[IANAtransition] [IANAxfer] Global public interest in Internet identifieradministration...
apisanty at gmail.com
Sun Apr 6 14:19:07 UTC 2014
wrong. It is not commerce. If it is in your view, the ITU is a monopoly as
well, for every good - spectrum allocation, standards, anyone - that it
makes or has made available at cost per piece or for members only.
But who am I to change your views? You have written a full book (soon for
sale at a price of over 100 dollars) to prove that no amount of evidence or
others' opinions will cause you to reconsider.
On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 9:14 AM, Richard Hill <rhill at hill-a.ch> wrote:
> Dear Alejandro,
> ICANN is a monopoly in the sense that it is the only supplier of top-level
> domain names, which is a specific commodity.
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* Alejandro Pisanty [mailto:apisanty at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* dimanche, 6. avril 2014 15:56
> *To:* Richard Hill
> *Cc:* John Curran; michael gurstein; ianatransition at icann.org;
> Ianaxfer at Elists. Isoc. Org
> *Subject:* Re: [IANAxfer] [IANAtransition] Global public interest in
> Internet identifieradministration...
> data point: no, ICANN is not a monopoly. It does not sell goods or
> services. It is no more a monopoly than the entities mentioned in many of
> the later discussions, like the RIRs or those in charge of the uniqueness
> of credit and debit card numbers, ISBN book numbers, and other, similar
> You can quote me in your forthcoming book. In the corresponding paragraph
> you will please substitute "as we know" for "as, despite knowing better,
> some continue to say."
> Alejandro Pisanty
> On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 7:39 AM, Richard Hill <rhill at hill-a.ch> wrote:
>> I agree with you that one has to identify specific areas where there might
>> be public policy concerns.
>> In addition to the ones you outline below, competition policy is probably
>> such an area. As we know, ICANN is a monopoly. So either you create
>> competition, or you supervise it.
>> Regarding the issues you refer to below, no, there is no global agreement,
>> which is why we are having so many discussions. But that implies that
>> issues should never have been brought into the DNS. That is, we should
>> avoided technical decisions that resulted in the creation of global issues
>> that are insoluble at the global level.
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: ianatransition-bounces at icann.org
>> > [mailto:ianatransition-bounces at icann.org]On Behalf Of John Curran
>> > Sent: dimanche, 6. avril 2014 14:29
>> > To: michael gurstein
>> > Cc: Ianaxfer at Elists. Isoc. Org; ianatransition at icann.org
>> > Subject: [IANAtransition] Global public interest in Internet
>> > identifieradministration...
>> > On Apr 5, 2014, at 5:45 PM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com>
>> > > Surely the major difference between the credit card numbering
>> > system and the
>> > > Internet numbering system is that with credit cards folks are
>> > able to decide
>> > > whether or not to use credit cards and many people in the world are
>> > > completely unaffected by credit cards and will remain so for
>> > the foreseeable
>> > > future. With the Internet for significant parts of the world,
>> > being able to
>> > > effectively access and use the Internet is becoming for many purposes
>> > > effectively compulsory i.e. there are easily accessible
>> > alternatives and the
>> > > significance of the Internet including for many of those not
>> > actually using
>> > > it (they are economically, socially, culturally etc. connected to
>> > > individuals or institutions who are using it) is now or rapidly
>> > > pervasive.
>> > I agree with the above statement regarding the importance of the
>> > Internet...
>> > over at 1net discuss, in updating the problem statement, I noted
>> > it as such -
>> > "The values in the Internet registries (particularly in the case of the
>> > general-purpose identifier registries, i.e. DNS space and IP address
>> > spaces) underlie the Internet itself, i.e. one of the most significant
>> > technological developments with far reaching social and economic
>> > It's not possible to foresee all of the various manners in which the
>> > Internet will affect the life of everyone globally in the coming
>> > and hence we need to adopt proactively a set of principles that will
>> > insure that everyone has an opportunity to understand and participate
>> > in administration of the underlying identifier system."
>> > > What that means I think, is that there is a (global) public
>> > interest in how
>> > > Internet numbers are handled/administered/governed whereas for
>> > credit card
>> > > numbers that interest is to a considerable degree sectional. So
>> > the question
>> > > of how that "public interest" is made effective/operative has to be a
>> > > consideration in these discussions.
>> > While agreeing with your observation about the importance of the
>> > I question your assertion above that such an importance
>> > automatically raises
>> > a "global public interest" in the _administration of Internet
>> > identifiers".
>> > I believe that the importance of the Internet does creating an
>> > overarching
>> > need that everyone has an opportunity to understand and participate in
>> > administration of the underlying identifier system, but when it comes to
>> > "global public interest", I do not believe that such automatically
>> > regarding the administration of Internet identifiers, instead noting
>> > the "global public interest", lies with the overall successful operation
>> > of the Internet (which is a very different statement.)
>> > Automatically equating the importance of the Internet into a
>> > "global public
>> > interest" in the administration of Internet identifiers (simply because
>> > the identifiers are necessary for its operation) is faulty logic,
>> > and would
>> > require us also to define a global public interest a priori in the many
>> > other activities, for example, in the manufacturing of fiber optic
>> > the design of the hardware and software of your desktop computer, and
>> > design of IETF protocols; as all of these are necessary for success of
>> > Internet as well.
>> > There is definitely high potential for public interest aspects in
>> > parts of the Internet identifier system (as folks have noted with
>> > respect to
>> > DNS names, context, marks, etc.) but such instances when
>> > encountered need to
>> > be carefully exhumed, and then noted to governments to see if
>> > there exists
>> > any corresponding global standard or norm on the matter which
>> > would allow for
>> > a global framework for solution. To otherwise declare some form
>> > of enveloping
>> > "global public interest" in Internet identifier administration
>> > only serves to
>> > significantly encumber the development and advancement of the
>> > Internet, and
>> > thus deprive the global community of the very social and economic
>> > benefits
>> > that one is trying to protect.
>> > FYI,
>> > /John
>> > Disclaimer: My views alone.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > ianatransition mailing list
>> > ianatransition at icann.org
>> > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ianatransition
>> IANAxfer mailing list
>> IANAxfer at elists.isoc.org
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> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
> Facultad de Química UNAM
> Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
Facultad de Química UNAM
Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
+525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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