[GTLD-WG] [CPWG] [registration-issues-wg] Fwd: FW: Draft Comment on RA Renewals

Marita Moll mmoll at ca.inter.net
Mon Apr 29 17:27:02 UTC 2019


Hi Holly. It is not too late. We have an extension till May 2. I think a 
lot of people are agreeing with your concerns.

Marita

On 4/29/2019 8:29 AM, Holly Raiche wrote:
> Greg
>
> I fear it is almost too late, but I will repeat what I said on the 
> CPWG: .ORG is special and if we don’t comment on the others, or if 
> comments on .ASIA are made separately, we should, at least, comment on 
> .ORG which is for international non-profits - in the end user 
> interest.  And to make a point that was made in the conversation, 
> monitoring will not help; once a contract is signed, arrangements are 
> made based upon that contract, so undoing those arrangements because a 
> review says they aren’t operating as they should would be nigh on 
> impossible.
>
> Holly
>
>> On Apr 29, 2019, at 3:58 PM, Greg Shatan <greg at isoc-ny.org 
>> <mailto:greg at isoc-ny.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Siva,
>>
>> I don’t disagree with you. ISOC’s mission is much broader than ICANN, 
>> much less At-Large. I am as trying to say that At-Large should view 
>> ISOC with a certain kinship, based on shared values and support for 
>> priorities that ultimately benefit the end-users — the Internet is 
>> for everyone!
>>
>>  But the broad spectrum of activities and priorities that ISOC has 
>> goes far beyond At-Large’s “band.”
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 1:33 AM sivasubramanian muthusamy 
>> <6.internet at gmail.com <mailto:6.internet at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>     On Mon, Apr 29, 2019, 10:44 AM Greg Shatan <greg at isoc-ny.org
>>     <mailto:greg at isoc-ny.org>> wrote:
>>
>>         I would be happy, Marita, to beef up the last line of the
>>         comment and make that aspect more substantial generally!
>>         Please send your editorial suggestions.  As for what ICANN
>>         should do, one possibility is that ICANN reserves the right
>>         to roll back price increases, in whole or in part, if the
>>         price hikes are abusive or discriminatory.
>>
>>         All, I still hope that there is room for a comment here.  It
>>         would be particularly unfortunate if we fail to comment on
>>         the .ORG renewal.  Roberto’s email encapsulates many of the
>>         reasons why. I look at ISOC as almost
>>
>>
>>         a sister organization of At-Large.
>>
>>
>>     No. Please don't equate ISOC with one Constituency of ICANN.
>>     Rather, ISOC's mission is larger than the DNS. While ICANN
>>     perceives limitations in it's mission, ISOC's policies and
>>     programs span way beyond, and what ISOC does results in what is
>>     good for the DNS.
>>
>>         As Roberto points out, ISOC works to accomplish many goals
>>         that it shares with At-Large.  ISOC also supports the IETF
>>         and even provides its corporate “home.”   PIR runs on similar
>>         principles.  PIR is not a run of the mill commercial
>>         registry.  In many ways, it was put into business by ISOC. 
>>         Yet the essence of the concerted campaign against .ORG is
>>         that PIR can’t be trusted to abstain from massive price
>>         increases, that ISOC could and possibly would push it to do
>>         so, and that ISOC is a parasitical organization sucking money
>>         out of other non-profits. I feel like we would be throwing
>>         ISOC under the bus if we fail to comment on the .ORG renewal
>>         in particular.  [Disclosure: I am the President & Chair of an
>>         At Large Structure that is also an ISOC Chapter, ISOC-NY.]
>>
>>         Originally, my draft dealt only with .org.  We could just go
>>         back to that focus. We can leave a general discussion of
>>         price caps to one side if we don’t expand this to .biz and
>>         .info (and .asia doesn’t have price caps now).
>>
>>         Based on the discussions we had, I aimed to limit the comment
>>         to the concrete issues raised by the agreement rather than go
>>         beyond the agreement to some of the broader registry issues. 
>>         But that’s a question of approach and I’m fine with a broader
>>         statement. Alternatively, we could decide not to comment on
>>         .biz and .info at all, limit the current statement to .org,
>>         and put in a brief UA statement for .asia.   But first we
>>         would have to get any drafts, revisions, etc. out on the
>>         table so we can see what we’re dealing with.
>>
>>         Even asking for an extension is a double-edged sword, since
>>         that keeps the doors open for more of the cut-and-paste
>>         comments that have been filed in opposition to these renewals.
>>
>>         Best regards,
>>
>>         Greg
>>
>>
>>         On Sat, Apr 27, 2019 at 2:34 AM Marita Moll
>>         <mmoll at ca.inter.net <mailto:mmoll at ca.inter.net>> wrote:
>>
>>             I am reading powerful arguments on both sides of this
>>             issue and then reading Greg's proposed comment again. In
>>             the particular case of .org, and should we decide to go
>>             in the direction that Greg has mapped, would it be
>>             possible to beef up the last line. It seems like a throw
>>             away but it could be a good bridge between the opposing
>>             points of view. The comment asks that ICANN "monitor"
>>             future price increases and any market responses to those
>>             increases. What should ICANN do if it decides the
>>             increases are unwarranted?
>>
>>             @Christopher -- eh bien, le poisson est encore vivant !!
>>
>>
>>             Marita
>>
>>             On 4/26/2019 5:41 PM, Greg Shatan wrote:
>>>             Justine,
>>>
>>>             Thank you for your kind words and helpful comments.
>>>
>>>             Unfortunately, the “party” got rained out.  The CPWG
>>>             decided not to approve this statement, whether it covers
>>>             all the renewals or is limited to .ORG.  So nothing is
>>>             being sent to the ALAC for their consideration. I think
>>>             it’s a good statement, and it would be made better with
>>>             your suggestions.  I am considering revising this draft,
>>>             cutting the subject back to .ORG and submitting it
>>>             individually.  Also, circulating it for others to submit
>>>             — either individually or with multiple signatures.
>>>
>>>             In particular, I am concerned there are a number of
>>>             comments being made that tend to denigrate PIR and
>>>             ISOC.  This is something I would like to counter.  [Full
>>>             disclosure: I am the President of ISOC-NY (an At-Large
>>>             Structure) and participate here in that capacity. 
>>>             However, I have not yet asked the ISOC-NY Board to
>>>             consider endorsing this statement, so I am discussing it
>>>             here in my individual capacity.]. I honestly think much
>>>             of what has been said about PIR and ISOC has been untrue
>>>             or exaggerated and fails to to give credit to ISOC for
>>>             its mission and unique place in the internet ecosystem.
>>>
>>>             I believe that PIR was hoping for a comment along the
>>>             lines of our first draft (which I believe they saw on
>>>             our site) or our second draft.  I’m not comfortable
>>>             leaving PIR and ISOC to be “thrown under the bus” by
>>>             ill-informed and prejudicial comments.  If ALAC will not
>>>             comment (or more precisely, if the CPWG wont send ALAC a
>>>             draft comment for their consideration), then it behooves
>>>             those who support this statement to submit it or use it
>>>             as a basis for their own comments.
>>>
>>>             Best regards,
>>>
>>>             Greg
>>>
>>>             On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 6:02 AM Justine Chew
>>>             <justine.chew at gmail.com <mailto:justine.chew at gmail.com>>
>>>             wrote:
>>>
>>>                 Thanks to Greg Shatan for the 24 April draft statement.
>>>
>>>                 My comments / suggestion are as follows:-
>>>
>>>                 1. I wonder if it might be better to prepare (and
>>>                 submit) 2 statements instead of a consolidated one
>>>                 ie. one to address .BIZ, .ORG and .INFO and another
>>>                 for .ASIA.. This is because .ASIA had a "different
>>>                 playing field of no price caps" to begin with and in
>>>                 this way, any concerns about price cap removals for
>>>                 .BIZ, .ORG and .INFO can be addressed squarely in
>>>                 comparison with .NET and with reference to the
>>>                 ALAC's 2017 comment. Given that we don't seem to be
>>>                 offering comments to the inclusion of some RPMs.
>>>
>>>                 2. In any case, the draft starts with "Background"
>>>                 but doesn't indicate where that backgrounder ends
>>>                 and where the present comment begins.
>>>
>>>                 3. Related to the point about standardizing RAs as
>>>                 being a good approach, it be useful to draw
>>>                 attention to the use of Addendums as the controlled
>>>                 means for handling necessary variations.
>>>
>>>                 4. Would it not be incumbent on At-Large to also
>>>                 support (or least comment on) regularizing the
>>>                 inclusion of PICs in these RA renewals (if any)?
>>>
>>>                 5. As for UA, it's not clear (to me at least) what
>>>                 we want all ROs to do about it at this point. Given
>>>                 community interest on UA has increased further in
>>>                 recent meetings, actual responsibilities might be
>>>                 better framed in due course. So, it may be prudent
>>>                 to tackle the inclusion of UA into the base Registry
>>>                 Agreement by amending Specification 6, or possibly
>>>                 by way of a consensus policy addition in
>>>                 Specification 1, at a later date.
>>>
>>>                 Justine
>>>                 (my apologies for being late to the "party")
>>>
>>>                 -----
>>>
>>>
>>>                 On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at 04:15, Evin Erdogdu
>>>                 <evin.erdogdu at icann.org
>>>                 <mailto:evin.erdogdu at icann.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>                     Thank you Greg; this draft ALAC Statement on the
>>>                     4 Registry Agreement Public Comments is posted
>>>                     to each workspace, for comment:
>>>
>>>
>>>                     At-Large Workspace: Proposed Renewal of .biz
>>>                     Registry Agreement
>>>                     <https://community.icann.org/display/alacpolicydev/At-Large+Workspace%3A+Proposed+Renewal+of+.biz+Registry+Agreement>
>>>
>>>                     At-Large Workspace: Proposed Renewal of .asia
>>>                     Registry Agreement
>>>                     <https://community.icann.org/display/alacpolicydev/At-Large+Workspace%3A+Proposed+Renewal+of+.asia+Registry+Agreement>
>>>
>>>                     At-Large Workspace: Proposed Renewal of .org
>>>                     Registry Agreement
>>>                     <https://community.icann.org/display/alacpolicydev/At-Large+Workspace%3A+Proposed+Renewal+of+.org+Registry+Agreement>
>>>
>>>                     At-Large Workspace: Proposed Renewal of .info
>>>                     Registry Agreement
>>>                     <https://community.icann.org/display/alacpolicydev/At-Large+Workspace%3A+Proposed+Renewal+of+.info+Registry+Agreement>
>>>
>>>
>>>                     Kind Regards,
>>>
>>>                     Evin
>>>
>>>
>>>                     *From: *GTLD-WG
>>>                     <gtld-wg-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>>>                     <mailto:gtld-wg-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org>>
>>>                     on behalf of Greg Shatan <greg at isoc-ny.org
>>>                     <mailto:greg at isoc-ny.org>>
>>>                     *Date: *Wednesday, April 24, 2019 at 2:44 PM
>>>                     *To: *CPWG <cpwg at icann.org
>>>                     <mailto:cpwg at icann.org>>, Evin Erdogdu
>>>                     <evin.erdogdu at icann.org
>>>                     <mailto:evin.erdogdu at icann.org>>, Jonathan Zuck
>>>                     <JZuck at innovatorsnetwork.org
>>>                     <mailto:JZuck at innovatorsnetwork.org>>
>>>                     *Subject: *[GTLD-WG] [CPWG] Fwd: FW: Draft
>>>                     Comment on RA Renewals
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>                     *Please see attached.*
>>>
>>>                     -- 
>>>
>>>                     Greg Shatan
>>>
>>>                     greg at isoc-ny.org <mailto:greg at isoc-ny.org>
>>>
>>>                     President, ISOC-NY
>>>
>>>                     /"The Internet is for everyone"/
>>>
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>>>             -- 
>>>             Greg Shatan
>>>             greg at isoc-ny.org <mailto:greg at isoc-ny.org>
>>>             President, ISOC-NY
>>>             /"The Internet is for everyone"/
>>>
>>>             _______________________________________________
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>>>             https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
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>>
>>         -- 
>>         Greg Shatan
>>         greg at isoc-ny.org <mailto:greg at isoc-ny.org>
>>         President, ISOC-NY
>>         /"The Internet is for everyone"/
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         CPWG mailing list
>>         CPWG at icann.org <mailto:CPWG at icann.org>
>>         https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
>>         _______________________________________________
>>
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>>         <mailto:registration-issues-wg at atlarge-lists.icann.org>
>>         https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg
>>
>> -- 
>> Greg Shatan
>> greg at isoc-ny.org <mailto:greg at isoc-ny.org>
>> President, ISOC-NY
>> /"The Internet is for everyone"/
>> _______________________________________________
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