[GTLD-WG] Letter Regarding Registry SG DIDT on TMCH

Avri Doria avri at acm.org
Mon Nov 12 10:00:04 UTC 2012



Thank you


On 12 Nov 2012, at 02:34, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond wrote:

> Dear Avri,
> 
> the statement was voted on and submitted to the public comment process.
> http://forum.icann.org/lists/tmch-docs-sep12/msg00014.html
> 
> Thanks to you and your working group members for this great work.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond
> ALAC Chair
> 
> On 12/11/2012 05:22, Avri Doria wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I think this may be a dangling item for tomorrow's call.
>> 
>> While I sent this out and it got no response, I never did do another last call.
>> 
>> However, Olivier did ask me if this was ready for the ALAC while we were at IGF and I indicated that I thought it was.  
>> As it was the end of the comment period, I did ask him to go ahead and ask for ALAC approval to send it on as an ALAC comment.  
>> 
>> I do not know whatever happened after that so hope to get an update either before or during our meeting.
>> 
>> avri
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 19 Oct 2012, at 09:00, Avri Doria wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> I have rendered the bullets as questions.  I do not think I changed the meaning.
>>> 
>>> https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/Letter+Regarding+Registry+SG+DIDT+on+TMCH?focusedCommentId=37193466#comment-37193466
>>> 
>>> As far as I can tell the words questioned by Alan are standard legal terminology.  Perhaps one of the lawyers in the groups want to define them for us. 
>>> 
>>> As far as I guess, without the benefit of legal training; subsistence or exercise:  something, in this case rights, that remains in force because of statue itself or some right that remains because you have actually used it.  But I am hoping someone corrects my first guess.
>>> 
>>> If Alan indicates he is ok, with the changes, and the rest of the group has not objections or further comment/change, I will run another last call.  At this point, since we are not longer under the deadline of trying to complete something during the meeting, I will make it a 48 hr call.
>>> 
>>> avri
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 17 Oct 2012, at 23:55, Alan Greenberg wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Avri, my first point, I could fix. The second I don't have a clue since I don't have a clue what the expression means. Hopefully some TM lawyer can explain. Or leave it and presume that whoever reads the statement is more literate than I am. Or less tire and more willing to search out the meaning.
>>>> 
>>>> Alan
>>>> 
>>>> At 17/10/2012 11:40 PM, Avri Doria wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> These seem to me like substantive comments and changes.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I guess we missed the goal of submitting in Toronto.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Obviously we will have to work a bit more toward group consensus and wait to submit untii the we reach consensus.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Alan: once you have the chance please make your changes.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Once the text stabilizes again, I will restart the 24 hr clock.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thank you
>>>>> 
>>>>> avri
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 17 Oct 2012, at 17:30, Alan Greenberg wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> In middles of GNSO meeting. Don't have the bandwidth to focus on that now.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> At 17/10/2012 04:51 PM, Hong Xue wrote:
>>>>>>> Thanks, Alan, you may wish to edit the content directly on the wiki.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 1. the first bullet does not seem to be a request for information, but a
>>>>>>>> statement of advice.
>>>>>>>> 2. the expression "for subsistence or exercise" is not one I am familiar
>>>>>>>> with. Google found just 3 occurrences (which did not relate to weight loss),
>>>>>>>> but they did not illuminate things a lot. Is it possible to use an
>>>>>>>> expression that is in more common use, or at least have someone explain to
>>>>>>>> me what it means?
>>>>>>> Sufficient disclosure of the technical solution in any given patent
>>>>>>> application is a prerequisite to grant the patent. All the patents
>>>>>>> must be made available to the public so as to subsist. Copyright and
>>>>>>> Trademark are meaningless until used publicly.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> At 17/10/2012 03:20 PM, Hong Xue wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi, Alan, that was only in the old version.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Please refer to the updated version on wiki at
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/Letter+Regarding+Registry+SG+DIDT+on+TMCH
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hong
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 3:11 AM, Alan Greenberg
>>>>>>>>> <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In the bullet, "Why specific information business
>>>>>>>>>> model information cannot be redacted, allowing
>>>>>>>>>> for disclosure of other relevant information.", is that what we really
>>>>>>>>>> mean?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Sure unredacted or revealed. As is it seems to be
>>>>>>>>>> asking for information to be hidden.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Or am I mis-reading??
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> At 17/10/2012 11:49 AM, Avri Doria wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> re:
>>>>>>>>>>> https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/Le
>>>>>>>>>>> tter+Regarding+Registry+SG+DIDT+on+TMCH
>>>>>>>>>>> (plain text version below for anyone who cannot access a wiki)
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the changes.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> It is now 24 hours without change.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Last call: does anyone have an issue with my
>>>>>>>>>>> sending this onto the ALAC for approval?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> avri
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On 16 Oct 2012, at 11:15, Hong Xue wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Done.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hong
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 10:56 PM, Avri Doria <avri at acm.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you make the changes on the Wiki page to be exactly what you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> want?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> avri
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 16 Oct 2012, at 10:17, Hong Xue wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Avri, very timely and efficient. I made a few edit at the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> request part. Please see below.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hong
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/Letter+Regarding+Registry+SG+DIDT+on+TMCH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In August 2012 the Registry Stakeholder
>>>>>>>>>>> Group filed a DIDP requesting all documents relating to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     • any claims alleging ownership of
>>>>>>>>>>> intellectual property rights made by any bidder
>>>>>>>>>>> or bidders [for TMCH] responding to the RFI,
>>>>>>>>>>> including but not limited to claims of
>>>>>>>>>>> copyright in data or compilations of
>>>>>>>>>>> data,  patents, trademarks or trade secrets; and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     • any analysis regarding validity of these claims.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In September 2012 ICANN responded that:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding this item, to the extent that
>>>>>>>>>>> bidders made claims of ownership of
>>>>>>>>>>> intellectual property rights associated with
>>>>>>>>>>> the proposed operation of the Trademark
>>>>>>>>>>> Clearinghouse, those materials are subject to
>>>>>>>>>>> the same conditions of non-­disclosure
>>>>>>>>>>> identified in conjunction with Documents on
>>>>>>>>>>> cost and financial models regarding the
>>>>>>>>>>> operation of TMCH. Regarding claims of
>>>>>>>>>>> ownership of intellectual property rights
>>>>>>>>>>> arising out of the operation of TMCH are being
>>>>>>>>>>> negotiated and will be published in the finalized agreement later.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Hong] I paraphrased the ICANN's Response and shortened the second
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> part. I will place the original expression back to avoid any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> misunderstanding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ALAC wishes to request further information on the following:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     • Further clarification on the
>>>>>>>>>>> information being given the protection of
>>>>>>>>>>> non-disclosure. Normally Intellectual Property
>>>>>>>>>>> rights are protected with public assertion and
>>>>>>>>>>> Trademarks and other rights with Patents and
>>>>>>>>>>> Patents Pending.  Since the information in
>>>>>>>>>>> those processes affect the operation of a
>>>>>>>>>>> critical ICANN process we do not understand why
>>>>>>>>>>> this information is being given this level of shielding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Hong] Seeking information on intellectual property rights affect
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact ICANN's decision and selection of TMCH providers. Legally,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> except trade secrets, intellectual property rights, including
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Patents,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Copyright, Trademarks, should be publicly disclosed either for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subsistence or exercise. If any intellectual property right affects
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impacts ICANN's decision or selection, it shall be disclosed to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community in due course, rather than kept in secrecy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     • Why specific information business
>>>>>>>>>>> model information cannot be redacted, allowing
>>>>>>>>>>> for disclosure of other relevant information.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Hong] Seeking information on whether ICANN (and its community) is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appropriately licensed on royalty-free or RAND
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (reasonable-and-non-discriminatory) basis by the relevant
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intellectual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> property owners.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     • At what point the patents and patents pending will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Hong] Seeking information on whether ICANN is developing necessary
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intellectual property policy in decision-making and procurement
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> process.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ALAC would further like to advise that
>>>>>>>>>>> ICANN needs to implements a comprehensive
>>>>>>>>>>> IETF-like IPR policy as soon as possible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GTLD-WG mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GTLD-WG at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gtld-wg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Working Group direct URL:
>>>>>>>>>>> https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/New+GTLDs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Professor Dr. Hong Xue
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Director of Institute for the Internet Policy & Law (IIPL)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Beijing Normal University
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.iipl.org.cn/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 19 Xin Jie Kou Wai Street
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Beijing 100875 China
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> ---Text ---
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> In August 2012 the Registry Stakeholder Group
>>>>>>>>>>> filed a DIDP requesting all documents relating to
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>       • any claims alleging ownership of
>>>>>>>>>>> intellectual property rights made by any bidder
>>>>>>>>>>> or bidders [for TMCH] responding to the RFI,
>>>>>>>>>>> including but not limited to claims of
>>>>>>>>>>> copyright in data or compilations of
>>>>>>>>>>> data,  patents, trademarks or trade secrets; and
>>>>>>>>>>>       • any analysis regarding validity of these claims.
>>>>>>>>>>> In September 2012 ICANN responded that:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding this item, to the extent that bidders
>>>>>>>>>>> made claims of ownership of intellectual
>>>>>>>>>>> property rights associated with the proposed
>>>>>>>>>>> operation of the Trademark Clearinghouse, those
>>>>>>>>>>> materials are subject to the same conditions of
>>>>>>>>>>> non-­disclosure identified in conjunction with
>>>>>>>>>>> Documents on cost and financial models regarding
>>>>>>>>>>> the operation of TMCH. Regarding claims of
>>>>>>>>>>> ownership of intellectual property rights
>>>>>>>>>>> arising out of the operation of TMCH are being
>>>>>>>>>>> negotiated and will be published in the finalized agreement later.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> ALAC wishes to request further information on the following:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>       • intellectual property rights affect
>>>>>>>>>>> or impact ICANN's decision and selection of
>>>>>>>>>>> TMCH providers. Legally, except trade secrets,
>>>>>>>>>>> intellectual property rights, including
>>>>>>>>>>> Patents, Copyright, Trademarks, should be
>>>>>>>>>>> publicly disclosed either for subsistence or
>>>>>>>>>>> exercise. If any intellectual property right
>>>>>>>>>>> affects or impacts ICANN's decision or
>>>>>>>>>>> selection, it shall be disclosed to the
>>>>>>>>>>> community in due course, rather than kept in secrecy.
>>>>>>>>>>>       • whether ICANN (and its community) is
>>>>>>>>>>> appropriately licensed on royalty-free or RAND
>>>>>>>>>>> (reasonable-and-non-discriminatory) basis by
>>>>>>>>>>> the relevant intellectual property owners.
>>>>>>>>>>>       • whether ICANN is developing necessary
>>>>>>>>>>> intellectual property policy in decision-making or contract
>>>>>>>>>>> negotiation.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> ALAC would further like to advise that ICANN
>>>>>>>>>>> needs to implement a thoughtful and
>>>>>>>>>>> comprehensive intellectual property policy in
>>>>>>>>>>> which public interest is properly secured. In
>>>>>>>>>>> this regard, IETF's intellectual property policy sets a good example.
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> GTLD-WG mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> GTLD-WG at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>>>>>>>>>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gtld-wg
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Working Group direct URL:
>>>>>>>>>>> https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/New+GTLDs
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> GTLD-WG mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> GTLD-WG at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>>>>>>>>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gtld-wg
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Working Group direct URL:
>>>>>>>>>> https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/New+GTLDs
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Professor Dr. Hong Xue
>>>>>>>>> Director of Institute for the Internet Policy & Law (IIPL)
>>>>>>>>> Beijing Normal University
>>>>>>>>> http://www.iipl.org.cn/
>>>>>>>>> 19 Xin Jie Kou Wai Street
>>>>>>>>> Beijing 100875 China
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Professor Dr. Hong Xue
>>>>>>> Director of Institute for the Internet Policy & Law (IIPL)
>>>>>>> Beijing Normal University
>>>>>>> http://www.iipl.org.cn/
>>>>>>> 19 Xin Jie Kou Wai Street
>>>>>>> Beijing 100875 China
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> GTLD-WG mailing list
>>>>> GTLD-WG at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>>>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gtld-wg
>>>>> 
>>>>> Working Group direct URL: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/New+GTLDs
>>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> GTLD-WG mailing list
>> GTLD-WG at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gtld-wg
>> 
>> Working Group direct URL: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/New+GTLDs
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD
> http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> GTLD-WG mailing list
> GTLD-WG at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gtld-wg
> 
> Working Group direct URL: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/New+GTLDs
> 




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