[GTLD-WG] Letter Regarding Registry SG DIDT on TMCH

Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond ocl at gih.com
Mon Nov 12 07:34:48 UTC 2012


Dear Avri,

the statement was voted on and submitted to the public comment process.
http://forum.icann.org/lists/tmch-docs-sep12/msg00014.html

Thanks to you and your working group members for this great work.

Kind regards,

Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond
ALAC Chair

On 12/11/2012 05:22, Avri Doria wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I think this may be a dangling item for tomorrow's call.
>
> While I sent this out and it got no response, I never did do another last call.
>
> However, Olivier did ask me if this was ready for the ALAC while we were at IGF and I indicated that I thought it was.  
> As it was the end of the comment period, I did ask him to go ahead and ask for ALAC approval to send it on as an ALAC comment.  
>
> I do not know whatever happened after that so hope to get an update either before or during our meeting.
>
> avri
>
>
>
> On 19 Oct 2012, at 09:00, Avri Doria wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> I have rendered the bullets as questions.  I do not think I changed the meaning.
>>
>> https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/Letter+Regarding+Registry+SG+DIDT+on+TMCH?focusedCommentId=37193466#comment-37193466
>>
>> As far as I can tell the words questioned by Alan are standard legal terminology.  Perhaps one of the lawyers in the groups want to define them for us. 
>>
>> As far as I guess, without the benefit of legal training; subsistence or exercise:  something, in this case rights, that remains in force because of statue itself or some right that remains because you have actually used it.  But I am hoping someone corrects my first guess.
>>
>> If Alan indicates he is ok, with the changes, and the rest of the group has not objections or further comment/change, I will run another last call.  At this point, since we are not longer under the deadline of trying to complete something during the meeting, I will make it a 48 hr call.
>>
>> avri
>>
>>
>> On 17 Oct 2012, at 23:55, Alan Greenberg wrote:
>>
>>> Avri, my first point, I could fix. The second I don't have a clue since I don't have a clue what the expression means. Hopefully some TM lawyer can explain. Or leave it and presume that whoever reads the statement is more literate than I am. Or less tire and more willing to search out the meaning.
>>>
>>> Alan
>>>
>>> At 17/10/2012 11:40 PM, Avri Doria wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> These seem to me like substantive comments and changes.
>>>>
>>>> I guess we missed the goal of submitting in Toronto.
>>>>
>>>> Obviously we will have to work a bit more toward group consensus and wait to submit untii the we reach consensus.
>>>>
>>>> Alan: once you have the chance please make your changes.
>>>>
>>>> Once the text stabilizes again, I will restart the 24 hr clock.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you
>>>>
>>>> avri
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 17 Oct 2012, at 17:30, Alan Greenberg wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In middles of GNSO meeting. Don't have the bandwidth to focus on that now.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> At 17/10/2012 04:51 PM, Hong Xue wrote:
>>>>>> Thanks, Alan, you may wish to edit the content directly on the wiki.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. the first bullet does not seem to be a request for information, but a
>>>>>>> statement of advice.
>>>>>>> 2. the expression "for subsistence or exercise" is not one I am familiar
>>>>>>> with. Google found just 3 occurrences (which did not relate to weight loss),
>>>>>>> but they did not illuminate things a lot. Is it possible to use an
>>>>>>> expression that is in more common use, or at least have someone explain to
>>>>>>> me what it means?
>>>>>> Sufficient disclosure of the technical solution in any given patent
>>>>>> application is a prerequisite to grant the patent. All the patents
>>>>>> must be made available to the public so as to subsist. Copyright and
>>>>>> Trademark are meaningless until used publicly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At 17/10/2012 03:20 PM, Hong Xue wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi, Alan, that was only in the old version.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please refer to the updated version on wiki at
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/Letter+Regarding+Registry+SG+DIDT+on+TMCH
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hong
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 3:11 AM, Alan Greenberg
>>>>>>>> <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In the bullet, "Why specific information business
>>>>>>>>> model information cannot be redacted, allowing
>>>>>>>>> for disclosure of other relevant information.", is that what we really
>>>>>>>>> mean?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sure unredacted or revealed. As is it seems to be
>>>>>>>>> asking for information to be hidden.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Or am I mis-reading??
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> At 17/10/2012 11:49 AM, Avri Doria wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> re:
>>>>>>>>>> https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/Le
>>>>>>>>>> tter+Regarding+Registry+SG+DIDT+on+TMCH
>>>>>>>>>> (plain text version below for anyone who cannot access a wiki)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the changes.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It is now 24 hours without change.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Last call: does anyone have an issue with my
>>>>>>>>>> sending this onto the ALAC for approval?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> avri
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 16 Oct 2012, at 11:15, Hong Xue wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Done.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hong
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 10:56 PM, Avri Doria <avri at acm.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you make the changes on the Wiki page to be exactly what you
>>>>>>>>>>>> want?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> avri
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 16 Oct 2012, at 10:17, Hong Xue wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Avri, very timely and efficient. I made a few edit at the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> request part. Please see below.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hong
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/Letter+Regarding+Registry+SG+DIDT+on+TMCH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In August 2012 the Registry Stakeholder
>>>>>>>>>> Group filed a DIDP requesting all documents relating to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      • any claims alleging ownership of
>>>>>>>>>> intellectual property rights made by any bidder
>>>>>>>>>> or bidders [for TMCH] responding to the RFI,
>>>>>>>>>> including but not limited to claims of
>>>>>>>>>> copyright in data or compilations of
>>>>>>>>>> data,  patents, trademarks or trade secrets; and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      • any analysis regarding validity of these claims.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In September 2012 ICANN responded that:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding this item, to the extent that
>>>>>>>>>> bidders made claims of ownership of
>>>>>>>>>> intellectual property rights associated with
>>>>>>>>>> the proposed operation of the Trademark
>>>>>>>>>> Clearinghouse, those materials are subject to
>>>>>>>>>> the same conditions of non-­disclosure
>>>>>>>>>> identified in conjunction with Documents on
>>>>>>>>>> cost and financial models regarding the
>>>>>>>>>> operation of TMCH. Regarding claims of
>>>>>>>>>> ownership of intellectual property rights
>>>>>>>>>> arising out of the operation of TMCH are being
>>>>>>>>>> negotiated and will be published in the finalized agreement later.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Hong] I paraphrased the ICANN's Response and shortened the second
>>>>>>>>>>>>> part. I will place the original expression back to avoid any
>>>>>>>>>>>>> misunderstanding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ALAC wishes to request further information on the following:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      • Further clarification on the
>>>>>>>>>> information being given the protection of
>>>>>>>>>> non-disclosure. Normally Intellectual Property
>>>>>>>>>> rights are protected with public assertion and
>>>>>>>>>> Trademarks and other rights with Patents and
>>>>>>>>>> Patents Pending.  Since the information in
>>>>>>>>>> those processes affect the operation of a
>>>>>>>>>> critical ICANN process we do not understand why
>>>>>>>>>> this information is being given this level of shielding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Hong] Seeking information on intellectual property rights affect
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact ICANN's decision and selection of TMCH providers. Legally,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> except trade secrets, intellectual property rights, including
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Patents,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Copyright, Trademarks, should be publicly disclosed either for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> subsistence or exercise. If any intellectual property right affects
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> impacts ICANN's decision or selection, it shall be disclosed to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> community in due course, rather than kept in secrecy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      • Why specific information business
>>>>>>>>>> model information cannot be redacted, allowing
>>>>>>>>>> for disclosure of other relevant information.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Hong] Seeking information on whether ICANN (and its community) is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> appropriately licensed on royalty-free or RAND
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (reasonable-and-non-discriminatory) basis by the relevant
>>>>>>>>>>>>> intellectual
>>>>>>>>>>>>> property owners.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      • At what point the patents and patents pending will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Hong] Seeking information on whether ICANN is developing necessary
>>>>>>>>>>>>> intellectual property policy in decision-making and procurement
>>>>>>>>>>>>> process.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ALAC would further like to advise that
>>>>>>>>>> ICANN needs to implements a comprehensive
>>>>>>>>>> IETF-like IPR policy as soon as possible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GTLD-WG mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GTLD-WG at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gtld-wg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Working Group direct URL:
>>>>>>>>>> https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/New+GTLDs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Professor Dr. Hong Xue
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Director of Institute for the Internet Policy & Law (IIPL)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Beijing Normal University
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.iipl.org.cn/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 19 Xin Jie Kou Wai Street
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Beijing 100875 China
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ---Text ---
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In August 2012 the Registry Stakeholder Group
>>>>>>>>>> filed a DIDP requesting all documents relating to
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>        • any claims alleging ownership of
>>>>>>>>>> intellectual property rights made by any bidder
>>>>>>>>>> or bidders [for TMCH] responding to the RFI,
>>>>>>>>>> including but not limited to claims of
>>>>>>>>>> copyright in data or compilations of
>>>>>>>>>> data,  patents, trademarks or trade secrets; and
>>>>>>>>>>        • any analysis regarding validity of these claims.
>>>>>>>>>> In September 2012 ICANN responded that:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regarding this item, to the extent that bidders
>>>>>>>>>> made claims of ownership of intellectual
>>>>>>>>>> property rights associated with the proposed
>>>>>>>>>> operation of the Trademark Clearinghouse, those
>>>>>>>>>> materials are subject to the same conditions of
>>>>>>>>>> non-­disclosure identified in conjunction with
>>>>>>>>>> Documents on cost and financial models regarding
>>>>>>>>>> the operation of TMCH. Regarding claims of
>>>>>>>>>> ownership of intellectual property rights
>>>>>>>>>> arising out of the operation of TMCH are being
>>>>>>>>>> negotiated and will be published in the finalized agreement later.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ALAC wishes to request further information on the following:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>        • intellectual property rights affect
>>>>>>>>>> or impact ICANN's decision and selection of
>>>>>>>>>> TMCH providers. Legally, except trade secrets,
>>>>>>>>>> intellectual property rights, including
>>>>>>>>>> Patents, Copyright, Trademarks, should be
>>>>>>>>>> publicly disclosed either for subsistence or
>>>>>>>>>> exercise. If any intellectual property right
>>>>>>>>>> affects or impacts ICANN's decision or
>>>>>>>>>> selection, it shall be disclosed to the
>>>>>>>>>> community in due course, rather than kept in secrecy.
>>>>>>>>>>        • whether ICANN (and its community) is
>>>>>>>>>> appropriately licensed on royalty-free or RAND
>>>>>>>>>> (reasonable-and-non-discriminatory) basis by
>>>>>>>>>> the relevant intellectual property owners.
>>>>>>>>>>        • whether ICANN is developing necessary
>>>>>>>>>> intellectual property policy in decision-making or contract
>>>>>>>>>> negotiation.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ALAC would further like to advise that ICANN
>>>>>>>>>> needs to implement a thoughtful and
>>>>>>>>>> comprehensive intellectual property policy in
>>>>>>>>>> which public interest is properly secured. In
>>>>>>>>>> this regard, IETF's intellectual property policy sets a good example.
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> GTLD-WG mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> GTLD-WG at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>>>>>>>>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gtld-wg
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Working Group direct URL:
>>>>>>>>>> https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/New+GTLDs
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> GTLD-WG mailing list
>>>>>>>>> GTLD-WG at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>>>>>>>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gtld-wg
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Working Group direct URL:
>>>>>>>>> https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/New+GTLDs
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Professor Dr. Hong Xue
>>>>>>>> Director of Institute for the Internet Policy & Law (IIPL)
>>>>>>>> Beijing Normal University
>>>>>>>> http://www.iipl.org.cn/
>>>>>>>> 19 Xin Jie Kou Wai Street
>>>>>>>> Beijing 100875 China
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Professor Dr. Hong Xue
>>>>>> Director of Institute for the Internet Policy & Law (IIPL)
>>>>>> Beijing Normal University
>>>>>> http://www.iipl.org.cn/
>>>>>> 19 Xin Jie Kou Wai Street
>>>>>> Beijing 100875 China
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GTLD-WG mailing list
>>>> GTLD-WG at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gtld-wg
>>>>
>>>> Working Group direct URL: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/New+GTLDs
>>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GTLD-WG mailing list
> GTLD-WG at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gtld-wg
>
> Working Group direct URL: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/New+GTLDs
>

-- 
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD
http://www.gih.com/ocl.html




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