<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Milton</div><div><br></div><div>In your last comment are you suggesting that we would then question that communities decision on how they determine consensus?</div><div><br></div><div>Joe <br><br>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On Jan 14, 2015, at 1:04 PM, Milton L Mueller <<a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu">mueller@syr.edu</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">And I am also suggesting that it is possible – not likely, mind you, but possible – that the problem could be more
than just one of lacking information. Keep in mind that when we receive these proposals or reports, we are not receiving them from “their community” we are receiving them from whatever small subset of that community is in control of the administrative process
of transmitting the report to us and/or in charge of holding the pen. There could be a misunderstanding, inconsistency, or power games played among subsets that would lead to a problem. I know ya’ll don’t like to hear this stuff but we’d be naïve not to recognize
it as a possibility. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">--MM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
<a href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org">internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:internal-cg-bounces@icann.org</a>] <b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of
</span></b>joseph alhadeff<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, January 13, 2015 4:26 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> James M. Bladel<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> <a href="mailto:internal-cg@icann.org">internal-cg@icann.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Internal-cg] Interpretation of 'Consensus' ..<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">No, I am suggesting that if a community determines that consensus in their community is reached in a certain way and they provide no information related
to reaching that consensus, that would be a basis for asking them to provide the information to make the application complete. Only the community can determine what is a community consensus and if it was reached.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On 1/13/2015 1:55 PM, James M. Bladel wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Joe and others:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">I guess Im unclear: if we "catalog" how the various communities determined that they had reached consensus, does that mean we could make the determination
that their proposal failed to do so? If so, then what?<br>
<br>
Just want to be clear, as I see this particular approach as problematic. It would be much cleaner to acknowledge that the communities achieved consensus by their own definition, and note this in our report without endorsement or reservation.<br>
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Thanks, <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">J.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">____________<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">James Bladel<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">GoDaddy<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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On Jan 13, 2015, at 06:00, joseph alhadeff <<a href="mailto:joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com">joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">I think we need to catalog how each community determines consensus as part of a transparent process and assure that they have met the requirements that their
community has accepted, but I don't think it's up to us to impose any concept of uniformity on what consensus is for their process. We do however need to understand what we mean by consensus for the assembled draft; which I believe has been discussed extensively
on this list.<br>
<br>
Joe<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On 1/13/2015 8:14 AM, Manal Ismail wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Dear All ..</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I'm following the CCWG-Accountability</span></font>
<font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">mailing list, as an observer, and have noticed a discussion on 'Consensus' .. The following is an excerpt from one of the emails: </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">"The Chair(s) shall be responsible for designating each position as having one of the following designations:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">a) Full Consensus - a position where no minority disagrees; identified by an absence of objection</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">b) Consensus – a position where
</span></font><font size="2" color="#c00000" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#C00000">a small minority disagrees</span></font><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">,
but most agree"</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">whereas our consensus building document states:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><font size="2" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">"the chair will be responsible for designating each ICG position as having one of the following designations:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2;text-autospace:none">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><font size="3" color="black" face="Symbol"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<font size="1" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></font></span></span></font><!--[endif]--><b><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-weight:bold">Recommendation by consensus
</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">- when
</span></font><font size="2" color="#c00000" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#C00000">no one in the group speaks against</span></font><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
the recommendation in its last readings.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><font size="3" color="black" face="Symbol"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<font size="1" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></font></span></span></font><!--[endif]--><b><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;font-weight:bold">Recommendation
</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">- a position where consensus could not be reached after the matter is sufficiently debated and after the chair and two vice chairs together with
interested parties have made their utmost efforts to find a satisfactory solution for the matter in order to achieve consensus. Those who still object to the recommendation should be invited to document their objections for the final report."</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><font size="2" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><font size="2" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Would such inconsistency cause confusion within the community or is it ok to have different interpretations
in different though related contexts?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><font size="2" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Kind Regards</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><font size="2" color="black" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">--Manal</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<pre><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Internal-cg mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a href="mailto:Internal-cg@icann.org">Internal-cg@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font size="2" color="black" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
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Internal-cg mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Internal-cg@icann.org">Internal-cg@icann.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-cg</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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