[GTLD-WG] [CPWG] [registration-issues-wg] Fwd: FW: Draft Comment on RA Renewals

Marita Moll mmoll at ca.inter.net
Mon Apr 29 08:06:48 UTC 2019


Thanks Evin. That will be very helpful.

Marita

On 4/29/2019 9:23 AM, Evin Erdogdu wrote:
>
> Dear All,
>
>
>   Please see an At-Large workspace devoted to the ALAC Statement on
>   Registry Agreements
>   <https://community.icann.org/display/alacpolicydev/At-Large+Workspace%3A+ALAC+Statement+on+Registry+Agreements>:
>   https://community.icann.org/x/-oSGBg
>
>
>   The current draft of the statement is here, and comments from this
>   mailing list will be copied over.
>
>
>   Thank you,
>
>
>   Evin
>
> *From: *registration-issues-wg 
> <registration-issues-wg-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of 
> Holly Raiche <h.raiche at internode.on.net>
> *Date: *Monday, April 29, 2019 at 9:30 AM
> *To: *Greg Shatan <greg at isoc-ny.org>
> *Cc: *CPWG <cpwg at icann.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [registration-issues-wg] [CPWG] [GTLD-WG] Fwd: FW: 
> Draft Comment on RA Renewals
>
> Greg
>
> I fear it is almost too late, but I will repeat what I said on the 
> CPWG: .ORG is special and if we don’t comment on the others, or if 
> comments on .ASIA are made separately, we should, at least, comment on 
> .ORG which is for international non-profits - in the end user 
> interest.  And to make a point that was made in the conversation, 
> monitoring will not help; once a contract is signed, arrangements are 
> made based upon that contract, so undoing those arrangements because a 
> review says they aren’t operating as they should would be nigh on 
> impossible.
>
> Holly
>
>
>
>     On Apr 29, 2019, at 3:58 PM, Greg Shatan <greg at isoc-ny.org
>     <mailto:greg at isoc-ny.org>> wrote:
>
>     Siva,
>
>     I don’t disagree with you. ISOC’s mission is much broader than
>     ICANN, much less At-Large.  I am as trying to say that At-Large
>     should view ISOC with a certain kinship, based on shared values
>     and support for priorities that ultimately benefit the end-users —
>     the Internet is for everyone!
>
>      But the broad spectrum of activities and priorities that ISOC has
>     goes far beyond At-Large’s “band.”
>
>     On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 1:33 AM sivasubramanian muthusamy
>     <6.internet at gmail.com <mailto:6.internet at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         On Mon, Apr 29, 2019, 10:44 AM Greg Shatan <greg at isoc-ny.org
>         <mailto:greg at isoc-ny.org>> wrote:
>
>             I would be happy, Marita, to beef up the last line of the
>             comment and make that aspect more substantial generally!  
>             Please send your editorial suggestions.  As for what ICANN
>             should do, one possibility is that ICANN reserves the
>             right to roll back price increases, in whole or in part,
>             if the price hikes are abusive or discriminatory.
>
>             All, I still hope that there is room for a comment here. 
>             It would be particularly unfortunate if we fail to comment
>             on the .ORG renewal.  Roberto’s email encapsulates many of
>             the reasons why.  I look at ISOC as almost
>
>             a sister organization of At-Large.
>
>         No. Please don't equate ISOC with one Constituency of ICANN.
>         Rather, ISOC's mission is larger than the DNS. While ICANN
>         perceives limitations in it's mission, ISOC's policies and
>         programs span way beyond, and what ISOC does results in what
>         is good for the DNS.
>
>             As Roberto points out, ISOC works to accomplish many goals
>             that it shares with At-Large.  ISOC also supports the IETF
>             and even provides its corporate “home.” PIR runs on
>             similar principles. PIR is not a run of the mill
>             commercial registry.  In many ways, it was put into
>             business by ISOC.  Yet the essence of the concerted
>             campaign against .ORG is that PIR can’t be trusted to
>             abstain from massive price increases, that ISOC could and
>             possibly would push it to do so, and that ISOC is a
>             parasitical organization sucking money out of other
>             non-profits. I feel like we would be throwing ISOC under
>             the bus if we fail to comment on the .ORG renewal in
>             particular.  [Disclosure: I am the President & Chair of an
>             At Large Structure that is also an ISOC Chapter, ISOC-NY.]
>
>             Originally, my draft dealt only with .org. We could just
>             go back to that focus.  We can leave a general discussion
>             of price caps to one side if we don’t expand this to .biz
>             and .info (and .asia doesn’t have price caps now).
>
>             Based on the discussions we had, I aimed to limit the
>             comment to the concrete issues raised by the agreement
>             rather than go beyond the agreement to some of the broader
>             registry issues.  But that’s a question of approach and
>             I’m fine with a broader statement.   Alternatively, we
>             could decide not to comment on .biz and .info at all,
>             limit the current statement to .org, and put in a brief UA
>             statement for .asia.   But first we would have to get any
>             drafts, revisions, etc. out on the table so we can see
>             what we’re dealing with.
>
>             Even asking for an extension is a double-edged sword,
>             since that keeps the doors open for more of the
>             cut-and-paste comments that have been filed in opposition
>             to these renewals.
>
>             Best regards,
>
>             Greg
>
>             On Sat, Apr 27, 2019 at 2:34 AM Marita Moll
>             <mmoll at ca.inter.net <mailto:mmoll at ca.inter.net>> wrote:
>
>                 I am reading powerful arguments on both sides of this
>                 issue and then reading Greg's proposed comment again.
>                 In the particular case of .org, and should we decide
>                 to go in the direction that Greg has mapped, would it
>                 be possible to beef up the last line. It seems like a
>                 throw away but it could be a good bridge between the
>                 opposing points of view. The comment asks that ICANN
>                 "monitor" future price increases and any market
>                 responses to those increases. What should ICANN do if
>                 it decides the increases are unwarranted?
>
>                 @Christopher -- eh bien, le poisson est encore vivant !!
>
>                 Marita
>
>                 On 4/26/2019 5:41 PM, Greg Shatan wrote:
>
>                     Justine,
>
>                     Thank you for your kind words and helpful comments.
>
>                     Unfortunately, the “party” got rained out.  The
>                     CPWG decided not to approve this statement,
>                     whether it covers all the renewals or is limited
>                     to .ORG.  So nothing is being sent to the ALAC for
>                     their consideration. I think it’s a good
>                     statement, and it would be made better with your
>                     suggestions.  I am considering revising this
>                     draft, cutting the subject back to .ORG and
>                     submitting it individually.  Also, circulating it
>                     for others to submit — either individually or with
>                     multiple signatures.
>
>                     In particular, I am concerned there are a number
>                     of comments being made that tend to denigrate PIR
>                     and ISOC.  This is something I would like to
>                     counter.  [Full disclosure: I am the President of
>                     ISOC-NY (an At-Large Structure) and participate
>                     here in that capacity. However, I have not yet
>                     asked the ISOC-NY Board to consider endorsing this
>                     statement, so I am discussing it here in my
>                     individual capacity.]. I honestly think much of
>                     what has been said about PIR and ISOC has been
>                     untrue or exaggerated and fails to to give credit
>                     to ISOC for its mission and unique place in the
>                     internet ecosystem.
>
>                     I believe that PIR was hoping for a comment along
>                     the lines of our first draft (which I believe they
>                     saw on our site) or our second draft.  I’m not
>                     comfortable leaving PIR and ISOC to be “thrown
>                     under the bus” by ill-informed and prejudicial
>                     comments. If ALAC will not comment (or more
>                     precisely, if the CPWG wont send ALAC a draft
>                     comment for their consideration), then it behooves
>                     those who support this statement to submit it or
>                     use it as a basis for their own comments.
>
>                     Best regards,
>
>                     Greg
>
>                     On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 6:02 AM Justine Chew
>                     <justine.chew at gmail.com
>                     <mailto:justine.chew at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>                         Thanks to Greg Shatan for the 24 April draft
>                         statement.
>
>                         My comments / suggestion are as follows:-
>
>                         1. I wonder if it might be better to prepare
>                         (and submit) 2 statements instead of a
>                         consolidated one ie. one to address .BIZ, .ORG
>                         and .INFO and another for .ASIA.. This is
>                         because .ASIA had a "different playing field
>                         of no price caps" to begin with and in this
>                         way, any concerns about price cap removals for
>                         .BIZ, .ORG and .INFO can be addressed squarely
>                         in comparison with .NET and with reference to
>                         the ALAC's 2017 comment. Given that we don't
>                         seem to be offering comments to the inclusion
>                         of some RPMs.
>
>                         2. In any case, the draft starts with
>                         "Background" but doesn't indicate where that
>                         backgrounder ends and where the present
>                         comment begins.
>
>                         3. Related to the point about standardizing
>                         RAs as being a good approach, it be useful to
>                         draw attention to the use of Addendums as the
>                         controlled means for handling necessary
>                         variations.
>
>                         4. Would it not be incumbent on At-Large to
>                         also support (or least comment on)
>                         regularizing the inclusion of PICs in these RA
>                         renewals (if any)?
>
>                         5. As for UA, it's not clear (to me at least)
>                         what we want all ROs to do about it at this
>                         point. Given community interest on UA has
>                         increased further in recent meetings, actual
>                         responsibilities might be better framed in due
>                         course. So, it may be prudent to tackle the
>                         inclusion of UA into the base Registry
>                         Agreement by amending Specification 6, or
>                         possibly by way of a consensus policy addition
>                         in Specification 1, at a later date.
>
>
>                         Justine
>
>                         (my apologies for being late to the "party")
>
>
>                         -----
>
>                         On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at 04:15, Evin Erdogdu
>                         <evin.erdogdu at icann.org
>                         <mailto:evin.erdogdu at icann.org>> wrote:
>
>                             Thank you Greg; this draft ALAC Statement
>                             on the 4 Registry Agreement Public
>                             Comments is posted to each workspace, for
>                             comment:
>
>                             At-Large Workspace: Proposed Renewal of
>                             .biz Registry Agreement
>                             <https://community.icann.org/display/alacpolicydev/At-Large+Workspace%3A+Proposed+Renewal+of+.biz+Registry+Agreement>
>
>                             At-Large Workspace: Proposed Renewal of
>                             .asia Registry Agreement
>                             <https://community.icann.org/display/alacpolicydev/At-Large+Workspace%3A+Proposed+Renewal+of+.asia+Registry+Agreement>
>
>                             At-Large Workspace: Proposed Renewal of
>                             .org Registry Agreement
>                             <https://community.icann.org/display/alacpolicydev/At-Large+Workspace%3A+Proposed+Renewal+of+.org+Registry+Agreement>
>
>                             At-Large Workspace: Proposed Renewal of
>                             .info Registry Agreement
>                             <https://community.icann.org/display/alacpolicydev/At-Large+Workspace%3A+Proposed+Renewal+of+.info+Registry+Agreement>
>
>                             Kind Regards,
>
>                             Evin
>
>                             *From: *GTLD-WG
>                             <gtld-wg-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>                             <mailto:gtld-wg-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org>>
>                             on behalf of Greg Shatan <greg at isoc-ny.org
>                             <mailto:greg at isoc-ny.org>>
>                             *Date: *Wednesday, April 24, 2019 at 2:44 PM
>                             *To: *CPWG <cpwg at icann.org
>                             <mailto:cpwg at icann.org>>, Evin Erdogdu
>                             <evin.erdogdu at icann.org
>                             <mailto:evin.erdogdu at icann.org>>, Jonathan
>                             Zuck <JZuck at innovatorsnetwork.org
>                             <mailto:JZuck at innovatorsnetwork.org>>
>                             *Subject: *[GTLD-WG] [CPWG] Fwd: FW: Draft
>                             Comment on RA Renewals
>
>                             *Please see attached.*
>
>                             -- 
>
>                             Greg Shatan
>
>                             greg at isoc-ny.org <mailto:greg at isoc-ny.org>
>
>                             President, ISOC-NY
>
>                             /"The Internet is for everyone"/
>
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>                     -- 
>
>                     Greg Shatan
>
>                     greg at isoc-ny.org <mailto:greg at isoc-ny.org>
>
>                     President, ISOC-NY
>
>                     /"The Internet is for everyone"/
>
>
>
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>             -- 
>
>             Greg Shatan
>
>             greg at isoc-ny.org <mailto:greg at isoc-ny.org>
>
>             President, ISOC-NY
>
>             /"The Internet is for everyone"/
>
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>     -- 
>
>     Greg Shatan
>
>     greg at isoc-ny.org <mailto:greg at isoc-ny.org>
>
>     President, ISOC-NY
>
>     /"The Internet is for everyone"/
>
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