<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div style="" class=""><span style="" class="">Dear All, <br style=""></span></div><div class="yui_3_16_0_6_1410695241540_98" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px; font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span style="" class="">I wish to thank all for the much progress made on the difficult topic and work of the ICG.</span></div><div class="yui_3_16_0_6_1410695241540_98" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px; font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br><span style="" class=""></span><span style="" class=""></span></div><div class="yui_3_16_0_6_1410695241540_98" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px; font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">I
have uploaded to the drop box Draft 12 building on what others have done with a few comments and minor edits. (See NIRA TECH comments).<br></div><div class="yui_3_16_0_6_1410695241540_98" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px; font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div class="yui_3_16_0_6_1410695241540_98" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px; font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">The most difficult part for me is the voting aspect as majority will always prevail in any poll. Small but significant minority may be ignored or overruled with voting. <br></div><div class="yui_3_16_0_6_1410695241540_98" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px; font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">Any voting in the section dealing with Recommendation may
negate our work and will not produce the desired and acceptable proposal to NTIA, again the expectation of a broad consensus of the communities will be wanting in the final report. <br></div><div class="yui_3_16_0_6_1410695241540_98" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px; font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">It would be helpful if the paragraph 4(c)(iv) is rephrased or deleted. I did not provide any language though, but will be willing to do so on the 17th if need be, or any other member can help out here and suggest a language to replace it.</div><div class="yui_3_16_0_6_1410695241540_98" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px; font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div>What we need is TRUST+COMPROMISES which will result into CONSENSUS. .<br><br>BR<br>Mary
Uduma<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><div class="yui_3_16_0_6_1410695241540_98" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px; font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div class="yui_3_16_0_6_1410695241540_98" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px; font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px; font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div class="" style="margin-top:.35pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
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style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px; font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br style="" class=""></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px; font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"> <br style="" class=""><span style="" class=""></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px; font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span style="" class=""><br style="" class=""></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px; font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br style="" class=""><span style="" class=""></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px; font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span style=""
class=""><br style="" class=""></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px; font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span style="" class=""><br style="" class=""></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px; font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br style="" class=""><span style="" class=""></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px; font-family: verdana,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span style="" class=""><br style="" class=""></span></div> <div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div style="display: block;" class="yahoo_quoted"> <div style="font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div
style="" class="" dir="ltr"> <font style="" class="" size="2" face="Arial"> On Saturday, September 13, 2014 5:41 PM, Joseph Alhadeff <joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com> wrote:<br style="" class=""> </font> </div> <br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""> <div style="" class=""><div style="" class="" id="yiv8314436090"><div style="" class=""><div style="" class="">I look forward to your considered reply.</div><div style="" class=""><br style="" class="" clear="none"></div><div style="" class="">Best</div><div style="" class=""><br style="" class="" clear="none"></div><div style="" class="">Joe<br style="" class="" clear="none"><br style="" class="" clear="none">Sent from my iPad</div><div style="" class="" id="yiv8314436090yqt57802"><div style="" class=""><br style="" class="" clear="none">On Sep 13, 2014, at 9:09 AM, Kavouss Arasteh <<a style="" class="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" target="_blank"
href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com">kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br style="" class="" clear="none"><br style="" class="" clear="none"></div><blockquote style="" class="" type="cite"><div style="" class=""><div style="" class="" dir="ltr"><div style="" class="">Joe thanks for the time ,efforts and thoughts</div><div style="" class="">Aloow me to thniik over and come back to you .Perhaps the combination of both by adding your last to your previous suggestion with" in other words" could be a solution.</div><div style="" class="">Kavouss </div></div><div style="" class=""><br style="" class="" clear="none"><div style="" class="">2014-09-13 14:39 GMT+02:00 joseph alhadeff <span style="" class="" dir="ltr"><<a style="" class="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com">joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com</a>></span>:<br style="" class=""
clear="none"><blockquote class="" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div style="" class="">
Kavous:<br style="" class="" clear="none">
<br style="" class="" clear="none">
I think it depends on the nature of the concern, that's why t needs
to be on a case by case basis. For example, ICC-Basis as a whole
may have wanted more testing of the proposal, but that may not be
the basis for saying it is not a proposal that should be
considered. I think the operational communities, because of their
role, and if the nature of the objection is operational, have a
different nature of objection...<br style="" class="" clear="none">
<br style="" class="" clear="none">
Perhaps a better phrasing might be:<br style="" class="" clear="none">
<br style="" class="" clear="none">
All stakeholder communities have a role in the development of the
broad consensus called for; the nature, scope and breadth of support
of concerns/objections within and across stakeholder communities
will impact the ability of the ICG to submit a proposal that meets
the requirements of the NTIA process. Concerns of an operational
nature form one or more operational community would also
significantly limit the ability of ICG to submit a proposal that
meets the terms of the NTIA requirements.<br style="" class="" clear="none">
<br style="" class="" clear="none">
This would replace the last sentence.<br style="" class="" clear="none">
<br style="" class="" clear="none">
Its certainly not exact, but as we have found, precise terms have
been beyond our reach because of the need to properly apply these
principles in context...<br style="" class="" clear="none">
<br style="" class="" clear="none">
Happy to see if anyone has better words than mine...<br style="" class="" clear="none">
<br style="" class="" clear="none">
Joe <br style="" class="" clear="none"><div style="" class=""><div style="" class="">
<br style="" class="" clear="none">
<br style="" class="" clear="none">
<div style="" class="">On 9/13/2014 7:24 AM, Kavouss Arasteh
wrote:<br style="" class="" clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote style="" class="" type="cite">
<div style="" class="" dir="ltr">
<div style="" class="">Joe, <br style="" class="" clear="none">
</div>
<div style="" class="">Thank you very much for your attempt to narrow down the
exting divergence.</div>
<div style="" class="">In the last sentence of added bullet </div>
<div style="" class="">Quote</div>
<div style="" class=""><b style="" class="">While consensus of all stakeholder communities is
the objective, it seems clear from the NTIA requirements,
that the objection of an operational community would
significantly limit the ability of the ICG to submit an
acceptable consensus proposal. "</b></div>
<div style="" class=""><b style="" class="">Unquote</b></div>
<div style="" class="">Please kindly clarify the situation in theexample given by
Martin in which IF all 5 GAC members or ALAC +ICC-BASIS
object to a case Under consideration </div>
<div style="" class="">a) Does that objection significantly limit the ability of
the ICG to submit an acceptable consensus proposal. " </div>
<div style="" class="">b) To which of the 3 operational Communities ( names,
numbers and protocol parameter ) GAC or ALAC +ICC-BASIS could
be associated .</div>
<div style="" class="">In general ,your added text further clarify the matter .I
am comfortable that you have maintained the concept of case by
case .</div>
<div style="" class="">Awating your kind clarification </div>
<div style="" class="">Kavouss </div>
</div>
<div style="" class=""><br style="" class="" clear="none">
<div style="" class="">2014-09-13 12:32 GMT+02:00 joseph
alhadeff <span style="" class="" dir="ltr"><<a style="" class="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com">joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com</a>></span>:<br style="" class="" clear="none">
<blockquote style="" class="">
<div style="" class=""> Colleagues:<br style="" class="" clear="none">
<br style="" class="" clear="none">
In an attempt to find a middle ground, I have attempted to
address a number of the issues through small edits. for
small minority, I have tried blending a number of the
concepts into a new paragraph.
<div style="" class=""><span style="" class=""><span style="" class="">·<span style="" class=""> </span></span></span><b style="" class=""><span style="" class="">Determinations
of consensus do not fit into a formula and the
concept of what is a small minority will need to be
determined on a case-by-case basis.<span style="" class=""> </span>Factors
of determination may include the nature and
seriousness of the objection, the scope of support
for the objection – whole stakeholder community(ies)
or a subset of a or a number of communiites and the
attemps that have been made to resolve those
concerns/objections.<span style="" class=""> </span>While consensus
of all stakeholder communities is the objective, it
seems clear from the NTIA requirements, that the
objection of an operational community would
significantly limit the ability of the ICG to submit
an acceptable consensus proposal. </span></b></div>
<b style="" class=""><span style="" class=""><br style="" class="" clear="none">
</span></b>
<div style="" class=""><b style="" class=""><span style="" class=""> </span></b></div>
<br style="" class="" clear="none">
Other issues include a clarification of subject matter
decisions (we do make decisions as to sufficiency of
subject matter to meet NTIA requirement or the lack of
consensus on an issue, that is beyond assembling, what we
don't do is redraft the proposal), as well as Martin's
question related to why polling...<br style="" class="" clear="none">
<br style="" class="" clear="none">
Hope these help.<br style="" class="" clear="none">
<br style="" class="" clear="none">
Joe <br style="" class="" clear="none">
<div style="" class="">
<div style="" class=""> <br style="" class="" clear="none">
<br style="" class="" clear="none">
<br style="" class="" clear="none">
<div style="" class="">On 9/12/2014 8:15 AM, Martin Boyle wrote:<br style="" class="" clear="none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="" class="" type="cite">
<div style="" class="">
<div style="" class="">
<div style="" class="">
<div style="" class=""><span style="" class="">Thank you Kavouss. As
requested, I have made specific drafting
suggestions on the latest draft in drop box
(although there was also a suggestion from Joe
in a separate drafting thread where I have a
slightly different line from him). I have
left the comments in place as I think it is
important that colleagues understand why I
have concerns.</span></div>
<div style="" class=""><span style="" class=""> </span></div>
<div style="" class=""><span style="" class="">I have not tried to
change the filename: as Alissa pointed out in
her mail, this should wait for a new clean
draft to avoid causing confusion.</span></div>
<div style="" class=""><span style="" class=""> </span></div>
<div style="" class=""><span style="" class="">Cheers</span></div>
<div style="" class=""><span style="" class=""> </span></div>
<div style="" class=""><span style="" class="">Martin</span></div>
<div style="" class=""><span style="" class=""> </span></div>
<div style="" class=""><span style="" class=""> </span></div>
<div style="" class=""><span style="" class=""> </span></div>
<div style="" class="">
<div style="" class=""><b style="" class=""><span style="" class="" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="" class="" lang="EN-US"> Kavouss Arasteh [<a style="" class="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com">mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a>]
<br style="" class="" clear="none">
<b style="" class="">Sent:</b> 11 September 2014 21:34<br style="" class="" clear="none">
<b style="" class="">To:</b> Martin Boyle<br style="" class="" clear="none">
<b style="" class="">Cc:</b> Alissa Cooper; Coordination Group<br style="" class="" clear="none">
<b style="" class="">Subject:</b> Re: [Internal-cg] Consensus
building discussion</span></div>
</div>
<div style="" class=""> </div>
<div style="" class="">
<div style="" class="">
<div style="" class=""><span style="" class="" lang="EN-US">Martin</span></div>
<div style="" class=""><span style="" class="" lang="EN-US">I agree with most of the
things that you said.</span></div>
<div style="" class=""><span style="" class="" lang="EN-US">However, it might be
useful that you suggest a revision marked
text and move all of your comments to the
covering.</span></div>
<div style="" class=""><span style="" class="" lang="EN-US">It seems that at least I
have sympathy for many of your thoughts
but prefer to see your text possibly not
coming back to square one. No one believes
that anyone else should be excluded. A
team work means everybody should be given
the opportunity to comment.</span></div>
<div style="" class=""><span style="" class="" lang="EN-US">What bothers me is that
some people want to restrict the process
to only three operational communities
.While we agree that their interest should
be met but we want to give opportunity to
others </span></div>
<div style="" class=""><span style="" class="" lang="EN-US">I am happy that you also
agree to maintain the case by
case approach.</span></div>
<div style="" class=""><span style="" class="" lang="EN-US">Waiting your editorial
and other sort of amendment in a revision
mark approach not introducing square
bracket and comments in the margin</span></div>
<div style="" class=""><span style="" class="" lang="EN-US">SUGGEST CONCRETE
AMENDMENTS and give the name to the file
as you wish</span></div>
<div style="" class=""><span style="" class="" lang="EN-US">However, I wish to
reiterate that I would have serious
difficulties if one focus on a particular
case or particular community or the
language and approach used by a particular
community</span></div>
<div style="" class=""><span style="" class="" lang="EN-US">We need to be general
and cover every body's case </span></div>
<div style="" class=""><span style="" class="">Regards</span></div>
<div style="" class=""><span style="" class="">Kavouss </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="" class="">
<div style="" class=""> </div>
</div>
</div>
<br style="" class="" clear="none">
<fieldset style="" class=""></fieldset>
<br style="" class="" clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<span style="" class="">
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