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Colleagues:<br>
<br>
Perhaps we can consider a different dividing line on consensus. I
would suggest that we have two main buckets, that which is related
to a proposal and that which is related to our operations. For
operations 2/3 of those expressing an opinion is sufficient to
arrive at decisions, but for issues related to proposals we need
more than 2/3 (other percent?) of all members with no more than 2
participating organizations dissenting. The role of the chair would
thus be constrained by rules regarding when consensus is achieved,
but the chair would have the ability to manage discussion or call
for a formal vote if they believed it would help move us towards
consensus.<br>
<br>
Slightly less complex and perhaps more action-oriented.<br>
<br>
Joe<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/14/2014 2:26 PM, James M. Bladel
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:D012697C.6EB93%25jbladel@godaddy.com"
type="cite">
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<div>Agree. “Consensus” is not equivalent to “Unanimity.” </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>J.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span><Drazek>,
Keith Drazek <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kdrazek@verisign.com">kdrazek@verisign.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Thursday, August
14, 2014 at 13:10 <br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>ICG List <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:internal-cg@icann.org">internal-cg@icann.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re:
[Internal-cg] Consensus building process<br>
</div>
<div><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);">Just so I’m clear…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);">Looking ahead….if we end up with 29 ICG reps in
favor of a final recommendation and one person who
unreasonably refuses to compromise, will that be
deemed “consensus” or “no consensus?”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);">Hypothetically speaking, if one holdout among
us can obstruct a decision that has received support
from all other members, and would prevent delivery of
a recommendation….I find that very troubling.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);">Keith<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif;">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org">internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>WUKnoben<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 14, 2014 1:47 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kavouss Arasteh<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Coordination Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Internal-cg] Consensus
building process<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">Dear
Kavouss,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">you make the
same point I expressed by saying that “I’m still
uncertain with “non-substantive” issues which
level of substance may depend on different
views”. I would welcome you providing other more
useful criteria to decide in which rare cases a
“poll” or “voting” could apply.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color:
black;">As you may have seen in my latest draft
I removed the “adjectives” from consensus. So I
would appreciate your written suggestion for an
acceptable text that I could better understand
your disagreement with the present proposal.<br>
<br>
Best regards<br>
<br>
Wolf-Ulrich<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;
color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com"
title="kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com">Kavouss
Arasteh</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;">Sent:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;">
Thursday, August 14, 2014 7:22 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;">To:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:wolf-ulrich.knoben@t-online.de"
title="wolf-ulrich.knoben@t-online.de">
WUKnoben</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;">Cc:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu"
title="mueller@syr.edu">Milton L Mueller</a>
; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Martin.Boyle@nominet.org.uk"
title="Martin.Boyle@nominet.org.uk">
Martin Boyle</a> ; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:internal-cg@icann.org"
title="internal-cg@icann.org">
Coordination Group</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;">Subject:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma, sans-serif; color: black;"> Re:
[Internal-cg] Consensus building process<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">Dear
All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">I am not
comfortable to any of these measures.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">The more
we discuss and analyze ,the more problem is
created.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">I
strongly disagree to make any discrimination
among the contstituent groups in ICG ,WHEN
IT IS PROPOSED qUOTE<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-GB">"For
substantive issues, at least none of the
“customer groups” (numbers, protocols, gTLDs
or ccTLDs) of the IANA remains strongly
opposed"</span><span style="font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-GB">What
is considered by someone " substantive" may
be considered by others " non substantive,</span><span
style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-GB">NO
ADJECTIVE FOR OPPOSITION .NO ADJECTIVE FOR
SCONSENSUS.</span><span style="font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-GB">If
you want instead of making progress to draft
another chatter or convention for decision
making ,I disagree with that .</span><span
style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-GB">It
ios incumbent to the chair and the two vice
chairs to make utmost efforts to build
consensus-</span><span style="font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-GB">Pls
end this discussion</span><span
style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-GB">Regards</span><span
style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-GB">Kavouss
</span><span style="font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;
color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">2014-08-14
18:32 GMT+02:00 WUKnoben <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:wolf-ulrich.knoben@t-online.de"
target="_blank">wolf-ulrich.knoben@t-online.de</a>>:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: black;">Thanks
all for your valuable input.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: black;">Milton is
right calling for verbal clarity.
But differentation is also needed
and there are different approaches
to achieve it. And as I said before
the suggestion so far was based on
GNSO habit.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: black;">I tried
to accomodate the discussion and
therefore suggest to differentiate
between “recommendation by
consensus” (highest level, 100%) and
“recommendation” (all remaining
discussion results leading to a
recommendation).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: black;">I agree
to all basic principles Martin came
up with and incorporated them.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: black;">I’m still
uncertain with “non-substantive”
issues which level of substance may
depend on different views.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: black;">I would
appreciate further fruitful
discussion on the list and we will
hopefully see an end at our call
next week.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: black;">See my
edits attached.<br>
<br>
Best regards<br>
<br>
Wolf-Ulrich<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;
color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif; color: black;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif; color: black;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu"
target="_blank"
title="mueller@syr.edu">Milton
L Mueller</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif; color: black;">Sent:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif; color: black;">
Tuesday, August 12, 2014 8:12
PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif; color: black;">To:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif; color: black;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Martin.Boyle@nominet.org.uk"
target="_blank"
title="Martin.Boyle@nominet.org.uk">
'Martin Boyle'</a> ; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:internal-cg@icann.org"
target="_blank"
title="internal-cg@icann.org">
Coordination Group</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif; color:
black;">Subject:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif; color: black;">
Re: [Internal-cg]
Consensus building process<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);">I think Martin makes
very good points here.
</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);">I like his proposed
principles, every one of them.
</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);">I must confess that I
have been wincing at the way
the word “consensus” is
(ab)used routinely in these
circles. Either it is truly
consensus, and everyone either
agrees or agrees not to
object, or it is _something
else_. Will we please stop
trying to apply the term
“consensus” to supermajority
voting processes? My academic
commitment to verbal clarity
and directness is screaming at
me that this is wrong.</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);">The IETF concept of
“rough” consensus is an
informal mechanism that is
suitable for a more
homogeneous environment in
which adherence to standards
is voluntary anyway, but in an
environment with binding
outcomes and political
factions, it can and, in the
ICANN context, frequently HAS
merely provided a
rationalization for ignoring
significant minority points of
view. </span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);">--MM</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div
style="border:none;border-left:solid
windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in
0in 4.0pt">
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:
10pt; font-family:
Tahoma, sans-serif;
color: black;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif; color:
black;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Martin
Boyle<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday,
August 12, 2014 1:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Coordination
Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re:
[Internal-cg] Consensus
building process</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);" lang="EN-GB">Hi
All,</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);" lang="EN-GB">First
thanks to Wolf-Ulrich for
his paper. I greatly like
the idea of standards of
good behaviour and mutual
respect – and I’m pleased to
see that this is already
very much the framework for
the way that the ICG works.
I’d also note that the
analysis of shades of grey
in levels of support is
interesting – was it Patrik
who first noted the two
extremes (non-substantial
and substantial issues) and
the level of consensus that
might be needed? I’m just
not sure I know how to use
them…</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);" lang="EN-GB">I’d
firmly endorse the aim that
“the ICG … reach at least
Consensus on the Proposal
for the IANA Stewardship
Transition to be forwarded
to the NTIA” subject to our
continued effort to try to
achieve full/unanimous
consensus or (at least) to
have addressed address
points of concern.</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);" lang="EN-GB">However,
I do not like processes that
are supposed to be by
consensus being resolved by
voting (cf WCIT): voting
leaves winners and losers.
It also means that people
get lazy and fail to look
for compromise or common
ground or ways to address
“reasonable” concerns. That
aversion is not really
addressed by
supermajorities: even at an
80% supermajority, all the
domain name registries or
all the government
representatives or all GNSO
members could be overruled.
At 85% all the ccTLD
registries, at 90% all the
gTLD registries could be
ignored.</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);" lang="EN-GB">I do
recognise the need for a
mechanism that allows us to
come to a final
recommendation and I’m
afraid that I do not see any
magic wand. But I would
suggest a number of basic
principles:</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.25in"><span
style="font-size: 11pt;
color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"
lang="EN-GB">·</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-GB">
</span><span style="font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);" lang="EN-GB">The
aim of the discussion should
be to try to find a solution
where *<b>no member of the
ICG still maintains
serious opposition to the
outcome.</b>* Reasons for
objections should be given,
allowing the ICG wherever
possible to try to address
those concerns.</span><span
style="font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.25in"><span
style="font-size: 11pt;
color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"
lang="EN-GB">·</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-GB">
</span><span style="font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);" lang="EN-GB">*<b>Recourse
to any form of voting
should be the exception.</b>*
Its use might be fine for
non-substantive issues. For
substantive issues, at least
none of the “customer
groups” (numbers, protocols,
gTLDs or ccTLDs) of the IANA
remains strongly opposed.</span><span
style="font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.25in"><span
style="font-size: 11pt;
color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"
lang="EN-GB">·</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-GB">
</span><span style="font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);" lang="EN-GB">Group
members who still have
problems with the evaluation
should be invited to *<b>identify
possible ways in which the
proposal could be modified
to make it acceptable to
them.</b>*</span><span
style="font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.25in"><span
style="font-size: 11pt;
color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"
lang="EN-GB">·</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-GB">
</span><span style="font-size:
11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);" lang="EN-GB">Discussions
should continue until *<b>no
“IANA customer” group is
firmly opposed.</b>*
</span><span
style="font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);" lang="EN-GB">One
final point: I would be
willing to allow anyone who
feels that they have not
been heard to put a minority
view into the final report.
I’d rather that did not
happen, but if the views are
strong enough, it would be
best to have then documented
in the report than to be
first aired in the
discussion that follows the
publication of our final
report.</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);" lang="EN-GB">Cheers</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);" lang="EN-GB">Martin</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif; color:
black;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif; color: black;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank">internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kavouss
Arasteh<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 11 August
2014 20:48<br>
<b>To:</b> Drazek, Keith<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Coordination
Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re:
[Internal-cg] Consensus
building process</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black"
lang="EN-GB">Dear All,</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black"
lang="EN-GB">Undoubtedly,
it would be super
majority either 2/3 or
4/5 .</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black"
lang="EN-GB">Kavouss
</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black"
lang="EN-GB">2014-08-11
18:18 GMT+02:00 Drazek,
Keith <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kdrazek@verisign.com" target="_blank">kdrazek@verisign.com</a>>:</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black"
lang="EN-GB">I agree
that we will need a
clear process for
determining consensus
that falls somewhere on
the spectrum between
humming and requiring a
unanimous vote.<br>
<br>
If we get in to
discussions of voting,
we'll also need to
address the thresholds
required to establish
consensus. Is it a
simple majority?
Super-majority?
Unanimous voting is an
unhelpful requirement
that would likely
obstruct our work and
our ability to deliver,
so I believe that should
be a non-starter for the
ICG. We need to avoid
the possibility of one
dissenting vote
undermining an otherwise
strongly supported
recommendation that
represents broad
community consensus.<br>
<br>
However, if/when there
is not full consensus,
it will be important
that we have a mechanism
for expressing
dissenting opinions. The
GNSO Registries
Stakeholder Group
employs a "minority
statement" mechanism to
allow for all views to
be expressed when there
is consensus but not
unanimity on a
particular topic.
Perhaps we should
consider a similar
mechanism for the ICG.<br>
</span><span
style="color:#888888"
lang="EN-GB"><br>
Keith</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:black"
lang="EN-GB"><br>
-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
On Behalf Of
Subrenat,
Jean-Jacques<br>
Sent: Monday, August
11, 2014 6:09 AM<br>
To: Kavouss Arasteh<br>
Cc: Coordination
Group<br>
Subject: Re:
[Internal-cg]
Consensus building
process<br>
<br>
Hello Colleagues,<br>
<br>
From the experience
of the past few
weeks, unfortunately
we can conclude that
the current process
is not successful.
Rather than meting
out blame or praise,
we need to
understand why it's
not working. Group
dynamics and a bit
of sociology can
help.<br>
<br>
Our Coordination
Group is different
from what some of
us/you have come to
consider as
"normal". The
technical bodies
(IETF, IAB) have
developed an
efficient process
where "rough
consensus" is
understood and
accepted. But other
components of the
ICG have different
habits, and also a
different
accountability
mechanism: however
attractive "rough"
may be, it is
insufficient. For
example, the GAC has
its own rules (a
joint position can
only be reached by
unanimity), and the
ALAC routinely
conducts all its
votes on a
full-membership
basis (each member
has to say ay, nay,
abstain, or be noted
down as not having
cast a vote).<br>
<br>
So the challenge is
this: is the "rough
consensus" really
adapted to all the
needs of our group?
With the experience
gained collectively
in London, and
especially since
then, I would
recommend a dual
approach:<br>
<br>
A/ MATTERS REQUIRING
ALL MEMBERS TO VOTE
(typically, to be
decided as soon as
possible, with the
exception of our
Transition plan)<br>
- Chair structure
and membership,<br>
- Charter of the
ICG,<br>
- choice of
Secretariat (ICANN
or outside of ICANN,
or a mixture of
both),<br>
- choice of
near-final drafts
and approval of
final draft of our
Transition plan,
before presentation
to the NTIA.<br>
<br>
B/ MATTERS WHERE
OTHER FORMS OF
DECISION-MAKING ARE
ACCEPTABLE<br>
- Appraisal of
specific community
input, as a
contribution to the
ICG's recommended
plan (e.g. ALAC
should appraise
input from its own
community before
submitting it to the
whole ICG),<br>
- external
relations and
communications of
the ICG (once the
Chair structure has
been chosen and
populated, it may
wish to ask Chair,
or another of its
members, to be the
point of contact),<br>
- administrative
& logistic
matters, in
conjunction with the
chosen Secretariat
(here too,
delegation would be
possible).<br>
<br>
I'm prepared to
provide a more
detailed proposal
for the above items.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Jean-Jacques.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
----- Mail original
-----<br>
De: "Kavouss
Arasteh" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" target="_blank">kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a>><br>
À: "Patrik
Fältström" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:paf@frobbit.se" target="_blank">paf@frobbit.se</a>><br>
Cc: "Coordination
Group" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:internal-cg@icann.org" target="_blank">internal-cg@icann.org</a>><br>
Envoyé: Lundi 11
Août 2014 10:40:08<br>
Objet: Re:
[Internal-cg]
Consensus building
process<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Dear Wolf<br>
Thank you very much
for reply<br>
My point is that if
one or more ICG
Mmember(s) is7are
againszt the ruling
of the Chir ,They
could raise their
issue and the matter
must be settled by
simple explanation
or if not resolved
by voting . I.E.
CHAIR DOES NOT HAVE
DECISION MAKING
POWER ON HE OR HIS
OWN WISHES RATHER TO
TAKE INTO ACCOUNT
VIEWS OF MEMBERS
Regards KAVOUSS
Regards<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
2014-08-11 8:33
GMT+02:00 Patrik
Fältström < <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:paf@frobbit.se" target="_blank">
paf@frobbit.se</a>
> :<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 11 aug 2014, at
08:09, WUKnoben <
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:wolf-ulrich.knoben@t-online.de" target="_blank">
wolf-ulrich.knoben@t-online.de</a> > wrote:<br>
<br>
> The chair’s
designation that
consensus is reached
is not her/his own
decision rather than
a wrap-up of
extensive
discussions. Of
course this
designation can be
challenged by
members. And this is
what triggers your
question about “If
several participants
in the ICG disagree
with the designation
given ...”. I’m open
to any helpful
suggestion on how we
could procede in
such a case.<br>
> In the end
consensus - as
defined – has to be
achieved.<br>
<br>
Let me emphasize
what you say here,
which I strongly
agree with.<br>
<br>
We must deliver.<br>
<br>
This implies we must
be able to reach
consensus.<br>
<br>
The last couple of
weeks discussions on
various topics makes
me a bit pessimistic
on the ability for
us to reach
consensus, but I am
optimistic, always
optimistic, on
peoples ability and
interest in actually
deliver.<br>
<br>
Remember that the
chair is calling on
the consensus
question, not the
substance. That way
the power of the
chair is decreased
to a minimum and
process issues.<br>
<br>
Patrik<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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target="_blank">Internal-cg@icann.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg"
target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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_______________________________________________<br>
Internal-cg mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Internal-cg@icann.org">Internal-cg@icann.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg"
target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Internal-cg mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Internal-cg@icann.org">Internal-cg@icann.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg</a>
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