[Idngwg] Minutes of meeting from 24 Nov.

Sarmad Hussain sarmad.hussain at icann.org
Wed Nov 30 21:49:06 UTC 2016 

Dear Dennis,

 

It suggests two items.  

 

The first is regarding the homoglyph variants across scripts.  

 

There may be additional cases when two LGRs are used from the same script.  As an example, if you have a Persian LGR and an Arabic language LGR, each may create kitab, “book” label, as follows: کتاب and كتاب.  As you can see that these are identical, but they have different Kaf letters (06A9 vs. 0643).  Thus, though Persian LGR may not have a variant Kaf defined, and Arabic LGR may not have a Kaf variant defined if they are used independently, if these two LGRs are used to generate labels for the same zone, each needs to be adjusted to make sure that these two labels are variants of each other.  

 

“Harmonization” is not intended to have a special meaning here. We can use an alternative word, if that makes it more readable.  

 

Regards,
Sarmad

 

 

 

From: Tan Tanaka, Dennis [mailto:dtantanaka at verisign.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 1:12 PM
To: Sarmad Hussain <sarmad.hussain at icann.org>; idngwg at icann.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Idngwg] Minutes of meeting from 24 Nov.

 

Dear all,

 

Could someone define what harmonization means in the context of these guidelines? It seems to me that we are talking about homoglyph variants across scripts (e.g. Cyrillic a, Greek alpha and Latin a), so I am a bit confused about the new term. 

 

Thanks,
Dennis

 

From: <idngwg-bounces at icann.org <mailto:idngwg-bounces at icann.org> > on behalf of Sarmad Hussain <sarmad.hussain at icann.org <mailto:sarmad.hussain at icann.org> >
Date: Tuesday, November 29, 2016 at 9:43 AM
To: "idngwg at icann.org <mailto:idngwg at icann.org> " <idngwg at icann.org <mailto:idngwg at icann.org> >
Subject: Re: [Idngwg] Minutes of meeting from 24 Nov.

 

Dear All,

 

The suggested text for AI 2 below does not address existing cases where harmonization may be needed and also suggests harmonization of existing IDN tables in the future when any changes are made.  However, when this harmonization is done, existing registrations which may be affected – e.g. “cox” may be registered both in Latin and Cyrillic scripts at second level under some TLDs, etc.  So we need a discussion on how to address such cases.

 

Regards,
Sarmad

 

From: idngwg-bounces at icann.org <mailto:idngwg-bounces at icann.org>  [mailto:idngwg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Sarmad Hussain
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 3:18 PM
To: idngwg at icann.org <mailto:idngwg at icann.org> 
Subject: [Idngwg] Minutes of meeting from 24 Nov.

 

Dear All,

 

Please find attached summary of the meeting of the WG on 24 Nov.  Please let me know if there are any changes or suggestions.

 

The meeting had the following AIs:

 


S. No.

Action Items 

Owner


1

Add footnote to refer to “code point sequences” and not add that in the text for readability 

SH


2

Draft recommendation for harmonization of LGRs to be put in Section 2.7.

SH


3

Confirm with WG members if it is ok to move to a weekly schedule

SH

 

Here is the suggested text for review and feedback for AI 2 above:

If a combination of multiple LGRs and/or IDN tables is used to generate labels for the same zone at the second (or other) level, there are harmonization requirements for a workable and secure system.  The harmonization must be performed in cases where there are multiple LGRs and/or IDN tables either (i) from the same script which is known to have variant code points, e.g. based on analysis for the root zone, or (ii) from different scripts which are considered related in the root zone and have homoglyphs, e.g. Armenian, Cyrillic, Greek, and Latin.  In such cases, harmonization must be performed when there is either a change in existing LGR or addition of a new LGR.  The harmonization must review code point repertoire, variant analysis and whole label evaluation rules to ensure that there are no security and stability issues introduced.

 

Please also note that the WG members in the meeting suggested moving to a weekly schedule to make more progress.  Please let us know, if this does not work for you for any reason.  Otherwise we will switch to a weekly meetings.

 

The next meeting is schedule for 1 Dec. 11am UTC.

 

The attached notes of the meeting and the recording of the meeting are available at the IDNGWG wiki page at https://community.icann.org/display/IDN/IDN+Implementation+Guidelines[community.icann.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_display_IDN_IDN-26-2343-3BImplementation-26-2343-3BGuidelines&d=DgMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=KTETvEaGPwPcawI-QmNa-kiv-ZBvdgyyLm-mxd028M4&m=qb60CAxX6KBoTKrz9l9UIkCprjXK_j5UO1tVFeXzoNc&s=orK0qb9Sed8RnLqvGrEsZiNIk0ckJpTpEH5u-Oncjw0&e=> . 

 

Regards,
Sarmad

 

 

 

 

From: idngwg-bounces at icann.org <mailto:idngwg-bounces at icann.org>  [mailto:idngwg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Sarmad Hussain
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2016 1:05 AM
To: Edmon Chung <edmon at registry.asia <mailto:edmon at registry.asia> >; idngwg at icann.org <mailto:idngwg at icann.org> 
Subject: [Idngwg] Updated document for call today (24 Nov.)

 

Thank you Edmon.

 

Dear All, 

 

I have added Edmon’s suggestions and summary of comments received during ICANN 57 (circulated earlier) in the attached updated draft.

 

Where it seemed relevant, reference to “code point sequence” in addition to “code point” is also added.

 

We will use this version for our discussion today.

 

Regards,
Sarmad

 

 

From: Edmon Chung [mailto:edmon at registry.asia] 
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2016 1:14 PM
To: Sarmad Hussain <sarmad.hussain at icann.org <mailto:sarmad.hussain at icann.org> >; idngwg at icann.org <mailto:idngwg at icann.org> 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [Idngwg] ICANN 57 summary and resuming calls for IDNGWG

 

Adding 2.6.2 as discussed at our meeting before the ICANN meetings, and some adjustments to the proposed definitions related to IDN Variants.

Edmon

 

 

===================================

 

2.6       IDN Variant Labels (Partially Discussed)

 

2.6.1    IDN Variant Labels generated by an IDN Table or a LGR must be allocated to the same registrant or blocked.

 

2.6.2    Only IDN Variant Labels with a disposition of "allocatable" may be included in the DNS.  IDN Variant Labels may be automatically delegated by the TLD registry in accordance with RFC 3743 (i.e. Preferred Variants), otherwise IDN Variant Labels may be activated when requested by the Registrant (or through a sponsoring Registrar) of the Primary IDN.

 

===================================

 

 

 

 

===================================

Proposed Definitions to be included:

===================================

Variant

The term "variant" is used generally to identify different types of linguistic situations where different words are considered to be the same (i.e. a variant) of another word.  Because of the wide-ranging understanding of the term, to avoid confusion more specific terms such as "IDN Variant", "IDN Variant Character" or "IDN Variant Label" should be used. 

===================================

IDN Variant (IDN Variant Character and IDN Variant Label)

IDN Variant is defined by an LGR.  The term "IDN Variant" maybe used to reasonably describe an IDN Variant Character (code point or code point sequence) or an IDN Variant Label depending on its context.  An IDN Variant character is defined in relation to a base character within an IDN Table, such as expressed by an LGR.  An IDN Variant Label is a string generated from a Primary IDN based on a given LGR (or IDN Table and IDN registration rules).

===================================

Primary IDN

Primary IDN is the string representing the domain name applied for submitted by a registrant.

===================================

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: idngwg-bounces at icann.org <mailto:idngwg-bounces at icann.org>  [mailto:idngwg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Edmon Chung
Sent: Monday, 21 November 2016 20:33 PM
To: 'Sarmad Hussain' <sarmad.hussain at icann.org <mailto:sarmad.hussain at icann.org> >; idngwg at icann.org <mailto:idngwg at icann.org> 
Subject: Re: [Idngwg] ICANN 57 summary and resuming calls for IDNGWG

 

Thanks Sarmad for the summary.

Edmon

 

 

 

From: idngwg-bounces at icann.org <mailto:idngwg-bounces at icann.org>  [mailto:idngwg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Sarmad Hussain
Sent: Sunday, 20 November 2016 16:19 PM
To: idngwg at icann.org <mailto:idngwg at icann.org> 
Subject: [Idngwg] ICANN 57 summary and resuming calls for IDNGWG

 

Dear All,

 

For those at ICANN 57, hope you have arrived home safely, rested and caught up with work.  

 

We had a good interaction at ICANN 57, where the room was full with community members.  Thanks to Edmon for leading the session and for others for attending the session in person and remotely.  

 

We received feedback from the community.    Here are some salient comments received (for those who attended, please feel free to add further).  Please see the attached transcript[schd.ws] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__schd.ws_hosted-5Ffiles_icann572016_1c_I57-2520HYD-5FSat05Nov2016-2DIDN-2520Implementation-2520Guidelines-2520WG-2520Meeting-2Den.pdf&d=DgMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=KTETvEaGPwPcawI-QmNa-kiv-ZBvdgyyLm-mxd028M4&m=ncgc8cezf0p0sr7_0b9V7E7dzqrd5wG1t7GNC_VFAkk&s=ytnegf_XLdHKYMjxp36nYW7l65X7q0lUbmJjwhxtCQY&e=>  of the session for details.

 

-        Repertoire may contain code points AND code point sequences.  So recommendations should be worded accordingly

-        Align definitions of label dispositions with those in RFC 7940 and clarify the label disposition state changes

-        Use of LGR (as a black box) should be explained in the guidelines to generate disposition and variants of a label

-        The relationship to root zone LGR and scope of guidelines may be clarified.  Can anything be said for root zone LGR, i.e. how second level and root level LGRs are same or different? 

o   We clarify how a particular point may be different at second level, from the root zone, in order to actually clarify the second level handling of that issue.

o   And if there are two LGRs that are in the same zone, even if it’s in the second level, they may have some harmonization requirements that are not really optional for a workable and secure system, which is different from parallel TLDs; Definition of a variant of a code point is unique and shared across all LGRs within a zone (within a single TLD)

 

We would now like to resume our calls.  I will schedule on for the coming week.  

 

Regards,
Sarmad

 

 

From: idngwg-bounces at icann.org <mailto:idngwg-bounces at icann.org>  [mailto:idngwg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Sarmad Hussain
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2016 11:47 PM
To: idngwg at icann.org <mailto:idngwg at icann.org> 
Subject: [Idngwg] IMPORTAN: ICANN 57 presentation and working draft document available for circulation

 

Dear All,

 

The updated document[community.icann.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_display_IDN_IDN-2BImplementation-2BGuidelines-3Fpreview-3D_56144699_63146672_IDN-2520Guidelines-25204.0-252020161102.pdf&d=DgMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=KTETvEaGPwPcawI-QmNa-kiv-ZBvdgyyLm-mxd028M4&m=ncgc8cezf0p0sr7_0b9V7E7dzqrd5wG1t7GNC_VFAkk&s=dNrzSGxmcilZ25LUpPQHgBGiFA821L8UHbCtBPOudUc&e=>  has been uploaded to the IDNGWG wiki page[community.icann.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_display_IDN_IDN-2BImplementation-2BGuidelines&d=DgMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=KTETvEaGPwPcawI-QmNa-kiv-ZBvdgyyLm-mxd028M4&m=ncgc8cezf0p0sr7_0b9V7E7dzqrd5wG1t7GNC_VFAkk&s=G13Tyw3lvWWTnDXJhQXTvkhQr0oAf3uo0V9Iwbl4qao&e=>  and the presentation[schd.ws] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__schd.ws_hosted-5Ffiles_icann572016_bb_ICANN57-2520IDNGWG.pdf&d=DgMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=KTETvEaGPwPcawI-QmNa-kiv-ZBvdgyyLm-mxd028M4&m=ncgc8cezf0p0sr7_0b9V7E7dzqrd5wG1t7GNC_VFAkk&s=OvAzUtI3TdhzPInX75-4zE_llvq8dmffiNcrF4UOSLM&e=>  has been uploaded in the ICANN 57 schedule page for this session[icann572016.sched.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__icann572016.sched.org_event_8cwK_internationalized-2Ddomain-2Dname-2Dimplementation-2Dguidelines-2Dworking-2Dgroup-2Dmeeting&d=DgMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=KTETvEaGPwPcawI-QmNa-kiv-ZBvdgyyLm-mxd028M4&m=ncgc8cezf0p0sr7_0b9V7E7dzqrd5wG1t7GNC_VFAkk&s=uLDtMza259YIbn3xzS_i1b-1mzw-A7UPEPZgkacw6jQ&e=> .  

 

Please share with your colleagues and encourage them to come attend the session[icann572016.sched.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__icann572016.sched.org_event_8cwK_internationalized-2Ddomain-2Dname-2Dimplementation-2Dguidelines-2Dworking-2Dgroup-2Dmeeting&d=DgMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=KTETvEaGPwPcawI-QmNa-kiv-ZBvdgyyLm-mxd028M4&m=ncgc8cezf0p0sr7_0b9V7E7dzqrd5wG1t7GNC_VFAkk&s=uLDtMza259YIbn3xzS_i1b-1mzw-A7UPEPZgkacw6jQ&e=>  and provide feedback.

 

Regards,
Sarmad

 

 

From: idngwg-bounces at icann.org <mailto:idngwg-bounces at icann.org>  [mailto:idngwg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Sarmad Hussain
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2016 10:58 PM
To: Tan Tanaka, Dennis <dtantanaka at verisign.com <mailto:dtantanaka at verisign.com> >; idngwg at icann.org <mailto:idngwg at icann.org> 
Subject: Re: [Idngwg] FEEDBACK REQUESTED: IDNGWG meeting notes 27 Oct. 2016 + ICANN 57 presentations

 

Dear All,

 

As there is no additional feedback, we will finalize the document based on Dennis’ comments and upload to the wiki page for sharing with community members.

 

Regards,
Sarmad

 

 

From: idngwg-bounces at icann.org <mailto:idngwg-bounces at icann.org>  [mailto:idngwg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Sarmad Hussain
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 9:46 AM
To: Tan Tanaka, Dennis <dtantanaka at verisign.com <mailto:dtantanaka at verisign.com> >; idngwg at icann.org <mailto:idngwg at icann.org> 
Subject: Re: [Idngwg] FEEDBACK REQUESTED: IDNGWG meeting notes 27 Oct. 2016 + ICANN 57 presentations

 

Dear Dennis, thank you for your detailed feedback and suggestions. “Cont.” means “continued”.  I put that in as we have partially discussed (and have one recommendation) on IDN Variant Labels and may do further work on this topic.  For other topics, not yet discussed, I have put in “TBD”.  We do not have a target date at this time, but that is something we can discuss and decide.

 

Dear all, 

 

please use the document with the edits by Dennis for any further suggestions. 

 

Regards,
Sarmad

 

 

From: Tan Tanaka, Dennis [mailto:dtantanaka at verisign.com] 
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 1:56 AM
To: Sarmad Hussain <sarmad.hussain at icann.org <mailto:sarmad.hussain at icann.org> >; idngwg at icann.org <mailto:idngwg at icann.org> 
Subject: Re: [Idngwg] FEEDBACK REQUESTED: IDNGWG meeting notes 27 Oct. 2016 + ICANN 57 presentations

 

Sarmad, et al

 

Please find enclosed proposed edits and questions.

 

Good work!

 

-Dennis

 

From: <idngwg-bounces at icann.org <mailto:idngwg-bounces at icann.org> > on behalf of Sarmad Hussain <sarmad.hussain at icann.org <mailto:sarmad.hussain at icann.org> >
Date: Friday, October 28, 2016 at 12:17 PM
To: "idngwg at icann.org <mailto:idngwg at icann.org> " <idngwg at icann.org <mailto:idngwg at icann.org> >
Subject: [Idngwg] FEEDBACK REQUESTED: IDNGWG meeting notes 27 Oct. 2016 + ICANN 57 presentations

 

Dear All,

 

Your feedback is requested especially on items 2 and 3 below by 1 Nov. before posting and circulating for ICANN 57.

 

Please find attached the following:

 

1.      Summary of our meeting on 27 October 2016 (docx + pdf).  Please let me know in case of any changes.  

2.      Updated Guidelines document (docx + pdf), also published at our wiki page (to be circulated to the community on 2 Nov.)

3.      The two updated presentations based on the discussion during the call (please see the attached meeting notes for the changes made)

 

>From the meeting, we have the following action items:

 


S. No.

Action Items 

Owner


1

Review updated recommendation 12 on IDN Variant Labels

ALL


2

Update the ICANN 57 presentations and share with the IDNGWG for finalization

SH

 

The attached notes of the meeting, the recording of the meeting and the Guidelines document are available at the IDNGWG wiki page at https://community.icann.org/display/IDN/IDN+Implementation+Guidelines[community.icann.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_display_IDN_IDN-26-2343-3BImplementation-26-2343-3BGuidelines&d=DQMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=KTETvEaGPwPcawI-QmNa-kiv-ZBvdgyyLm-mxd028M4&m=Qaz7xa6tzQ0-XnTwc7LN0KGJdoV_PhzNwZEeuUL02Dk&s=0s4VGJ7b2ZJHFldc1msrR-YjtmEkBg1rh_xnqDgFfYQ&e=> . 

 

Our next meetings are planned during ICANN 57, per the following details:

 

There is a 1hr15min face to face meeting of IDNGWG as per the following schedule:

 

*        Sat, 5 Nov., 1100-1215, Granite (Novotel): IDN Impl. Guidelines WG Meeting  

(https://icann572016.sched.org/event/8cwK/internationalized-domain-name-implementation-guidelines-working-group-meeting[icann572016.sched.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__icann572016.sched.org_event_8cwK_internationalized-2Ddomain-2Dname-2Dimplementation-2Dguidelines-2Dworking-2Dgroup-2Dmeeting&d=DQMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=KTETvEaGPwPcawI-QmNa-kiv-ZBvdgyyLm-mxd028M4&m=Qaz7xa6tzQ0-XnTwc7LN0KGJdoV_PhzNwZEeuUL02Dk&s=zgPMEX5eMSCnN5IqguaD8S-EghsVb8dUvqNgUH_E9VE&e=> )  

In addition, there is a 7 minute update by IDNGWG during the IDN Program Update session, as per the following details:

 

*        Sun, 6 Nov., 0830-0945, MR 1.02: IDN Program Update (7 min update by IDNGWG)

(https://icann572016.sched.org/event/8dPX/internationalized-domain-name-program-update[icann572016.sched.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__icann572016.sched.org_event_8dPX_internationalized-2Ddomain-2Dname-2Dprogram-2Dupdate&d=DQMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=KTETvEaGPwPcawI-QmNa-kiv-ZBvdgyyLm-mxd028M4&m=Qaz7xa6tzQ0-XnTwc7LN0KGJdoV_PhzNwZEeuUL02Dk&s=BXKiCME9zeQt7rL5hawMUEqqR4AnRIQDRAlfT_fu64I&e=> ) 

o   IDN Program – Overview and Progress - 15 mins 

o   Update by Integration Panel – 10 mins

o   Update on IDN Implementation Guideline - 7 mins

o   Community Update

*  Ethiopic GP Update – 7 mins

*  Georgian GP Update – 7 mins

*  Neo-Brahmi GP Update – 7 mins

*  Thai GP Update – 7 mins 

o   Q/A – 15 mins

 

 

Regards,

Sarmad

 

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