[Latingp] AE, OE, and Ligatures

Bill Jouris bill.jouris at insidethestack.com
Mon Feb 11 21:09:12 UTC 2019

And yet, in our previous work, we considered high visual similarity in a significant number of fonts in workmark to be sufficient cause to consider something a variant.  

So are you arguing for changing our criteria?   Bill Jouris
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bill.jouris at insidethestack.com
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      From: "Tan Tanaka, Dennis via Latingp" <latingp at icann.org>
 To: "Michael.Bauland at knipp.de" <Michael.Bauland at knipp.de>; "latingp at icann.org" <latingp at icann.org> 
 Sent: Monday, February 11, 2019 12:54 PM
 Subject: Re: [Latingp] AE, OE, and Ligatures
#yiv1214043876 #yiv1214043876 -- _filtered #yiv1214043876 {font-family:Courier;panose-1:2 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} _filtered #yiv1214043876 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv1214043876 {font-family:DengXian;panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;} _filtered #yiv1214043876 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv1214043876 {panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;} _filtered #yiv1214043876 {font-family:Times;panose-1:2 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}#yiv1214043876 #yiv1214043876 p.yiv1214043876MsoNormal, #yiv1214043876 li.yiv1214043876MsoNormal, #yiv1214043876 div.yiv1214043876MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;}#yiv1214043876 a:link, #yiv1214043876 span.yiv1214043876MsoHyperlink {color:#0563C1;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv1214043876 a:visited, #yiv1214043876 span.yiv1214043876MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:#954F72;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv1214043876 p.yiv1214043876MsoPlainText, #yiv1214043876 li.yiv1214043876MsoPlainText, #yiv1214043876 div.yiv1214043876MsoPlainText {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;}#yiv1214043876 span.yiv1214043876PlainTextChar {font-family:sans-serif;}#yiv1214043876 .yiv1214043876MsoChpDefault {font-family:sans-serif;} _filtered #yiv1214043876 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv1214043876 div.yiv1214043876WordSection1 {}#yiv1214043876 Looking again at the visual evidence, I believe this is not a strong case for variants. But it may be a candidate for visual similarity.    From a visual standpoint I don’t see it as a clear-cut case. Doing a comparison of the code points "æ" "œ" using wordmark.it, the great majority of fonts show them very distinguishable (e.g.Arial: æ œ, Times: æ œ, Courier: æ œ, Calibri: æ œ).    From an orthography viewpoint, I don’t see good support, but of course, this is onlyone data point.    -Dennis    On 2/11/19, 9:16 AM, "Latingp on behalf of Michael Bauland" <latingp-bounces at icann.org on behalf of Michael.Bauland at knipp.de> wrote:        Hi Bill,          thanks for the summary.          I agree with you if purely looking at the visual confusability issue.     However, with ae vs. æ and oe vs. œ the issue is not about visual     sameness, at least that's what the IP argued on our phone call. They     said that in most languages ae and æ have the same meaning and could be     exchanged. I can only talk for German, and there it might be ok to write     ae instead of the ligature but certainly not the other way round. But to     be honest, I personally never used such a word in German.          Therefore the reason to make ae and its ligature variants would be     purely semantic. And then we have a problem: how to decide which variant     relation is stronger? If all are visual, it's (more or less) easy to     decide which visual similarity is stronger, but there's no metric to     compare visual and semantic similarities with each other.          Cheers,          Michael          --      ____________________________________________________________________          |       |          | knipp |            Knipp  Medien und Kommunikation GmbH           -------                    Technologiepark                                      Martin-Schmeisser-Weg 9                                      44227 Dortmund                                      Germany               Dipl.-Informatiker          Fon:    +49 231 9703-0                                      Fax:    +49 231 9703-200          Dr. Michael Bauland         SIP:    Michael.Bauland at knipp.de          Software Development        E-mail: Michael.Bauland at knipp.de                                           Register Court:                                      Amtsgericht Dortmund, HRB 13728                                           Chief Executive Officers:                                      Dietmar Knipp, Elmar Knipp     _______________________________________________     Latingp mailing list     Latingp at icann.org     https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/latingp      _______________________________________________
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