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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Dear All,</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Please find the MP3 recording for the Policy and Implementation Working Principles Sub-Team call held on</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> Thursday <span style='color:black'>12 December 2013 at 19:00 UTC:</span></span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'><a href="https://icann.box.com/shared/static/2tpcsccdqtjk9kqlas5b.mp3">https://icann.box.com/shared/static/2tpcsccdqtjk9kqlas5b.mp3</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><u><span lang=FR style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Attendees:</span></u><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Michael Graham – IPC</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Cheryl Langdon-Orr – ALAC</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Alan Greenberg – At-Large</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Greg Shatan – IPC</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Chuck Gomes- RySG</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Nic Steinbach- RrSG</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Avri Doria - NCSG</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><u><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Apology: </span></u><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>none</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><u><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>ICANN staff:</span></u><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Mary Wong </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Marika Konings</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Nathalie Peregrine</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>** Please let me </span><span lang=FR style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>know if your name has been left off the list **</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Wiki page:</span><span lang=FR style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="https://community.icann.org/x/y1V-Ag">https://community.icann.org/x/y1V-Ag</a></span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Thank you.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Kind regards,</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Nathalie Peregrine</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>For GNSO Secretariat</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FR style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><u><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Adobe Chat Transcript for Thursday 12 December 2013:</span></u><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Nathalie Peregrine:Dear all, wwelcome to the Policy and IMplementation Working Principles Sub team Meeting on Thursday 12 December 2013<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Nathalie Peregrine:Please be aware that there will be NO audio enabled in the AC room today, please all dial into the audio bridge passcode PI<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Mary Wong:There's a bit of a wait for the operator.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Nathalie Peregrine:yes i waited too today<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Alan Greenberg:Yup, here too<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Alan Greenberg:3+ minutes<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Marika Konings:Same here...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Alan Greenberg:On now<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Greg Shatan:I'm on as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Greg Shatan:With apologies, I will need to get off around the half-hour.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Michael R. Graham:I will as well, sorry.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Nic Steinbach:trying to connect via audio now<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:no dial to me either<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Marika Konings:@CLO - we are trying to dial out to you, but we are having some challenges reaching you<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Nathalie Peregrine:Cheryl, we have tried your hotel nr and they are not picking up<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:chcked line I have dial tone<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Nathalie Peregrine:can we try your mobile?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:back in Syd<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:use landline<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Nathalie Peregrine:ok!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:no mobile on site at home<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Nathalie Peregrine:I wasn't sure if you wre home yet<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Sorry Nathalie my Flt back was yesterday afternoon<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Nathalie Peregrine::)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Nathalie Peregrine:we're setting up a dial out to your landline<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:feel free to check my calendar my life is am open book to you ladies<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:bog standard admin stuff that is "non-substantive"=> "execution"<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Michael R. Graham:In re: "0B" -- The Work Plan subgroup divided Tasks into the 5 deliverables set forth in the WG Charter. We then determined that two preliminary tasks were called for: A. Coming up with Working Definitions of Terms the WG could use in our discussions to avoid confusion and spending inordinate time discussing what we meant by those terms in our discussions, and B. Identify general "Working Principles" that we understand underlay the existing understanding of the Policy & Implementation process within the GNSO. Since these were "pre-deliverables" which we understood would change as the WG progressed in its work, we used "0" as the deliverable number. Hence: 0A and 0B in the designation of Deliverables.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:absolutly Greg... this could end up a Road Block "tool"<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:yes Alan the Community "Impact Test" principal is important here...and Yes I capatalised the term <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Alan Greenberg:@Nic, certainly HOW we make that judgement is going to be challenging, but that is a later step.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Nic Steinbach:@Alan - Sounds good. I think the principle should acknowledge that affected parties should have some remedey or process to allow them to alert the impementation teams that they are affected. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Nic Steinbach:is it possible that the definitions team can shed some light on "implentation" ? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Nic Steinbach:at least in this context....<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Nic Steinbach:i feel like we are talking about different things.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Alan Greenberg:I am certainly hopeful of that.. And working hard towards that end. I was the one who suggested a focus on definitions BECAUE the words are used in such a large number of ways now.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Mary Wong:@Nic, that sub-team has it as one of the words to be defined, yes.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Nic Steinbach:great. it will be intresting to re-evaluate these principles in light of their definitions. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:not saying Implementation is not under a MSM it is; but that ALL componant parts of such Implementation needs to be also RE-subject to a NEW or Refreshed MSM process...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Chuck Gomes:@ Greg - Agree on database<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:yup Greg absolutly...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Chuck Gomes:I like the term policy neutral<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Nic Steinbach:policy neutral - like that concept <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:yup nice term let's usse it as a Term<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:thus add to Deffinitions...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Avri Doria:I don't believe there's policy neutral action<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:really Avri??? the data base one???<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Chuck Gomes:@ avri - Choosing a database is not policy neutral?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Avri Doria:Indeed. The tool used determine the services provided and constrains interface available.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:orbthe server choicesnmor the nimber of and qualifications of staff allocatef to a task??<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Nope that takesm us into Micronmanagement of Admin pricesses of policy implementataion to Community on a</span><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>،</span><span style='color:black'>pll things I disagree<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Michael R. Graham:@Alan -- Originally we had hoped the Definitions would be complete so the terms as defined could be used in these Policy discussions. Certainly, discovering additional terms or uses that require definition was anticipated, and I would not limit developing Definitions to aid in understanding and discussion to that sub-team.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:but that comes back to theproposed principal of Impact Test comes in Avri<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Alan Greenberg:My working definitions, which are probably NOT the ones to use in the long-term, are :POlicy: Whatever the GNSO approves in its PDP (or other methodology); Implementation design: the decisions which may impact community during the post-Policy work; Execution: the part of current implementation which is "policy neutral",.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Nic Steinbach:policy, implentation, execution. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Nic Steinbach:that is a product manager like flow :) like it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Greg Shatan:Consider this more of a spectrum. Policy Neutral may be like Absolute Zero. Maybe nothing is "perfectly" policy neutral. But, I will put on a sweater before absolute zero. Similarly, we need to treat things as essentially policy-neutral at some point.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Alan Greenberg:@Nic, note that the last two phases may be iterative.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Greg Shatan:@Avri. If there are specifications in the final report as to what the database has to do, I agree that choosing a database that fails to do it would not be policy neutral. I think we are assuming that the hypothetical databases under consideration all meet the needs expressed by the policy.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Greg Shatan:And with that, I must go.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Nic Steinbach:@Alan - I think we are on the same page. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Greg Shatan:As Potter Stewart, might have said "I can't define policy, but I know it when I see it...."<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:So true Greg...Art, Porn, and now Policy....<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Michael R. Graham:I'm working on how those three go together . . . <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Nic Steinbach:3 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Nic Steinbach:defintiely linked to 1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:yes Nic 3 is the one I have open on my desk top as I said my last comment...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Nic Steinbach:can the next sub meeting include some pickeled pork! <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Nic Steinbach:that sounds delicious <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Nic I always photo jnl my events so you can always browse the images<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:I'll share a table pic at our next call...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Nic Steinbach:i am afraid to ask for a link. haven't had lunch and that sounds like torture. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Nic Steinbach:looking forward to your pic next call!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> EnCirca - Tom Barrett:sorry guys. i had the time off by an hour. is the call still on? i'm on hold on the conf call centre<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:thanks Marika most helpful<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Marika Konings:@Tom - we are wrapping up<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> EnCirca - Tom Barrett:ok<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Nic Steinbach:i have to hop off - can make a call next week, but am ok with waitng until afterwards...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Cheryl Langdon-Orr:bye<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Marika Konings:Next week we'll meet on Thursday at 21.00 UTC<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> Marika Konings:call details will be circulated shortly<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>Gnso-definitions-subteam-policyimpl mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Gnso-definitions-subteam-policyimpl@icann.org">Gnso-definitions-subteam-policyimpl@icann.org</a><br><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-definitions-subteam-policyimpl">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-definitions-subteam-policyimpl</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>