[GTLD-WG] [CPWG] reference list re: amazon PICs

Marita Moll mmoll at ca.inter.net
Mon Sep 30 15:23:46 UTC 2019


Thanks Carlton and Jonathan, for your comments on this. But it is still 
unclear to me whether or not these pics are anything more than window 
dressing. I wonder whether any recommendations we might make would have 
any hope of making a difference.

Just as a reminder, the PIC proposal includes, in addition to the 
creation of a joint Steering Committee (under the control of 
Amazon.org), the following commitments:

 1. "Not use as domain names in each .AMAZONTLDthose terms that have a
    primary and well-recognized significance to the culture and heritage
    of the Amazonia region;
 2. Provide nine domain names in each .AMAZONTLDto be used for
    non-commercial purposes by ACTO and its member states to enhance the
    visibility of the region; and
 3. Block from all use up to 1500 domain names in each .AMAZONTLDthat
    have a primary and well recognized significance to the culture and
    heritage of the Amazonia region"

Marita

On 9/29/2019 6:25 PM, Jonathan Zuck wrote:
> If I might moderate this a TINY bit, I can confirm that the cctrt 
> found enforcement to be woefully underwhelming and part of the problem 
> was structural. Compliance lacks some of the mechanisms needed to look 
> atcontracted parties wholistically. Hense some of the recommendations 
> from the RT.
>
> That said, I suspect these particular ones are different as they are 
> mostly about reserve strings by a registry that doesn't lack for cash. 
> I think a lot of pics are abandoned because of money and every 
> registry, with few exceptions, migrates towards the generic to 
> maximize sales. (there are recs in that as well). In THIS case, money 
> is no object but the utility of the domain is. In other words, if the 
> demands are Too high, the utility of the domain suffers but I believe 
> that will all be resolved before launch and that enforcement, in this 
> particular case, won't be a problem.
>
> Just MY two cents.
> Jonathan
>
> Jonathan Zuck
> Executive Director
> Innovators Network Foundation
> www.Innovatorsnetwork.org <http://www.Innovatorsnetwork.org>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* GTLD-WG <gtld-wg-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of 
> Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 29, 2019 12:07:14 PM
> *To:* Marita Moll <mmoll at ca.inter.net>
> *Cc:* CPWG <cpwg at icann.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [GTLD-WG] [CPWG] reference list re: amazon PICs
> Hi Marita:
> To answer you directly, yes, I do not see any useful movement coming. 
> So conserve the energy.
>
> We have been down the road before. The history is that during the 
> horsetrading of what was the 2012 round, this entire idea and process 
> was, IMHO, just something thrown on for 'feel good', for stickiness 
> and to get ICANN over a hump. The right "optics" was the most 
> important objective. And the applicants for strings grabbed it like a 
> drowning man grabs at straws floating in the ocean.  It worked.
>
> Voluntary or contracted, it does not matter. The problem is 
> enforcement. And, the mechanisms for enforcement.
>
> First of all, the voluntary ones were just that. Except the sleight of 
> hand that somehow their status was elided to become "enforceable" 
> under contract. The nature of the "contracted" ones are that they make 
> up and are part of the business model of the registry. Those present a 
> few difficulties for me.
>
> First, I'm philosophically opposed to ICANN regulating a business 
> model. Because that inures to the position that ICANN is picking 
> 'winners and losers' in the DNS marketplace. You can't be both free 
> marketer and what amounts to being a freebooter at once.
>
> Next, and the substantive point. In respect of PICDRP, look at who has 
> standing to make the complaint. And, to be the principal adjudicator 
> of said complaint. And, who bears the costs for that adjudication.  
> Always follow the money. For in the end, it is the most compelling factor.
>
> In my view, there are more than may reasons why this is a dog that 
> won't hunt. First, ICANN org has shown very little appetite to enforce 
> these contracts to the "t". And if that must be done at their cost, I 
> can build you a thousand reasons to find that 'unhelpful'.  
> Bottomline, diminishing returns, much ado about nothing. And, not 
> worth the energy of the few.
>
> My 2 cents.
>
> Best,
> -Carlton
>
> ==============================
> /Carlton A Samuels/
> /Mobile: 876-818-1799
> Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround/
> =============================
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 2:13 AM Marita Moll <mmoll at ca.inter.net 
> <mailto:mmoll at ca.inter.net>> wrote:
>
>     So, is your recommendation that we just not bother getting into
>     this? You will know that there is a pic dispute resolution
>     process. You are saying this is not adequate?
>
>     It is a serious question. I don't have a strong sense yet, from
>     the community, about our role in this process. In fact, in the
>     processes offered to address it, the ICANN application comment
>     form (see below) it looks like only individuals can send in comments.
>
>     Marita
>
>     On 9/27/2019 12:45 AM, Carlton Samuels wrote:
>>     The PICs live and die on enforcement.  Long ago, I declared them
>>     to be not 'worth a bucket of warm spit'.
>>
>>     You needn't be clairvoyant or particularly prescient to see the
>>     enforcement mechanism would have been useless for those who are
>>     aggrieved unless there are third party enforcement rights of action.
>>
>>     -Carlton
>>
>>     ==============================
>>     /Carlton A Samuels/
>>     /Mobile: 876-818-1799
>>     Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround/
>>     =============================
>>
>>
>>     On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 10:48 AM Marita Moll <mmoll at ca.inter.net
>>     <mailto:mmoll at ca.inter.net>> wrote:
>>
>>         Hello CPWG members. As requested please see below the primary
>>         and secondary sources that were used in researching the
>>         Amazon PICs issue
>>
>>         Primary sources:
>>
>>         *Approved Board resolutions; special meeting of the Board 
>>         May 15, 2019
>>
>>         https://www.icann.org/resources/board-material/resolutions-2019-05-15-en#1.c
>>
>>         *Text of .amazon PICS -- E-mail to ICANN Board
>>
>>         https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/huseman-to-chalaby-17apr19-en.pdf
>>
>>         *Marby to Zaluar correspondence -- June 13, 2019
>>
>>         https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/marby-to-zaluar-13jun19-en.pdf
>>
>>         *ICANN Application comment form
>>
>>         https://gtldcomment.icann.org/applicationcomment/login
>>
>>         Secondary sources:
>>
>>         *Domain Mondo's weekly Internet domain news review June 2, 2019
>>
>>         www.domainmondo.com/2019/06/news-review-icann-gnso-epdp-phase-2.html
>>         <http://www.domainmondo.com/2019/06/news-review-icann-gnso-epdp-phase-2.html>
>>
>>
>>         *Hold your horses; the last wave of comments on .amazon
>>         hasn't started yet
>>
>>         Kevin Murphy May 24, 2019
>>
>>         domainincite.com/24300-hold-your-horses-the-last-wave-of-comments-on-amazon-hasnt-started-yet
>>         <http://domainincite.com/24300-hold-your-horses-the-last-wave-of-comments-on-amazon-hasnt-started-yet>
>>
>>         *Amazon wins; ICANN on verge of approving .amazon despite
>>         government outrage
>>
>>         Kevin Murphy, May 19, 2019
>>
>>         domainincite.com/24260-amazon-wins-icann-on-verge-of-approving-amazon-despite-government-outrage
>>         <https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/brcrb7/icann_on_verge_of_approving_amazon_for_amazon_inc/>
>>
>>
>>         *.amazon domains are getting closer
>>
>>         Konstantinos Zournas May 29, 2019
>>
>>         https://onlinedomain.com/2019/05/20/domain-name-news/amazon-domain-names-are-getting-closer/
>>
>>         *Jeff Bezos finally gets .Amazon after DNS overlord runs out
>>         of excuses to delay decision any further
>>
>>         Kieran McCarthy May 21, 2019
>>
>>         https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/05/21/bezos_finally_gets_amazon/
>>
>>
>>         *ICANN says Amazon In's application for .amazon TLD can
>>         proceed following 30 days of public comment
>>
>>         May 20, 2019
>>
>>         www.circleid.com/posts/20190520_icann_says_amazon_inc_application_for_dot_amazon_can_proceed/
>>         <http://www.circleid.com/posts/20190520_icann_says_amazon_inc_application_for_dot_amazon_can_proceed/>
>>
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