[GTLD-WG] [CPWG] reference list re: amazon PICs

Jonathan Zuck JZuck at innovatorsnetwork.org
Mon Sep 30 19:37:54 UTC 2019


Which seems like plenty

Jonathan Zuck
Executive Director
Innovators Network Foundation
www.Innovatorsnetwork.org<http://www.Innovatorsnetwork.org>

________________________________
From: Marita Moll <mmoll at ca.inter.net>
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2019 11:23:46 AM
To: Jonathan Zuck <JZuck at innovatorsnetwork.org>; Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels at gmail.com>
Cc: CPWG <cpwg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [GTLD-WG] [CPWG] reference list re: amazon PICs


Thanks Carlton and Jonathan, for your comments on this. But it is still unclear to me whether or not these pics are anything more than window dressing. I wonder whether any recommendations we might make would have any hope of making a difference.

Just as a reminder, the PIC proposal includes, in addition to the creation of a joint Steering Committee (under the control of Amazon.org), the following commitments:

  1.  "Not use as domain names in each .AMAZON TLD those terms that have a primary and well-recognized significance to the culture and heritage of the Amazonia region;
  2.  Provide nine domain names in each .AMAZON TLD to be used for non-commercial purposes by ACTO and its member states to enhance the visibility of the region; and
  3.  Block from all use up to 1500 domain names in each .AMAZON TLD that have a primary and well recognized significance to the culture and heritage of the Amazonia region"

Marita

On 9/29/2019 6:25 PM, Jonathan Zuck wrote:
If I might moderate this a TINY bit, I can confirm that the cctrt found enforcement to be woefully underwhelming and part of the problem was structural. Compliance lacks some of the mechanisms needed to look atcontracted parties wholistically. Hense some of the recommendations from the RT.

That said, I suspect these particular ones are different as they are mostly about reserve strings by a registry that doesn't lack for cash. I think a lot of pics are abandoned because of money and every registry, with few exceptions, migrates towards the generic to maximize sales. (there are recs in that as well). In THIS case, money is no object but the utility of the domain is. In other words, if the demands are Too high, the utility of the domain suffers but I believe that will all be resolved before launch and that enforcement, in this particular case, won't be a problem.

Just MY two cents.
Jonathan

Jonathan Zuck
Executive Director
Innovators Network Foundation
www.Innovatorsnetwork.org<http://www.Innovatorsnetwork.org>

________________________________
From: GTLD-WG <gtld-wg-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org><mailto:gtld-wg-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels at gmail.com><mailto:carlton.samuels at gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2019 12:07:14 PM
To: Marita Moll <mmoll at ca.inter.net><mailto:mmoll at ca.inter.net>
Cc: CPWG <cpwg at icann.org><mailto:cpwg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [GTLD-WG] [CPWG] reference list re: amazon PICs

Hi Marita:
To answer you directly, yes, I do not see any useful movement coming. So conserve the energy.

We have been down the road before. The history is that during the horsetrading of what was the 2012 round, this entire idea and process was, IMHO, just something thrown on for 'feel good', for stickiness and to get ICANN over a hump. The right "optics" was the most important objective. And the applicants for strings grabbed it like a drowning man grabs at straws floating in the ocean.  It worked.

Voluntary or contracted, it does not matter. The problem is enforcement. And, the mechanisms for enforcement.

First of all, the voluntary ones were just that. Except the sleight of hand that somehow their status was elided to become "enforceable" under contract. The nature of the "contracted" ones are that they make up and are part of the business model of the registry. Those present a few difficulties for me.

First, I'm philosophically opposed to ICANN regulating a business model. Because that inures to the position that ICANN is picking 'winners and losers' in the DNS marketplace. You can't be both free marketer and what amounts to being a freebooter at once.

Next, and the substantive point. In respect of PICDRP, look at who has standing to make the complaint. And, to be the principal adjudicator of said complaint. And, who bears the costs for that adjudication.  Always follow the money. For in the end, it is the most compelling factor.

In my view, there are more than may reasons why this is a dog that won't hunt. First, ICANN org has shown very little appetite to enforce these contracts to the "t". And if that must be done at their cost, I can build you a thousand reasons to find that 'unhelpful'.  Bottomline, diminishing returns, much ado about nothing. And, not worth the energy of the few.

My 2 cents.

Best,
-Carlton

==============================
Carlton A Samuels
Mobile: 876-818-1799
Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround
=============================


On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 2:13 AM Marita Moll <mmoll at ca.inter.net<mailto:mmoll at ca.inter.net>> wrote:

So, is your recommendation that we just not bother getting into this? You will know that there is a pic dispute resolution process. You are saying this is not adequate?

It is a serious question. I don't have a strong sense yet, from the community, about our role in this process. In fact, in the processes offered to address it, the ICANN application comment form (see below) it looks like only individuals can send in comments.

Marita

On 9/27/2019 12:45 AM, Carlton Samuels wrote:
The PICs live and die on enforcement.  Long ago, I declared them to be not 'worth a bucket of warm spit'.

You needn't be clairvoyant or particularly prescient to see the enforcement mechanism would have been useless for those who are aggrieved unless there are third party enforcement rights of action.

-Carlton

==============================
Carlton A Samuels
Mobile: 876-818-1799
Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround
=============================


On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 10:48 AM Marita Moll <mmoll at ca.inter.net<mailto:mmoll at ca.inter.net>> wrote:

Hello CPWG members. As requested please see below the primary and secondary sources that were used in researching the Amazon PICs issue

Primary sources:

*Approved Board resolutions; special meeting of the Board  May 15, 2019

https://www.icann.org/resources/board-material/resolutions-2019-05-15-en#1.c

*Text of .amazon PICS -- E-mail to ICANN Board

https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/huseman-to-chalaby-17apr19-en.pdf

*Marby to Zaluar correspondence -- June 13, 2019

https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/marby-to-zaluar-13jun19-en.pdf

*ICANN Application comment form

https://gtldcomment.icann.org/applicationcomment/login


Secondary sources:

*Domain Mondo's weekly Internet domain news review June 2, 2019

www.domainmondo.com/2019/06/news-review-icann-gnso-epdp-phase-2.html
<http://www.domainmondo.com/2019/06/news-review-icann-gnso-epdp-phase-2.html>


*Hold your horses; the last wave of comments on .amazon hasn't started yet

Kevin Murphy May 24, 2019

domainincite.com/24300-hold-your-horses-the-last-wave-of-comments-on-amazon-hasnt-started-yet
<http://domainincite.com/24300-hold-your-horses-the-last-wave-of-comments-on-amazon-hasnt-started-yet>

*Amazon wins; ICANN on verge of approving .amazon despite government outrage

Kevin Murphy, May 19, 2019

domainincite.com/24260-amazon-wins-icann-on-verge-of-approving-amazon-despite-government-outrage<https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/brcrb7/icann_on_verge_of_approving_amazon_for_amazon_inc/>


*.amazon domains are getting closer

Konstantinos Zournas May 29, 2019

https://onlinedomain.com/2019/05/20/domain-name-news/amazon-domain-names-are-getting-closer/


*Jeff Bezos finally gets .Amazon after DNS overlord runs out of excuses to delay decision any further

Kieran McCarthy May 21, 2019

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/05/21/bezos_finally_gets_amazon/


*ICANN says Amazon In's application for .amazon TLD can proceed following 30 days of public comment

May 20, 2019

www.circleid.com/posts/20190520_icann_says_amazon_inc_application_for_dot_amazon_can_proceed/
<http://www.circleid.com/posts/20190520_icann_says_amazon_inc_application_for_dot_amazon_can_proceed/>

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