddLF6OrXiGHUZiPo%3D&reserved=0>
>> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>> Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ [michele.blog] <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__michele.blog_%26d%3DDwMGaQ%26c%3DFmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM%26r%3DIWWGaKyGUGcKQNGe7LtArAou7HP6fPR5aWjbPBUFZ3k%26m%3DHdpI8YJsFWJlGtrrZ497yw8gZo939XMnVjySH5upcAA%26s%3DP8KAlH3h_DC523ZOXbENDK4pgnPud1b-Lf_Xv8cn51Q%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7C%7C7389abc2fc3b42487b1d08d6825fc065%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636839745090643293&sdata=dFe37%2BpTCEEBXvD2iEMvwgG1OXgRmeQ3OOjhkYaAK9A%3D&reserved=0>
>> Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ [ceo.hosting] <https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttps-3A__ceo.hosting_%26d%3DDwMGaQ%26c%3DFmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM%26r%3DIWWGaKyGUGcKQNGe7LtArAou7HP6fPR5aWjbPBUFZ3k%26m%3DHdpI8YJsFWJlGtrrZ497yw8gZo939XMnVjySH5upcAA%26s%3DygrBTE9Y9r70TVXLSHo8yEWrA5wEJL7iWAMlhk9Wh1E%26e%3D&data=02%7C01%7C%7C7389abc2fc3b42487b1d08d6825fc065%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636839745090643293&sdata=NVHSrZLzXcNcQv76DVwDBxOXx5pqELCota7PK0%2BzfW4%3D&reserved=0>
>> -------------------------------
>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845
>>
>>
>> From: Gnso-sc-budget <gnso-sc-budget-bounces at icann.org> <mailto:gnso-sc-budget-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of Marilyn Cade <marilynscade at hotmail.com> <mailto:marilynscade at hotmail.com>
>> Date: Tuesday 22 January 2019 at 06:33
>> To: "gnso-sc-budget at icann.org" <mailto:gnso-sc-budget at icann.org> <gnso-sc-budget at icann.org> <mailto:gnso-sc-budget at icann.org>, Ayden F¨Ļrdeline <icann at ferdeline.com> <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Gnso-sc-budget] [v.0.5] latest version of our comment on FY20 budget
>>
>> I have a couple of questions --
>> First bullet under the chart -- and this may be my fault for not thinking of it earlier. Should this include also regular Board/Liaison travel to ICANN's 3 meetings, so there is a full view of Board/Liaison travel?
>>
>> Also, in a last few months, ICANN has stopped publishing travel amounts for travelers, noting GDRP as their excuse. There has been a little chatter but not enough, in my view. If one accepts ICANN funding, then we should tick the box, so to speak, that one understands that name; group affiliated with; travel location from, and amount of travel and purpose will be posted in ICANN reports about said event. Receiving ICANN funding is not a bad thing, as many volunteers do countless hours of work. But publishing details can help to advise on improvements in travel planning. And how those funded contribute to policy engagement -- in the GNSO but also elsewhere as well as to activity that ensure ICANN's successful delivery of its core mission.
>>
>> This may need referral to the constituencies/SGs,as it might exceed our group's mandate in some aspects.
>> If we might be over exceeding the mandate of this group then perhaps some questions need to be referred back to the Constituencies/SGs into the overall Budget/Operating Plan comments. For instance, publishing all contracts over a certain amount and noting if they are competed and what the scope of responsibility of said contractor may be out of scope for the Council's comments but belong back at the broader Budget Working Group, where many of the SMEs to this group engage. Those related to policy support are relevant to this group's mandate, of course.
>>
>> I have forwarded a request to Jimson Olufuye, V..Chair of Finance and Ops for BC and Steve DelBianco, V.Chair, Policy Coordination regarding their view about the Document Drafting and Development Pilot. I understand that we have a deadline on our response, but it would also be helpful to hear from the other participants in that pilot on whether it was useful, and if not, why not.
>>
>> I am so appreciative of the great work of this group and want to once again complement Ayden as Chair and Berry as staff, who have guided the work, and I believe we are also helping as the SMEs are then able to share Council's views back into their communities, as they fulfill their broader role in comments on Budget and Ops Plan.
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Gnso-sc-budget <gnso-sc-budget-bounces at icann.org> <mailto:gnso-sc-budget-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of Ayden F¨Ļrdeline<icann at ferdeline.com> <mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>
>> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2019 11:07 AM
>> To: gnso-sc-budget at icann.org <mailto:gnso-sc-budget at icann.org>
>> Subject: [Gnso-sc-budget] [v.0.5] latest version of our comment on FY20 budget
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Thank you for joining our call today. I have now updated our draft comment to reflect the discussion on our call as best as I could. Please find attached; and I apologize in advance if I have not accurately captured a change that you requested. We need to get a draft of our comment to the GNSO Council's mailing list by Thursday (and during the Council's meeting in Los Angeles on Thursday I would like to present our draft comment and walk the Council through it, if time permits), so can you please socialize the attached document with your SG/C and advise if you have any concerns, questions, or requested edits. It would be much appreciated if you could raise concerns within the next 24 hours so we have time to deliberate and discuss further on our list, if necessary. Thanks!
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Ayden
>>
>>
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