<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Mary:<br>
<br>
I don't think the intent of the poll is to make a decision but more
to get a sense of the members when it may not be clear from postings
(recall that not all members may have shared opinions and with
multiple drafts of language the current status of opinion may not be
clear) ... Perhaps we could clarify language in that direction to
address your concerns?<br>
<br>
Joe<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/14/2014 6:12 PM, Mary Uduma wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1410732769.34116.YahooMailNeo@web161303.mail.bf1.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Context-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div>
<div class=""><span class="">Dear All, <br>
</span></div>
<div class="yui_3_16_0_6_1410695241540_98"><span class="">I wish
to thank all for the much progress made on the difficult
topic and work of the ICG.</span></div>
<div class="yui_3_16_0_6_1410695241540_98"><br>
<span class=""></span><span class=""></span></div>
<div class="yui_3_16_0_6_1410695241540_98">I have uploaded to
the drop box Draft 12 building on what others have done with
a few comments and minor edits. (See NIRA TECH comments).<br>
</div>
<div class="yui_3_16_0_6_1410695241540_98"><br>
</div>
<div class="yui_3_16_0_6_1410695241540_98">The most difficult
part for me is the voting aspect as majority will always
prevail in any poll. Small but significant minority may be
ignored or overruled with voting. <br>
</div>
<div class="yui_3_16_0_6_1410695241540_98">Any voting in the
section dealing with Recommendation may negate our work and
will not produce the desired and acceptable proposal to NTIA,
again the expectation of a broad consensus of the communities
will be wanting in the final report. <br>
</div>
<div class="yui_3_16_0_6_1410695241540_98">It would be helpful
if the paragraph 4(c)(iv) is rephrased or deleted. I did not
provide any language though, but will be willing to do so on
the 17th if need be, or any other member can help out here
and suggest a language to replace it.</div>
<div class="yui_3_16_0_6_1410695241540_98"><br>
</div>
What we need is TRUST+COMPROMISES which will result into
CONSENSUS. .<br>
<br>
BR<br>
Mary Uduma<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="yui_3_16_0_6_1410695241540_98"><br>
</div>
<div class="yui_3_16_0_6_1410695241540_98"><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class=""><span><span class=""><span></span></span></span><span></span><span
class=""><span class="" lang="FR-BE"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="" id="_anchor_1"
href="https://us-mg6.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.rand=do1cusnv81vp6#_msocom_1"
name="_msoanchor_1"></a><span class=""></span></span></span><span><span
class=""></span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://us-mg6.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.rand=do1cusnv81vp6"
class=""><span class=""></span></a></span><span class=""><span
class=""><span class="" lang="FR-BE"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="" id="_anchor_2"
href="https://us-mg6.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.rand=do1cusnv81vp6#_msocom_2"
name="_msoanchor_2"></a><span class=""></span></span></span></span><span
class=""><span class="" lang="FR-BE"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="" id="_anchor_3"
href="https://us-mg6.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.rand=do1cusnv81vp6#_msocom_3"
name="_msoanchor_3"></a><span class=""></span></span></span></div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div> <br class="">
<span class=""></span></div>
<div><span class=""><br class="">
</span></div>
<div><br class="">
<span class=""></span></div>
<div><span class=""><br class="">
</span></div>
<div><span class=""><br class="">
</span></div>
<div><br class="">
<span class=""></span></div>
<div><span class=""><br class="">
</span></div>
<div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="yahoo_quoted">
<div>
<div>
<div class="" dir="ltr"> On Saturday, September 13, 2014
5:41 PM, Joseph Alhadeff
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com"><joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com></a> wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="">
<div class="" id="yiv8314436090">
<div class="">
<div class="">I look forward to your considered
reply.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Best</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Joe<br class="">
<br class="">
Sent from my iPad</div>
<div class="" id="yiv8314436090yqt57802">
<div class=""><br class="">
On Sep 13, 2014, at 9:09 AM, Kavouss Arasteh
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" class=""
rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com">kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="" type="cite">
<div class="">
<div class="" dir="ltr">
<div class="">Joe thanks for the time
,efforts and thoughts</div>
<div class="">Aloow me to thniik over and
come back to you .Perhaps the combination
of both by adding your last to your
previous suggestion with" in other words"
could be a solution.</div>
<div class="">Kavouss </div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">2014-09-13 14:39 GMT+02:00
joseph alhadeff <span class="" dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" class=""
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com">joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com</a>></span>:<br
class="">
<blockquote class="">
<div class=""> Kavous:<br class="">
<br class="">
I think it depends on the nature of
the concern, that's why t needs to be
on a case by case basis. For example,
ICC-Basis as a whole may have wanted
more testing of the proposal, but that
may not be the basis for saying it is
not a proposal that should be
considered. I think the operational
communities, because of their role,
and if the nature of the objection is
operational, have a different nature
of objection...<br class="">
<br class="">
Perhaps a better phrasing might be:<br
class="">
<br class="">
All stakeholder communities have a
role in the development of the broad
consensus called for; the nature,
scope and breadth of support of
concerns/objections within and across
stakeholder communities will impact
the ability of the ICG to submit a
proposal that meets the requirements
of the NTIA process. Concerns of an
operational nature form one or more
operational community would also
significantly limit the ability of ICG
to submit a proposal that meets the
terms of the NTIA requirements.<br
class="">
<br class="">
This would replace the last sentence.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Its certainly not exact, but as we
have found, precise terms have been
beyond our reach because of the need
to properly apply these principles in
context...<br class="">
<br class="">
Happy to see if anyone has better
words than mine...<br class="">
<br class="">
Joe <br class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""> <br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="">On 9/13/2014 7:24
AM, Kavouss Arasteh wrote:<br
class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="" type="cite">
<div class="" dir="ltr">
<div class="">Joe, <br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">Thank you very
much for your attempt to
narrow down the exting
divergence.</div>
<div class="">In the last
sentence of added bullet </div>
<div class="">Quote</div>
<div class=""><b class="">While
consensus of all
stakeholder communities is
the objective, it seems
clear from the NTIA
requirements, that the
objection of an
operational community
would significantly limit
the ability of the ICG to
submit an acceptable
consensus proposal. "</b></div>
<div class=""><b class="">Unquote</b></div>
<div class="">Please kindly
clarify the situation in
theexample given by Martin
in which IF all 5 GAC
members or ALAC +ICC-BASIS
object to a case Under
consideration </div>
<div class="">a) Does that
objection significantly
limit the ability of the ICG
to submit an acceptable
consensus proposal. " </div>
<div class="">b) To which of
the 3 operational
Communities ( names, numbers
and protocol parameter
) GAC or ALAC +ICC-BASIS
could be associated .</div>
<div class="">In general ,your
added text further clarify
the matter .I am comfortable
that you have maintained the
concept of case by case .</div>
<div class="">Awating your
kind clarification </div>
<div class="">Kavouss </div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">2014-09-13 12:32
GMT+02:00 joseph alhadeff <span
class="" dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com">joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com</a>></span>:<br
class="">
<blockquote class="">
<div class=""> Colleagues:<br
class="">
<br class="">
In an attempt to find a
middle ground, I have
attempted to address a
number of the issues
through small edits.
for small minority, I
have tried blending a
number of the concepts
into a new paragraph.
<div class=""><span
class=""><span
class="">·<span
class="">
</span></span></span><b
class=""><span
class="">Determinations
of consensus do
not fit into a
formula and the
concept of what is
a small minority
will need to be
determined on a
case-by-case
basis.<span
class=""> </span>Factors
of determination
may include the
nature and
seriousness of the
objection, the
scope of support
for the objection
– whole
stakeholder
community(ies) or
a subset of a or a
number of
communiites and
the attemps that
have been made to
resolve those
concerns/objections.<span
class=""> </span>While
consensus of all
stakeholder
communities is the
objective, it
seems clear from
the NTIA
requirements, that
the objection of
an operational
community would
significantly
limit the ability
of the ICG to
submit an
acceptable
consensus
proposal. </span></b></div>
<b class=""><span
class=""><br
class="">
</span></b>
<div class=""><b
class=""><span
class=""> </span></b></div>
<br class="">
Other issues include a
clarification of subject
matter decisions (we do
make decisions as to
sufficiency of subject
matter to meet NTIA
requirement or the lack
of consensus on an
issue, that is beyond
assembling, what we
don't do is redraft the
proposal), as well as
Martin's question
related to why
polling...<br class="">
<br class="">
Hope these help.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Joe <br class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""> <br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="">On
9/12/2014 8:15 AM,
Martin Boyle
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class=""
type="cite">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><span
class="">Thank
you Kavouss.
As requested,
I have made
specific
drafting
suggestions on
the latest
draft in drop
box (although
there was also
a suggestion
from Joe in a
separate
drafting
thread where I
have a
slightly
different line
from him). I
have left the
comments in
place as I
think it is
important that
colleagues
understand why
I have
concerns.</span></div>
<div class=""><span
class=""> </span></div>
<div class=""><span
class="">I
have not tried
to change the
filename: as
Alissa pointed
out in her
mail, this
should wait
for a new
clean draft to
avoid causing
confusion.</span></div>
<div class=""><span
class=""> </span></div>
<div class=""><span
class="">Cheers</span></div>
<div class=""><span
class=""> </span></div>
<div class=""><span
class="">Martin</span></div>
<div class=""><span
class=""> </span></div>
<div class=""><span
class=""> </span></div>
<div class=""><span
class=""> </span></div>
<div class="">
<div class=""><b
class=""><span
class=""
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
class=""
lang="EN-US">
Kavouss
Arasteh [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class=""
rel="nofollow"
shape="rect"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com">mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a>]
<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b>
11 September
2014 21:34<br
class="">
<b class="">To:</b>
Martin Boyle<br
class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b>
Alissa Cooper;
Coordination
Group<br
class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b>
Re:
[Internal-cg]
Consensus
building
discussion</span></div>
</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><span
class=""
lang="EN-US">Martin</span></div>
<div class=""><span
class=""
lang="EN-US">I
agree with
most of the
things that
you said.</span></div>
<div class=""><span
class=""
lang="EN-US">However,
it might be
useful that
you suggest a
revision
marked text
and move all
of your
comments to
the covering.</span></div>
<div class=""><span
class=""
lang="EN-US">It
seems that at
least I have
sympathy for
many of your
thoughts but
prefer to see
your text
possibly not
coming back to
square one. No
one believes
that anyone
else should be
excluded. A
team work
means
everybody
should be
given the
opportunity to
comment.</span></div>
<div class=""><span
class=""
lang="EN-US">What bothers
me is that
some people
want to
restrict the
process to
only three
operational
communities
.While we
agree that
their interest
should be met
but we want to
give
opportunity to
others </span></div>
<div class=""><span
class=""
lang="EN-US">I
am happy that
you also agree
to maintain
the case by
case approach.</span></div>
<div class=""><span
class=""
lang="EN-US">Waiting
your editorial
and other sort
of amendment
in a revision
mark approach
not
introducing
square bracket
and comments
in the margin</span></div>
<div class=""><span
class=""
lang="EN-US">SUGGEST
CONCRETE
AMENDMENTS and
give the name
to the file as
you wish</span></div>
<div class=""><span
class=""
lang="EN-US">However,
I wish to
reiterate that
I would have
serious
difficulties
if one focus
on a
particular
case or
particular
community or
the language
and approach
used by a
particular
community</span></div>
<div class=""><span
class=""
lang="EN-US">We
need to be
general and
cover every
body's case </span></div>
<div class=""><span
class="">Regards</span></div>
<div class=""><span
class="">Kavouss
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class=""> </div>
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<fieldset class=""></fieldset>
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
<span class=""> </span>
<pre class="">_______________________________________________
Internal-cg mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:Internal-cg@icann.org">Internal-cg@icann.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
Internal-cg mailing list<br
class="">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:Internal-cg@icann.org">Internal-cg@icann.org</a><br
class="">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect"
target="_blank"
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="" id="yqt83312">_______________________________________________<br
class="">
Internal-cg mailing list<br class="">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="" shape="rect"
href="mailto:Internal-cg@icann.org">Internal-cg@icann.org</a><br
class="">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="" shape="rect"
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg"
target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg</a><br
class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>