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<div>Agree. “Consensus” is not equivalent to “Unanimity.” </div>
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<div>J.</div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span><Drazek>, Keith Drazek <<a href="mailto:kdrazek@verisign.com">kdrazek@verisign.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Thursday, August 14, 2014 at 13:10 <br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>ICG List <<a href="mailto:internal-cg@icann.org">internal-cg@icann.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Internal-cg] Consensus building process<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Just so I’m clear…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Looking ahead….if we end up with 29 ICG reps in favor of a final recommendation and one person who unreasonably refuses to compromise, will that be
deemed “consensus” or “no consensus?”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hypothetically speaking, if one holdout among us can obstruct a decision that has received support from all other members, and would prevent delivery
of a recommendation….I find that very troubling.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Keith<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">
<a href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org">internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>WUKnoben<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 14, 2014 1:47 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kavouss Arasteh<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Coordination Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Internal-cg] Consensus building process<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">Dear Kavouss,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">you make the same point I expressed by saying that “I’m still uncertain with “non-substantive” issues which level of substance may depend on different views”. I would welcome
you providing other more useful criteria to decide in which rare cases a “poll” or “voting” could apply.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">As you may have seen in my latest draft I removed the “adjectives” from consensus. So I would appreciate your written suggestion for an acceptable
text that I could better understand your disagreement with the present proposal.<br>
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Best regards<br>
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Wolf-Ulrich<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;"><a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" title="kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com">Kavouss
Arasteh</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;">Sent:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;"> Thursday, August 14, 2014 7:22
PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;">To:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;"><a href="mailto:wolf-ulrich.knoben@t-online.de" title="wolf-ulrich.knoben@t-online.de">
WUKnoben</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;">Cc:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;"><a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu" title="mueller@syr.edu">Milton
L Mueller</a> ; <a href="mailto:Martin.Boyle@nominet.org.uk" title="Martin.Boyle@nominet.org.uk">
Martin Boyle</a> ; <a href="mailto:internal-cg@icann.org" title="internal-cg@icann.org">
Coordination Group</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;">Subject:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;"> Re: [Internal-cg] Consensus
building process<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">Dear All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">I am not comfortable to any of these measures.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">The more we discuss and analyze ,the more problem is created.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">I strongly disagree to make any discrimination among the contstituent groups in ICG ,WHEN IT IS PROPOSED qUOTE<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">"For substantive issues, at least none of the “customer groups” (numbers, protocols, gTLDs or ccTLDs) of the IANA remains strongly opposed"</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">What is considered by someone " substantive" may be considered by others " non substantive,</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">NO ADJECTIVE FOR OPPOSITION .NO ADJECTIVE FOR SCONSENSUS.</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">If you want instead of making progress to draft another chatter or convention for decision making ,I disagree with that .</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">It ios incumbent to the chair and the two vice chairs to make utmost efforts to build consensus-</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Pls end this discussion</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Regards</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Kavouss
</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">2014-08-14 18:32 GMT+02:00 WUKnoben <<a href="mailto:wolf-ulrich.knoben@t-online.de" target="_blank">wolf-ulrich.knoben@t-online.de</a>>:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">Thanks all for your valuable input.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">Milton is right calling for verbal clarity. But differentation is also needed and there are different approaches to achieve it. And as I said before the suggestion so far was
based on GNSO habit.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">I tried to accomodate the discussion and therefore suggest to differentiate between “recommendation by consensus” (highest level, 100%) and “recommendation” (all remaining discussion
results leading to a recommendation).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">I agree to all basic principles Martin came up with and incorporated them.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">I’m still uncertain with “non-substantive” issues which level of substance may depend on different views.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">I would appreciate further fruitful discussion on the list and we will hopefully see an end at our call next week.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">See my edits attached.<br>
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Best regards<br>
<br>
Wolf-Ulrich<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;"><a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu" target="_blank" title="mueller@syr.edu">Milton
L Mueller</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;">Sent:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;"> Tuesday, August 12, 2014 8:12
PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;">To:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;"><a href="mailto:Martin.Boyle@nominet.org.uk" target="_blank" title="Martin.Boyle@nominet.org.uk">
'Martin Boyle'</a> ; <a href="mailto:internal-cg@icann.org" target="_blank" title="internal-cg@icann.org">
Coordination Group</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;">Subject:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;"> Re: [Internal-cg] Consensus
building process<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I think Martin makes very good points here.
</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I like his proposed principles, every one of them.
</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I must confess that I have been wincing at the way the word “consensus” is (ab)used routinely
in these circles. Either it is truly consensus, and everyone either agrees or agrees not to object, or it is _something else_. Will we please stop trying to apply the term “consensus” to supermajority voting processes? My academic commitment to verbal clarity
and directness is screaming at me that this is wrong.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The IETF concept of “rough” consensus is an informal mechanism that is suitable for a more
homogeneous environment in which adherence to standards is voluntary anyway, but in an environment with binding outcomes and political factions, it can and, in the ICANN context, frequently HAS merely provided a rationalization for ignoring significant minority
points of view. </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">--MM</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;"><a href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Martin Boyle<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 12, 2014 1:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Coordination Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Internal-cg] Consensus building process</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi All,</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">First thanks to Wolf-Ulrich for his paper. I greatly like the idea of standards
of good behaviour and mutual respect – and I’m pleased to see that this is already very much the framework for the way that the ICG works. I’d also note that the analysis of shades of grey in levels of support is interesting – was it Patrik who first noted
the two extremes (non-substantial and substantial issues) and the level of consensus that might be needed? I’m just not sure I know how to use them…</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I’d firmly endorse the aim that “the ICG … reach at least Consensus on the
Proposal for the IANA Stewardship Transition to be forwarded to the NTIA” subject to our continued effort to try to achieve full/unanimous consensus or (at least) to have addressed address points of concern.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">However, I do not like processes that are supposed to be by consensus being
resolved by voting (cf WCIT): voting leaves winners and losers. It also means that people get lazy and fail to look for compromise or common ground or ways to address “reasonable” concerns. That aversion is not really addressed by supermajorities: even
at an 80% supermajority, all the domain name registries or all the government representatives or all GNSO members could be overruled. At 85% all the ccTLD registries, at 90% all the gTLD registries could be ignored.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I do recognise the need for a mechanism that allows us to come to a final
recommendation and I’m afraid that I do not see any magic wand. But I would suggest a number of basic principles:</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.25in"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">·</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">
</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The aim of the discussion should be to try to find a solution where *<b>no member of the ICG still maintains serious opposition to the outcome.</b>*
Reasons for objections should be given, allowing the ICG wherever possible to try to address those concerns.</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.25in"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">·</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">
</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">*<b>Recourse to any form of voting should be the exception.</b>* Its use might be fine for non-substantive issues. For substantive issues, at least
none of the “customer groups” (numbers, protocols, gTLDs or ccTLDs) of the IANA remains strongly opposed.</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.25in"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">·</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">
</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Group members who still have problems with the evaluation should be invited to *<b>identify possible ways in which the proposal could be modified to
make it acceptable to them.</b>*</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.25in"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">·</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">
</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Discussions should continue until *<b>no “IANA customer” group is firmly opposed.</b>*
</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">One final point: I would be willing to allow anyone who feels that they have
not been heard to put a minority view into the final report. I’d rather that did not happen, but if the views are strong enough, it would be best to have then documented in the report than to be first aired in the discussion that follows the publication of
our final report.</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Cheers</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Martin</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;"><a href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kavouss Arasteh<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 11 August 2014 20:48<br>
<b>To:</b> Drazek, Keith<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Coordination Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Internal-cg] Consensus building process</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Dear All,</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Undoubtedly, it would be super majority either 2/3 or 4/5 .</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">Kavouss
</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">2014-08-11 18:18 GMT+02:00 Drazek, Keith <<a href="mailto:kdrazek@verisign.com" target="_blank">kdrazek@verisign.com</a>>:</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:black">I agree that we will need a clear process for determining consensus that falls somewhere on the spectrum between humming and requiring a unanimous
vote.<br>
<br>
If we get in to discussions of voting, we'll also need to address the thresholds required to establish consensus. Is it a simple majority? Super-majority? Unanimous voting is an unhelpful requirement that would likely obstruct our work and our ability to deliver,
so I believe that should be a non-starter for the ICG. We need to avoid the possibility of one dissenting vote undermining an otherwise strongly supported recommendation that represents broad community consensus.<br>
<br>
However, if/when there is not full consensus, it will be important that we have a mechanism for expressing dissenting opinions. The GNSO Registries Stakeholder Group employs a "minority statement" mechanism to allow for all views to be expressed when there
is consensus but not unanimity on a particular topic. Perhaps we should consider a similar mechanism for the ICG.<br>
</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#888888"><br>
Keith</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a>] On Behalf Of Subrenat, Jean-Jacques<br>
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 6:09 AM<br>
To: Kavouss Arasteh<br>
Cc: Coordination Group<br>
Subject: Re: [Internal-cg] Consensus building process<br>
<br>
Hello Colleagues,<br>
<br>
>From the experience of the past few weeks, unfortunately we can conclude that the current process is not successful. Rather than meting out blame or praise, we need to understand why it's not working. Group dynamics and a bit of sociology can help.<br>
<br>
Our Coordination Group is different from what some of us/you have come to consider as "normal". The technical bodies (IETF, IAB) have developed an efficient process where "rough consensus" is understood and accepted. But other components of the ICG have different
habits, and also a different accountability mechanism: however attractive "rough" may be, it is insufficient. For example, the GAC has its own rules (a joint position can only be reached by unanimity), and the ALAC routinely conducts all its votes on a full-membership
basis (each member has to say ay, nay, abstain, or be noted down as not having cast a vote).<br>
<br>
So the challenge is this: is the "rough consensus" really adapted to all the needs of our group? With the experience gained collectively in London, and especially since then, I would recommend a dual approach:<br>
<br>
A/ MATTERS REQUIRING ALL MEMBERS TO VOTE (typically, to be decided as soon as possible, with the exception of our Transition plan)<br>
- Chair structure and membership,<br>
- Charter of the ICG,<br>
- choice of Secretariat (ICANN or outside of ICANN, or a mixture of both),<br>
- choice of near-final drafts and approval of final draft of our Transition plan, before presentation to the NTIA.<br>
<br>
B/ MATTERS WHERE OTHER FORMS OF DECISION-MAKING ARE ACCEPTABLE<br>
- Appraisal of specific community input, as a contribution to the ICG's recommended plan (e.g. ALAC should appraise input from its own community before submitting it to the whole ICG),<br>
- external relations and communications of the ICG (once the Chair structure has been chosen and populated, it may wish to ask Chair, or another of its members, to be the point of contact),<br>
- administrative & logistic matters, in conjunction with the chosen Secretariat (here too, delegation would be possible).<br>
<br>
I'm prepared to provide a more detailed proposal for the above items.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Jean-Jacques.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
----- Mail original -----<br>
De: "Kavouss Arasteh" <<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" target="_blank">kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a>><br>
À: "Patrik Fältström" <<a href="mailto:paf@frobbit.se" target="_blank">paf@frobbit.se</a>><br>
Cc: "Coordination Group" <<a href="mailto:internal-cg@icann.org" target="_blank">internal-cg@icann.org</a>><br>
Envoyé: Lundi 11 Août 2014 10:40:08<br>
Objet: Re: [Internal-cg] Consensus building process<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Dear Wolf<br>
Thank you very much for reply<br>
My point is that if one or more ICG Mmember(s) is7are againszt the ruling of the Chir ,They could raise their issue and the matter must be settled by simple explanation or if not resolved by voting . I.E. CHAIR DOES NOT HAVE DECISION MAKING POWER ON HE OR HIS
OWN WISHES RATHER TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT VIEWS OF MEMBERS Regards KAVOUSS Regards<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
2014-08-11 8:33 GMT+02:00 Patrik Fältström < <a href="mailto:paf@frobbit.se" target="_blank">
paf@frobbit.se</a> > :<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 11 aug 2014, at 08:09, WUKnoben < <a href="mailto:wolf-ulrich.knoben@t-online.de" target="_blank">
wolf-ulrich.knoben@t-online.de</a> > wrote:<br>
<br>
> The chair’s designation that consensus is reached is not her/his own decision rather than a wrap-up of extensive discussions. Of course this designation can be challenged by members. And this is what triggers your question about “If several participants in
the ICG disagree with the designation given ...”. I’m open to any helpful suggestion on how we could procede in such a case.<br>
> In the end consensus - as defined – has to be achieved.<br>
<br>
Let me emphasize what you say here, which I strongly agree with.<br>
<br>
We must deliver.<br>
<br>
This implies we must be able to reach consensus.<br>
<br>
The last couple of weeks discussions on various topics makes me a bit pessimistic on the ability for us to reach consensus, but I am optimistic, always optimistic, on peoples ability and interest in actually deliver.<br>
<br>
Remember that the chair is calling on the consensus question, not the substance. That way the power of the chair is decreased to a minimum and process issues.<br>
<br>
Patrik<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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