<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
yes. Thanks.<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/15/2014 12:25 PM, Martin Boyle
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:4ED5D5CBDF5F3E499DB990B095F010FE8184B233@wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered
medium)">
<!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]-->
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0cm;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0cm;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
color:black;}
p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black;}
p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph
{mso-style-priority:34;
margin-top:0cm;
margin-right:0cm;
margin-bottom:0cm;
margin-left:36.0pt;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black;}
span.BalloonTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text";
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
span.EmailStyle21
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle22
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;
color:black;}
span.EmailStyle25
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
{mso-list-id:483393705;
mso-list-type:hybrid;
mso-list-template-ids:-1174244428 -1940896070 134807555 134807557 134807553 134807555 134807557 134807553 134807555 134807557;}
@list l0:level1
{mso-level-start-at:0;
mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:"&\#61623";
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:18.0pt;
text-indent:-18.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;
mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
@list l0:level2
{mso-level-tab-stop:72.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l0:level3
{mso-level-tab-stop:108.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l0:level4
{mso-level-tab-stop:144.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l0:level5
{mso-level-tab-stop:180.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l0:level6
{mso-level-tab-stop:216.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l0:level7
{mso-level-tab-stop:252.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l0:level8
{mso-level-tab-stop:288.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l0:level9
{mso-level-tab-stop:324.0pt;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l1
{mso-list-id:1168909777;
mso-list-type:hybrid;
mso-list-template-ids:1685333456 67698705 67698713 67698715 67698703 67698713 67698715 67698703 67698713 67698715;}
@list l1:level1
{mso-level-text:"%1\)";
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l1:level2
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l1:level3
{mso-level-number-format:roman-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:right;
text-indent:-9.0pt;}
@list l1:level4
{mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l1:level5
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l1:level6
{mso-level-number-format:roman-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:right;
text-indent:-9.0pt;}
@list l1:level7
{mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l1:level8
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-18.0pt;}
@list l1:level9
{mso-level-number-format:roman-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:right;
text-indent:-9.0pt;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0cm;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0cm;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi
Joe,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Yes,
you are right. I thought my principle 3 was enough to
resolve this: essentially there is an obligation on any
party opposing (blocking) consensus to explain their
concerns to allow those concerns to be addressed.
Essentially this allows the issues to be addressed head on
and resolved. On the other hand, overruling a maintained
and solid objection would just lead to that coming back
again later in the process.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">It
works for the hold-out case that Keith flags. For the
substantive cases, though, the only defence I can see for a
legitimate objection to be ignored through weigh of numbers
is to allow that point to be specifically addressed in the
final report (and I really am just talking about the final
proposal and the process for getting there to be the only
substantive issue we have).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If
Wolf-Ulrich were to add to the end of principle 3, “If these
concerns are not met in the final proposal, the opposing
party should be invited to present the dissenting views in a
written submission to the report.”, would this work?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Martin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org">internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>joseph alhadeff<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 14 August 2014 20:20<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:internal-cg@icann.org">internal-cg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Internal-cg] Consensus building
process<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Milton:<br>
<br>
I agree with the first bullet points, but have reservations on
the last. I agree that no customer stakeholder objection
related to the proposal can exist and still have a consensus,
but I also think that we cannot have a consensus if a number
of the non-customer stakeholders object.<br>
<br>
Best-<br>
<br>
Joe<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 8/14/2014 2:49 PM, Milton L Mueller
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Keith</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">On
the “holdout” problem, I think Martin’s principles
addressed your concerns. To reproduce them here:
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo2">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-family:Symbol"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">&#61623<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
aim of the discussion should be to try to find a solution
where *<b>no member of the ICG still maintains serious
opposition to the outcome.</b>* Reasons for objections
should be given, allowing the ICG wherever possible to try
to address those concerns.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo2">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-family:Symbol"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">&#61623<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">*<b>Recourse
to any form of voting should be the exception.</b>* Its
use might be fine for non-substantive issues. For
substantive issues, at least none of the “customer groups”
(numbers, protocols, gTLDs or ccTLDs) of the IANA remains
strongly opposed.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo2">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-family:Symbol"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">&#61623<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Group
members who still have problems with the evaluation should
be invited to *<b>identify possible ways in which the
proposal could be modified to make it acceptable to
them.</b>*</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo2">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-family:Symbol"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">&#61623<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Discussions
should continue until *<b>no “IANA customer” group is
firmly opposed.</b>*
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Note
these two things:
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">1)<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If
there really is no consensus (and that DOES mean no one
objects, even if they don’t fully agree) then we are
reverting to a kind of supermajority voting or decision
rule as outlined in the GNSO rules. Purists like me refuse
to call this “consensus.” It doesn’t mean that we are
“stuck” or blocked, it just means that we really don’t
have something that conforms to the classical meaning of
consensus. I think we should not play verbal games and
call this “consensus.” </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">2)<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">IANA
customer groups (groups, not individuals) have a kind of
special status in Martin’s principles, given their direct
stake in how IANA is managed. Even though I am not
representing a customer group, I think this is fair. If
everyone in a particular customer group cannot live with a
decision, it is certainly not consensus and we probably
shouldn’t force such a decision on them, no matter how
much everyone else supports it. We might extend the same
kind of protection to other groups; e.g., if none of the
user representatives (NCSG and ALAC) agree, it would seem
unreasonable to claim that an outcome has even “rough”
consensus. But if one particular individual within that
user group can’t be swayed, then it should not be
considered the same kind of obstacle to an outcome.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hope
this is clear<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Milton
L Mueller</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Laura
J and L. Douglas Meredith Professor
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Syracuse
University School of Information Studies</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://faculty.ischool.syr.edu/mueller/">http://faculty.ischool.syr.edu/mueller/</a>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org">internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Drazek, Keith<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 14, 2014 2:10 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Coordination Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Internal-cg] Consensus building
process</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Just
so I’m clear…</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Looking
ahead….if we end up with 29 ICG reps in favor of a final
recommendation and one person who unreasonably refuses
to compromise, will that be deemed “consensus” or “no
consensus?”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hypothetically
speaking, if one holdout among us can obstruct a
decision that has received support from all other
members, and would prevent delivery of a
recommendation….I find that very troubling.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Keith</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org">internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>WUKnoben<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 14, 2014 1:47 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kavouss Arasteh<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Coordination Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Internal-cg] Consensus building
process</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Dear
Kavouss,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">you
make the same point I expressed by saying that
“I’m still uncertain with “non-substantive” issues
which level of substance may depend on different
views”. I would welcome you providing other more
useful criteria to decide in which rare cases a
“poll” or “voting” could apply.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">As you
may have seen in my latest draft I removed the
“adjectives” from consensus. So I would appreciate
your written suggestion for an acceptable text
that I could better understand your disagreement
with the present proposal.<br>
<br>
Best regards<br>
<br>
Wolf-Ulrich</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com"
title="kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com">Kavouss
Arasteh</a>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Sent:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
Thursday, August 14, 2014 7:22 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">To:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:wolf-ulrich.knoben@t-online.de"
title="wolf-ulrich.knoben@t-online.de">
WUKnoben</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Cc:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu"
title="mueller@syr.edu">Milton L Mueller</a>
; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Martin.Boyle@nominet.org.uk"
title="Martin.Boyle@nominet.org.uk">
Martin Boyle</a> ; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:internal-cg@icann.org"
title="internal-cg@icann.org">
Coordination Group</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Subject:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
Re: [Internal-cg] Consensus building process</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Dear
All,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I
am not comfortable to any of these measures.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">The
more we discuss and analyze ,the more problem
is created.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I
strongly disagree to make any discrimination
among the contstituent groups in ICG ,WHEN IT
IS PROPOSED qUOTE</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">"For
substantive issues, at least none of the
“customer groups” (numbers, protocols, gTLDs
or ccTLDs) of the IANA remains strongly
opposed"</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">What
is considered by someone " substantive" may be
considered by others " non substantive,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">NO
ADJECTIVE FOR OPPOSITION .NO ADJECTIVE FOR
SCONSENSUS.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If
you want instead of making progress to draft
another chatter or convention for decision
making ,I disagree with that .</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">It
ios incumbent to the chair and the two vice
chairs to make utmost efforts to build
consensus-</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Pls
end this discussion</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Kavouss
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">2014-08-14
18:32 GMT+02:00 WUKnoben <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:wolf-ulrich.knoben@t-online.de"
target="_blank">wolf-ulrich.knoben@t-online.de</a>>:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Thanks
all for your valuable input.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Milton
is right calling for verbal clarity.
But differentation is also needed and
there are different approaches to
achieve it. And as I said before the
suggestion so far was based on GNSO
habit.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I
tried to accomodate the discussion and
therefore suggest to differentiate
between “recommendation by consensus”
(highest level, 100%) and
“recommendation” (all remaining
discussion results leading to a
recommendation).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I
agree to all basic principles Martin
came up with and incorporated them.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I’m
still uncertain with “non-substantive”
issues which level of substance may
depend on different views.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I
would appreciate further fruitful
discussion on the list and we will
hopefully see an end at our call next
week.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">See
my edits attached.<br>
<br>
Best regards<br>
<br>
Wolf-Ulrich</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu"
target="_blank"
title="mueller@syr.edu">Milton
L Mueller</a>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Sent:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
Tuesday, August 12, 2014 8:12 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">To:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Martin.Boyle@nominet.org.uk"
target="_blank"
title="Martin.Boyle@nominet.org.uk">
'Martin Boyle'</a> ; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:internal-cg@icann.org"
target="_blank"
title="internal-cg@icann.org">
Coordination Group</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Subject:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
Re: [Internal-cg] Consensus
building process</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
think Martin makes very good
points here.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
like his proposed principles,
every one of them.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
must confess that I have been
wincing at the way the word
“consensus” is (ab)used
routinely in these circles.
Either it is truly consensus,
and everyone either agrees or
agrees not to object, or it is
_something else_. Will we please
stop trying to apply the term
“consensus” to supermajority
voting processes? My academic
commitment to verbal clarity and
directness is screaming at me
that this is wrong.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
IETF concept of “rough”
consensus is an informal
mechanism that is suitable for a
more homogeneous environment in
which adherence to standards is
voluntary anyway, but in an
environment with binding
outcomes and political factions,
it can and, in the ICANN
context, frequently HAS merely
provided a rationalization for
ignoring significant minority
points of view. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">--MM</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div
style="border:none;border-left:solid
windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm
0cm 4.0pt">
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank">internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Martin
Boyle<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday,
August 12, 2014 1:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Coordination
Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re:
[Internal-cg] Consensus
building process</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi
All,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">First
thanks to Wolf-Ulrich for his
paper. I greatly like the
idea of standards of good
behaviour and mutual respect –
and I’m pleased to see that
this is already very much the
framework for the way that the
ICG works. I’d also note that
the analysis of shades of grey
in levels of support is
interesting – was it Patrik
who first noted the two
extremes (non-substantial and
substantial issues) and the
level of consensus that might
be needed? I’m just not sure
I know how to use them…</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I’d
firmly endorse the aim that
“the ICG … reach at least
Consensus on the Proposal for
the IANA Stewardship
Transition to be forwarded to
the NTIA” subject to our
continued effort to try to
achieve full/unanimous
consensus or (at least) to
have addressed address points
of concern.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">However,
I do not like processes that
are supposed to be by
consensus being resolved by
voting (cf WCIT): voting
leaves winners and losers. It
also means that people get
lazy and fail to look for
compromise or common ground or
ways to address “reasonable”
concerns. That aversion is
not really addressed by
supermajorities: even at an
80% supermajority, all the
domain name registries or all
the government representatives
or all GNSO members could be
overruled. At 85% all the
ccTLD registries, at 90% all
the gTLD registries could be
ignored.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
do recognise the need for a
mechanism that allows us to
come to a final recommendation
and I’m afraid that I do not
see any magic wand. But I
would suggest a number of
basic principles:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:18.0pt"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">
</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
aim of the discussion should
be to try to find a solution
where *<b>no member of the ICG
still maintains serious
opposition to the outcome.</b>*
Reasons for objections should
be given, allowing the ICG
wherever possible to try to
address those concerns.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:18.0pt"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">
</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">*<b>Recourse
to any form of voting should
be the exception.</b>* Its
use might be fine for
non-substantive issues. For
substantive issues, at least
none of the “customer groups”
(numbers, protocols, gTLDs or
ccTLDs) of the IANA remains
strongly opposed.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:18.0pt"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">
</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Group
members who still have
problems with the evaluation
should be invited to *<b>identify
possible ways in which the
proposal could be modified
to make it acceptable to
them.</b>*</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:18.0pt"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D">·</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D">
</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Discussions
should continue until *<b>no
“IANA customer” group is
firmly opposed.</b>*
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">One
final point: I would be
willing to allow anyone who
feels that they have not been
heard to put a minority view
into the final report. I’d
rather that did not happen,
but if the views are strong
enough, it would be best to
have then documented in the
report than to be first aired
in the discussion that follows
the publication of our final
report.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Cheers</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Martin</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm
0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank">internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank">mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kavouss
Arasteh<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 11 August 2014
20:48<br>
<b>To:</b> Drazek, Keith<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Coordination
Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re:
[Internal-cg] Consensus
building process</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Dear
All,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Undoubtedly,
it would be super majority
either 2/3 or 4/5 .<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Kavouss
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">2014-08-11
18:18 GMT+02:00 Drazek,
Keith <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kdrazek@verisign.com"
target="_blank">kdrazek@verisign.com</a>>:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I
agree that we will need a
clear process for
determining consensus that
falls somewhere on the
spectrum between humming and
requiring a unanimous vote.<br>
<br>
If we get in to discussions
of voting, we'll also need
to address the thresholds
required to establish
consensus. Is it a simple
majority? Super-majority?
Unanimous voting is an
unhelpful requirement that
would likely obstruct our
work and our ability to
deliver, so I believe that
should be a non-starter for
the ICG. We need to avoid
the possibility of one
dissenting vote undermining
an otherwise strongly
supported recommendation
that represents broad
community consensus.<br>
<br>
However, if/when there is
not full consensus, it will
be important that we have a
mechanism for expressing
dissenting opinions. The
GNSO Registries Stakeholder
Group employs a "minority
statement" mechanism to
allow for all views to be
expressed when there is
consensus but not unanimity
on a particular topic.
Perhaps we should consider a
similar mechanism for the
ICG.<br>
<span style="color:#888888"><br>
Keith</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Subrenat,
Jean-Jacques<br>
Sent: Monday, August 11,
2014 6:09 AM<br>
To: Kavouss Arasteh<br>
Cc: Coordination Group<br>
Subject: Re:
[Internal-cg] Consensus
building process<br>
<br>
Hello Colleagues,<br>
<br>
From the experience of
the past few weeks,
unfortunately we can
conclude that the
current process is not
successful. Rather than
meting out blame or
praise, we need to
understand why it's not
working. Group dynamics
and a bit of sociology
can help.<br>
<br>
Our Coordination Group
is different from what
some of us/you have come
to consider as "normal".
The technical bodies
(IETF, IAB) have
developed an efficient
process where "rough
consensus" is understood
and accepted. But other
components of the ICG
have different habits,
and also a different
accountability
mechanism: however
attractive "rough" may
be, it is insufficient.
For example, the GAC has
its own rules (a joint
position can only be
reached by unanimity),
and the ALAC routinely
conducts all its votes
on a full-membership
basis (each member has
to say ay, nay, abstain,
or be noted down as not
having cast a vote).<br>
<br>
So the challenge is
this: is the "rough
consensus" really
adapted to all the needs
of our group? With the
experience gained
collectively in London,
and especially since
then, I would recommend
a dual approach:<br>
<br>
A/ MATTERS REQUIRING ALL
MEMBERS TO VOTE
(typically, to be
decided as soon as
possible, with the
exception of our
Transition plan)<br>
- Chair structure and
membership,<br>
- Charter of the ICG,<br>
- choice of
Secretariat (ICANN or
outside of ICANN, or a
mixture of both),<br>
- choice of
near-final drafts and
approval of final draft
of our Transition plan,
before presentation to
the NTIA.<br>
<br>
B/ MATTERS WHERE OTHER
FORMS OF DECISION-MAKING
ARE ACCEPTABLE<br>
- Appraisal of
specific community
input, as a contribution
to the ICG's recommended
plan (e.g. ALAC should
appraise input from its
own community before
submitting it to the
whole ICG),<br>
- external relations
and communications of
the ICG (once the Chair
structure has been
chosen and populated, it
may wish to ask Chair,
or another of its
members, to be the point
of contact),<br>
- administrative
& logistic matters,
in conjunction with the
chosen Secretariat (here
too, delegation would be
possible).<br>
<br>
I'm prepared to provide
a more detailed proposal
for the above items.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Jean-Jacques.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
----- Mail original
-----<br>
De: "Kavouss Arasteh"
<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" target="_blank">kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a>><br>
À: "Patrik Fältström"
<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:paf@frobbit.se" target="_blank">paf@frobbit.se</a>><br>
Cc: "Coordination Group"
<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:internal-cg@icann.org" target="_blank">internal-cg@icann.org</a>><br>
Envoyé: Lundi 11 Août
2014 10:40:08<br>
Objet: Re: [Internal-cg]
Consensus building
process<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Dear Wolf<br>
Thank you very much for
reply<br>
My point is that if one
or more ICG Mmember(s)
is7are againszt the
ruling of the Chir ,They
could raise their issue
and the matter must be
settled by simple
explanation or if not
resolved by voting .
I.E. CHAIR DOES NOT HAVE
DECISION MAKING POWER ON
HE OR HIS OWN WISHES
RATHER TO TAKE INTO
ACCOUNT VIEWS OF MEMBERS
Regards KAVOUSS Regards<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
2014-08-11 8:33
GMT+02:00 Patrik
Fältström < <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:paf@frobbit.se" target="_blank">
paf@frobbit.se</a>
> :<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 11 aug 2014, at
08:09, WUKnoben < <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:wolf-ulrich.knoben@t-online.de" target="_blank">
wolf-ulrich.knoben@t-online.de</a> > wrote:<br>
<br>
> The chair’s
designation that
consensus is reached is
not her/his own decision
rather than a wrap-up of
extensive discussions.
Of course this
designation can be
challenged by members.
And this is what
triggers your question
about “If several
participants in the ICG
disagree with the
designation given ...”.
I’m open to any helpful
suggestion on how we
could procede in such a
case.<br>
> In the end
consensus - as defined –
has to be achieved.<br>
<br>
Let me emphasize what
you say here, which I
strongly agree with.<br>
<br>
We must deliver.<br>
<br>
This implies we must be
able to reach consensus.<br>
<br>
The last couple of weeks
discussions on various
topics makes me a bit
pessimistic on the
ability for us to reach
consensus, but I am
optimistic, always
optimistic, on peoples
ability and interest in
actually deliver.<br>
<br>
Remember that the chair
is calling on the
consensus question, not
the substance. That way
the power of the chair
is decreased to a
minimum and process
issues.<br>
<br>
Patrik<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Internal-cg mailing list<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Internal-cg@icann.org" target="_blank">Internal-cg@icann.org</a><br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Internal-cg mailing list<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Internal-cg@icann.org" target="_blank">Internal-cg@icann.org</a><br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Internal-cg mailing list<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Internal-cg@icann.org" target="_blank">Internal-cg@icann.org</a><br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center" align="center"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<hr size="2" width="100%"
align="center">
</span></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">_______________________________________________<br>
Internal-cg mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Internal-cg@icann.org"
target="_blank">Internal-cg@icann.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg"
target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Internal-cg mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Internal-cg@icann.org">Internal-cg@icann.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg"
target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Internal-cg mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Internal-cg@icann.org">Internal-cg@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>