<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>I look forward to your considered reply.</div><div><br></div><div>Best</div><div><br></div><div>Joe<br><br>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On Sep 13, 2014, at 9:09 AM, Kavouss Arasteh <<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com">kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Joe thanks for the time ,efforts and thoughts</div><div>Aloow me to thniik over and come back to you .Perhaps the combination of both by adding your last to your previous suggestion with" in other words" could be a solution.</div><div>Kavouss </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2014-09-13 14:39 GMT+02:00 joseph alhadeff <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com" target="_blank">joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
Kavous:<br>
<br>
I think it depends on the nature of the concern, that's why t needs
to be on a case by case basis. For example, ICC-Basis as a whole
may have wanted more testing of the proposal, but that may not be
the basis for saying it is not a proposal that should be
considered. I think the operational communities, because of their
role, and if the nature of the objection is operational, have a
different nature of objection...<br>
<br>
Perhaps a better phrasing might be:<br>
<br>
All stakeholder communities have a role in the development of the
broad consensus called for; the nature, scope and breadth of support
of concerns/objections within and across stakeholder communities
will impact the ability of the ICG to submit a proposal that meets
the requirements of the NTIA process. Concerns of an operational
nature form one or more operational community would also
significantly limit the ability of ICG to submit a proposal that
meets the terms of the NTIA requirements.<br>
<br>
This would replace the last sentence.<br>
<br>
Its certainly not exact, but as we have found, precise terms have
been beyond our reach because of the need to properly apply these
principles in context...<br>
<br>
Happy to see if anyone has better words than mine...<br>
<br>
Joe <br><div><div class="h5">
<br>
<br>
<div>On 9/13/2014 7:24 AM, Kavouss Arasteh
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Joe, <br>
</div>
<div>Thank you very much for your attempt to narrow down the
exting divergence.</div>
<div>In the last sentence of added bullet </div>
<div>Quote</div>
<div><strong>While consensus of all stakeholder communities is
the objective, it seems clear from the NTIA requirements,
that the objection of an operational community would
significantly limit the ability of the ICG to submit an
acceptable consensus proposal. "</strong></div>
<div><strong>Unquote</strong></div>
<div>Please kindly clarify the situation in theexample given by
Martin in which IF all 5 GAC members or ALAC +ICC-BASIS
object to a case Under consideration </div>
<div>a) Does that objection significantly limit the ability of
the ICG to submit an acceptable consensus proposal. " </div>
<div>b) To which of the 3 operational Communities ( names,
numbers and protocol parameter ) GAC or ALAC +ICC-BASIS could
be associated .</div>
<div>In general ,your added text further clarify the matter .I
am comfortable that you have maintained the concept of case by
case .</div>
<div>Awating your kind clarification </div>
<div>Kavouss </div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2014-09-13 12:32 GMT+02:00 joseph
alhadeff <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com" target="_blank">joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote">
<div> Colleagues:<br>
<br>
In an attempt to find a middle ground, I have attempted to
address a number of the issues through small edits. for
small minority, I have tried blending a number of the
concepts into a new paragraph.
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span>·<span> </span></span></span><b><span>Determinations
of consensus do not fit into a formula and the
concept of what is a small minority will need to be
determined on a case-by-case basis.<span> </span>Factors
of determination may include the nature and
seriousness of the objection, the scope of support
for the objection – whole stakeholder community(ies)
or a subset of a or a number of communiites and the
attemps that have been made to resolve those
concerns/objections.<span> </span>While consensus
of all stakeholder communities is the objective, it
seems clear from the NTIA requirements, that the
objection of an operational community would
significantly limit the ability of the ICG to submit
an acceptable consensus proposal. </span></b></p>
<b><span><br>
</span></b>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span> </span></b></p>
<br>
Other issues include a clarification of subject matter
decisions (we do make decisions as to sufficiency of
subject matter to meet NTIA requirement or the lack of
consensus on an issue, that is beyond assembling, what we
don't do is redraft the proposal), as well as Martin's
question related to why polling...<br>
<br>
Hope these help.<br>
<br>
Joe <br>
<div>
<div> <br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 9/12/2014 8:15 AM, Martin Boyle wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Thank you Kavouss. As
requested, I have made specific drafting
suggestions on the latest draft in drop box
(although there was also a suggestion from Joe
in a separate drafting thread where I have a
slightly different line from him). I have
left the comments in place as I think it is
important that colleagues understand why I
have concerns.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I have not tried to
change the filename: as Alissa pointed out in
her mail, this should wait for a new clean
draft to avoid causing confusion.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Cheers</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Martin</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> Kavouss Arasteh [<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" target="_blank">mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 11 September 2014 21:34<br>
<b>To:</b> Martin Boyle<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Alissa Cooper; Coordination Group<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Internal-cg] Consensus
building discussion</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p><span lang="EN-US">Martin</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">I agree with most of the
things that you said.</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">However, it might be
useful that you suggest a revision marked
text and move all of your comments to the
covering.</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">It seems that at least I
have sympathy for many of your thoughts
but prefer to see your text possibly not
coming back to square one. No one believes
that anyone else should be excluded. A
team work means everybody should be given
the opportunity to comment.</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">What bothers me is that
some people want to restrict the process
to only three operational communities
.While we agree that their interest should
be met but we want to give opportunity to
others </span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">I am happy that you also
agree to maintain the case by
case approach.</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">Waiting your editorial
and other sort of amendment in a revision
mark approach not introducing square
bracket and comments in the margin</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">SUGGEST CONCRETE
AMENDMENTS and give the name to the file
as you wish</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">However, I wish to
reiterate that I would have serious
difficulties if one focus on a particular
case or particular community or the
language and approach used by a particular
community</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">We need to be general
and cover every body's case </span></p>
<p><span>Regards</span></p>
<p><span>Kavouss </span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
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<span>
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