<div dir="ltr"><div>Dear Martin,</div><div>Dear Joe</div><div>Deal Alissa</div><div>I agreed to a greater extent to your suggestions and edits d</div><div>Martin made also good edits but wanted more time to include some of my suggestions but  stopped on Friday evening sending auto reply</div><div>Joe sent compromise to which I agreed as he combined three suggestions</div><div>I made comments awaiting his reply</div><div>I have not heard from  any of you since two/three  days ago</div><div>Please Martin or Joe or Alissa kindly put your thought together and possibly one take the initiative to include all amendments and comments</div><div>However, we have no time to include new ideas or have a new draft</div><div>WAITING FOR YOU KIND ACTION</div><div>Regards</div><div>Kavouss </div><div><br></div><div>I agreed ,in general sense to both Mating and Joe </div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2014-09-15 12:18 GMT+02:00 joseph alhadeff <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com" target="_blank">joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com</a>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    Mary:<br>
    <br>
    I don&#39;t think the intent of the poll is to make a decision but more
    to get a sense of the members when it may not be clear from postings
    (recall that not all members may have shared opinions and with
    multiple drafts of language the current status of opinion may not be
    clear) ...  Perhaps we could clarify language in that direction to
    address your concerns?<br>
    <br>
    Joe<div><div class="h5"><br>
    <div>On 9/14/2014 6:12 PM, Mary Uduma wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      
      <div>
        <div><span>Dear All, <br>
          </span></div>
        <div><span>I wish
            to thank all for the much progress made on the difficult
            topic and work of the ICG.</span></div>
        <div><br>
          <span></span><span></span></div>
        <div>I have uploaded to
          the drop box Draft 12 building on what others have done  with
          a few comments and minor edits.  (See NIRA TECH comments).<br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>The most difficult
          part for me is the voting aspect as majority will always
          prevail in any poll. Small but significant minority may be
          ignored or overruled with voting. <br>
        </div>
        <div>Any voting in the
          section dealing with Recommendation may negate our work and
          will not produce the desired and acceptable proposal to NTIA,
          again the expectation of  a broad consensus of the communities
          will be wanting in the final report. <br>
        </div>
        <div>It would be helpful
          if the paragraph 4(c)(iv) is rephrased or deleted.  I did not
          provide any language though, but will be willing to do so on
          the 17th if need be,  or any other member can help out here
          and suggest a language to replace it.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        What we need is TRUST+COMPROMISES which will result into
        CONSENSUS. .<br>
        <br>
        BR<br>
        Mary Uduma<br>
        <br>
        <br>
        <br>
        <br>
        <br>
        <br>
        <br>
        <br>
        <br>
        <br>
        <br>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><span><span><span></span></span></span><span></span><span><span lang="FR-BE"><a name="14878d25fd81f057__msoanchor_1" href="https://us-mg6.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.rand=do1cusnv81vp6#_msocom_1" target="_blank"></a><span></span></span></span><span><span></span><a href="https://us-mg6.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.rand=do1cusnv81vp6" target="_blank"><span></span></a></span><span><span><span lang="FR-BE"><a name="14878d25fd81f057__msoanchor_2" href="https://us-mg6.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.rand=do1cusnv81vp6#_msocom_2" target="_blank"></a><span></span></span></span></span><span><span lang="FR-BE"><a name="14878d25fd81f057__msoanchor_3" href="https://us-mg6.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.rand=do1cusnv81vp6#_msocom_3" target="_blank"></a><span></span></span></span></div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div> <br>
          <span></span></div>
        <div><span><br>
          </span></div>
        <div><br>
          <span></span></div>
        <div><span><br>
          </span></div>
        <div><span><br>
          </span></div>
        <div><br>
          <span></span></div>
        <div><span><br>
          </span></div>
        <div><br>
          <br>
        </div>
        <div>
          <div>
            <div>
              <div dir="ltr"> On Saturday, September 13, 2014
                5:41 PM, Joseph Alhadeff
                <a href="mailto:joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com" target="_blank">&lt;joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com&gt;</a> wrote:<br>
              </div>
              <br>
              <br>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <div>I look forward to your considered
                      reply.</div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>Best</div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div>Joe<br>
                      <br>
                      Sent from my iPad</div>
                    <div>
                      <div><br>
                        On Sep 13, 2014, at 9:09 AM, Kavouss Arasteh
                        &lt;<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a>&gt;
                        wrote:<br>
                        <br>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote type="cite">
                        <div>
                          <div dir="ltr">
                            <div>Joe thanks for the time
                              ,efforts and thoughts</div>
                            <div>Aloow me to thniik over and
                              come back to you .Perhaps the combination
                              of both by adding your last to your
                              previous suggestion with&quot; in other words&quot;
                              could be a solution.</div>
                            <div>Kavouss  </div>
                          </div>
                          <div><br>
                            <div>2014-09-13 14:39 GMT+02:00
                              joseph alhadeff <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com</a>&gt;</span>:<br>
                              <blockquote>
                                <div> Kavous:<br>
                                  <br>
                                  I think it depends on the nature of
                                  the concern, that&#39;s why t needs to be
                                  on a case by case basis.  For example,
                                  ICC-Basis as a whole may have wanted
                                  more testing of the proposal, but that
                                  may not be the basis for saying it is
                                  not a proposal that should be
                                  considered.  I think the operational
                                  communities, because of their role,
                                  and if the nature of the objection is
                                  operational, have a different nature
                                  of objection...<br>
                                  <br>
                                  Perhaps a better phrasing might be:<br>
                                  <br>
                                  All stakeholder communities have a
                                  role in the development of the broad
                                  consensus called for; the nature,
                                  scope and breadth of support of
                                  concerns/objections within and across
                                  stakeholder communities will impact
                                  the ability of the ICG to submit a
                                  proposal that meets the requirements
                                  of the NTIA process. Concerns of an
                                  operational nature form one or more
                                  operational community would also
                                  significantly limit the ability of ICG
                                  to submit a proposal that meets the
                                  terms of the  NTIA requirements.<br>
                                  <br>
                                  This would replace the last sentence.<br>
                                  <br>
                                  Its certainly not exact, but as we
                                  have found, precise terms have been
                                  beyond our reach because of the need
                                  to properly apply these principles in
                                  context...<br>
                                  <br>
                                  Happy to see if anyone has better
                                  words than mine...<br>
                                  <br>
                                  Joe <br>
                                  <div>
                                    <div> <br>
                                         <br>
                                      <div>On 9/13/2014 7:24
                                        AM, Kavouss Arasteh wrote:<br>
                                      </div>
                                      <blockquote type="cite">
                                        <div dir="ltr">
                                          <div>Joe, <br>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>Thank you very
                                            much for your attempt to
                                            narrow down the exting
                                            divergence.</div>
                                          <div>In the last
                                            sentence of  added bullet </div>
                                          <div>Quote</div>
                                          <div><b>While
                                              consensus of all
                                              stakeholder communities is
                                              the objective, it seems
                                              clear from the NTIA
                                              requirements, that the
                                              objection of an
                                              operational community
                                              would significantly limit
                                              the ability of the ICG to
                                              submit an acceptable
                                              consensus proposal. &quot;</b></div>
                                          <div><b>Unquote</b></div>
                                          <div>Please kindly
                                            clarify the  situation in
                                            theexample given by Martin 
                                            in which IF all 5 GAC
                                            members or ALAC +ICC-BASIS
                                            object to a case Under
                                            consideration </div>
                                          <div>a) Does that
                                            objection significantly
                                            limit the ability of the ICG
                                            to submit an acceptable
                                            consensus proposal. &quot; </div>
                                          <div>b) To which of
                                            the 3 operational
                                            Communities ( names, numbers
                                            and protocol parameter
                                            )  GAC or ALAC +ICC-BASIS
                                            could be associated .</div>
                                          <div>In general ,your
                                            added text further clarify
                                            the matter .I am comfortable
                                            that you have maintained the
                                            concept of case by case .</div>
                                          <div>Awating your
                                            kind clarification </div>
                                          <div>Kavouss </div>
                                        </div>
                                        <div><br>
                                          <div>2014-09-13 12:32
                                            GMT+02:00 joseph alhadeff <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com</a>&gt;</span>:<br>
                                            <blockquote>
                                              <div> Colleagues:<br>
                                                <br>
                                                In an attempt to find a
                                                middle ground, I have
                                                attempted to address a
                                                number of the issues
                                                through small edits. 
                                                for small minority, I
                                                have tried blending a
                                                number of the concepts
                                                into a new paragraph.
                                                <div><span><span>·<span>        
                                                      </span></span></span><b><span>Determinations

                                                      of consensus do
                                                      not fit into a
                                                      formula and the
                                                      concept of what is
                                                      a small minority
                                                      will need to be
                                                      determined on a
                                                      case-by-case
                                                      basis.<span>  </span>Factors


                                                      of determination
                                                      may include the
                                                      nature and
                                                      seriousness of the
                                                      objection, the
                                                      scope of support
                                                      for the objection
                                                      – whole
                                                      stakeholder
                                                      community(ies) or
                                                      a subset of a or a
                                                      number of
                                                      communiites and
                                                      the attemps that
                                                      have been made to
                                                      resolve those
                                                      concerns/objections.<span>  </span>While
                                                      consensus of all
                                                      stakeholder
                                                      communities is the
                                                      objective, it
                                                      seems clear from
                                                      the NTIA
                                                      requirements, that
                                                      the objection of
                                                      an operational
                                                      community would
                                                      significantly
                                                      limit the ability
                                                      of the ICG to
                                                      submit an
                                                      acceptable
                                                      consensus
                                                      proposal. </span></b></div>
                                                <b><span><br>
                                                  </span></b>
                                                <div><b><span> </span></b></div>
                                                <br>
                                                Other issues include a
                                                clarification of subject
                                                matter decisions (we do
                                                make decisions as to
                                                sufficiency of subject
                                                matter to meet NTIA
                                                requirement or the lack
                                                of consensus on an
                                                issue, that is beyond
                                                assembling, what we
                                                don&#39;t do is redraft the
                                                proposal),  as well as
                                                Martin&#39;s question
                                                related to why
                                                polling...<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Hope these help.<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Joe <br>
                                                <div>
                                                  <div> <br>
                                                    <br>
                                                    <br>
                                                    <div>On
                                                      9/12/2014 8:15 AM,
                                                      Martin Boyle
                                                      wrote:<br>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                                  <div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <div><span>Thank
                                                          you Kavouss. 
                                                          As requested,
                                                          I have made
                                                          specific
                                                          drafting
                                                          suggestions on
                                                          the latest
                                                          draft in drop
                                                          box (although
                                                          there was also
                                                          a suggestion
                                                          from Joe in a
                                                          separate
                                                          drafting
                                                          thread where I
                                                          have a
                                                          slightly
                                                          different line
                                                          from him).  I
                                                          have left the
                                                          comments in
                                                          place as I
                                                          think it is
                                                          important that
                                                          colleagues
                                                          understand why
                                                          I have
                                                          concerns.</span></div>
                                                        <div><span> </span></div>
                                                        <div><span>I
                                                          have not tried
                                                          to change the
                                                          filename:  as
                                                          Alissa pointed
                                                          out in her
                                                          mail, this
                                                          should wait
                                                          for a new
                                                          clean draft to
                                                          avoid causing
                                                          confusion.</span></div>
                                                        <div><span> </span></div>
                                                        <div><span>Cheers</span></div>
                                                        <div><span> </span></div>
                                                        <div><span>Martin</span></div>
                                                        <div><span> </span></div>
                                                        <div><span> </span></div>
                                                        <div><span> </span></div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <div><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US">
                                                          Kavouss
                                                          Arasteh [<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a>]
                                                          <br>
                                                          <b>Sent:</b>
                                                          11 September
                                                          2014 21:34<br>
                                                          <b>To:</b>
                                                          Martin Boyle<br>
                                                          <b>Cc:</b>
                                                          Alissa Cooper;
                                                          Coordination
                                                          Group<br>
                                                          <b>Subject:</b>
                                                          Re:
                                                          [Internal-cg]
                                                          Consensus
                                                          building
                                                          discussion</span></div>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div> </div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div><span lang="EN-US">Martin</span></div>
                                                          <div><span lang="EN-US">I
                                                          agree with
                                                          most of the
                                                          things that
                                                          you said.</span></div>
                                                          <div><span lang="EN-US">However,
                                                          it might be
                                                          useful that
                                                          you suggest a
                                                          revision
                                                          marked text
                                                          and move all
                                                          of your
                                                          comments to
                                                          the covering.</span></div>
                                                          <div><span lang="EN-US">It
                                                          seems that at
                                                          least I have
                                                          sympathy for
                                                          many of your
                                                          thoughts but
                                                          prefer to see
                                                          your text
                                                          possibly not
                                                          coming back to
                                                          square one. No
                                                          one believes
                                                          that anyone
                                                          else should be
                                                          excluded. A
                                                          team work
                                                          means
                                                          everybody
                                                          should be
                                                          given the
                                                          opportunity to
                                                          comment.</span></div>
                                                          <div><span lang="EN-US">What bothers
                                                          me is that
                                                          some people
                                                          want to
                                                          restrict the
                                                          process to
                                                          only three
                                                          operational
                                                          communities
                                                          .While we
                                                          agree that
                                                          their interest
                                                          should be met
                                                          but we want to
                                                          give
                                                          opportunity to
                                                          others </span></div>
                                                          <div><span lang="EN-US">I
                                                          am happy that
                                                          you also agree
                                                          to maintain
                                                          the case by
                                                          case approach.</span></div>
                                                          <div><span lang="EN-US">Waiting
                                                          your editorial
                                                          and other sort
                                                          of amendment
                                                          in a revision
                                                          mark approach
                                                          not
                                                          introducing
                                                          square bracket
                                                          and comments
                                                          in the margin</span></div>
                                                          <div><span lang="EN-US">SUGGEST
                                                          CONCRETE
                                                          AMENDMENTS and
                                                          give the name
                                                          to the file as
                                                          you wish</span></div>
                                                          <div><span lang="EN-US">However,
                                                          I wish to
                                                          reiterate that
                                                          I would have
                                                          serious
                                                          difficulties
                                                          if one focus
                                                          on a
                                                          particular
                                                          case or
                                                          particular
                                                          community or
                                                          the language
                                                          and approach
                                                          used by a
                                                          particular
                                                          community</span></div>
                                                          <div><span lang="EN-US">We
                                                          need to be
                                                          general and
                                                          cover every
                                                          body&#39;s case </span></div>
                                                          <div><span>Regards</span></div>
                                                          <div><span>Kavouss
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <div> </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <br>
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