<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1515168556223_8521">OK. But I repeat, what is gained by not automatically rejecting a proposed TLD which differs from an existing one only by that one code point? Is there ANYTHING gained? <br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1515168556223_8543"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1515168556223_8424"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1515168556223_8544">Not to mention, if you are correct, why didn't the IP members in Abu Dhabi just tell the Greek GP that they had got it wrong? Why let them go forward without mentioning it? I'm just not understanding why they would fail to make that point.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1515168556223_8420"> </div><div class="signature" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1515168556223_8384">Bill Jouris<br>Inside Products<br>bill.jouris@insidethestack.com<br>831-659-8360<br>925-855-9512 (direct)</div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1515168556223_8588"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> "Tan Tanaka, Dennis" <dtantanaka@verisign.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Bill Jouris <bill.jouris@insidethestack.com>; Mats Dufberg <mats.dufberg@iis.se>; Michael Bauland <Michael.Bauland@knipp.de> <br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> "latingp@icann.org" <latingp@icann.org><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, January 5, 2018 8:19 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Latingp] Homoglyphs within Latin script<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br><div id="yiv5679148879"><style>#yiv5679148879 #yiv5679148879 --
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal">Bill,</div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal">I think you are misunderstanding our mission and scope. The overarching scope is the Root Zone, this means Top Level Domains. These are not accepted every day, but in a very controlled manner. Processing a TLD request takes weeks, if not
months before it is delegated. Mechanical and manual reviews are part of the process of accepting a new TLD into the Root Zone. The Latin LGR for the Root Zone is just one piece in the process, it’s not a one-stop shop.</div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal"> </div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal">If we were talking about rules for lower levels in the DNS I would agree with you that different rules are needed. But this is not the scope of our task.</div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal"> </div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal">-Dennis</div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal"> </div>
<div class="yiv5679148879yqt2541586107" id="yiv5679148879yqt28092"><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;">
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;">Bill Jouris <bill.jouris@insidethestack.com><br clear="none">
<b>Reply-To: </b>Bill Jouris <bill.jouris@insidethestack.com><br clear="none">
<b>Date: </b>Friday, January 5, 2018 at 11:06 AM<br clear="none">
<b>To: </b>Dennis Tan Tanaka <dtantanaka@verisign.com>, Mats Dufberg <mats.dufberg@iis.se>, Michael Bauland <Michael.Bauland@knipp.de><br clear="none">
<b>Cc: </b>"latingp@icann.org" <latingp@icann.org><br clear="none">
<b>Subject: </b>[EXTERNAL] Re: [Latingp] Homoglyphs within Latin script</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;"> </div>
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<div id="yiv5679148879yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1515110486889_19071">
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">I guess I have a rather different view of the answer to the question: What is the real world issue that we are
trying to address? </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv5679148879yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1515110486889_19114">
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div>
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<div id="yiv5679148879yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1515110486889_19045">
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">I do not think it is: "How do we exactly conform to the narrowest interpretation of the requirements, so as to
allow the maximum number of registrations to start thru the process?" Rather it is: "How do we make the Internet, specifically the process of registering new domain names and of correctly identifying a domain name, work as well as possible for the public?"
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<div id="yiv5679148879yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1515110486889_19352">
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">So anything which we KNOW will always end up rejected, and the schwa and turned e are a dramatic example, ought
to be included among the variants. Otherwise, when someone comes to register a new name, all they get is a delay while their submission gets a manual review.
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">A name which differs only by that one character will ALWAYS get rejected -- and we all know it. So what is gained,
for anyone, by requiring it to go thru a manual process? (OK, perhaps a company registering names can charge for each attempt that gets as far as the manual process. But nobody else has anything that I can see.)</span></div>
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<div id="yiv5679148879yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1515110486889_19044">
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div>
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<div id="yiv5679148879yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1515110486889_19040">
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Bill Jouris<br clear="none">
Inside Products<br clear="none">
bill.jouris@insidethestack.com<br clear="none">
831-659-8360<br clear="none">
925-855-9512 (direct)</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv5679148879yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1515110486889_19483">
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in;background:white;">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> "Tan Tanaka, Dennis via Latingp"
<latingp@icann.org><br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Mats Dufberg <mats.dufberg@iis.se>; Michael Bauland <Michael.Bauland@knipp.de>
<br clear="none">
<b>Cc:</b> "latingp@icann.org" <latingp@icann.org><br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 5, 2018 7:43 AM<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Latingp] Homoglyphs within Latin script</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Mats,</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">The Root Zone LGR is not designed to pick up on those security and stability issues. That would be the concern
of already established processes, such as the Similarity Review or DNS Security and Stability Review of applied-for TLDs.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">-Dennis</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">On 1/5/18, 10:27 AM, "Mats Dufberg" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:mats.dufberg@iis.se" target="_blank" href="mailto:mats.dufberg@iis.se">mats.dufberg@iis.se</a>> wrote:</span></div>
</div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> In lower case, they are equal. My interpretation of "security" is that we must include some variant or contextual
rules that prevent two TLDs only differing on those two code points.</span></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">
</span></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> I do not think we should try to interpret what IP thinks. We should propose a solution we think is correct.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> Mats</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">
</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> ---</span></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> Mats Dufberg</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> DNS Specialist, IIS</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> Mobile: +46 73 065 3899</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://www.iis.se/en/">https://www.iis.se/en/</a></span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> -----Original Message-----</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> From: "Tan Tanaka, Dennis" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:dtantanaka@verisign.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:dtantanaka@verisign.com">dtantanaka@verisign.com</a>></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> Date: Friday 5 January 2018 at 16:13</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> To: Michael Bauland <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Michael.Bauland@knipp.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:Michael.Bauland@knipp.de">Michael.Bauland@knipp.de</a>>, Mats Dufberg
<<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:mats.dufberg@iis.se" target="_blank" href="mailto:mats.dufberg@iis.se">mats.dufberg@iis.se</a>></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> Cc: "<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:latingp@icann.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:latingp@icann.org">latingp@icann.org</a>" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:latingp@icann.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:latingp@icann.org">latingp@icann.org</a>></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> Subject: Re: [Latingp] Homoglyphs within Latin script</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">
</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> Hi Michael,</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">
</span></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> They are not the same character. They look alike in lower case, but are different in upper case (i.e. disunification
by case property). The IP briefly discussed this case of 01DD and 0259 in their feedback to our Principles document and suggested that these two should not be variants. Hence my question about more evidence.</span></div>
</div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">
</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> -Dennis</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">
</span></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> On 1/5/18, 10:10 AM, "Michael Bauland" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Michael.Bauland@knipp.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:Michael.Bauland@knipp.de">Michael.Bauland@knipp.de</a>>
wrote:</span></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">
</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> Hi Dennis, hi Mats,</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">
</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> On 05.01.2018 16:02, Tan Tanaka, Dennis via Latingp wrote:</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> > Thanks Mats.</span></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> >
</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> >
</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> >
</span></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> > A follow up question, is there evidence that these two code points are</span></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> > used interchangeably in the languages the repertoire team analyzed? I</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> > ask because the IP will ask for more evidence of a variant relationship</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> > besides visual appearance. Per the Procedure “Generation Panels should</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> > ignore cases where the relation is based exclusively on aspects of</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> > visual similarity”.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">
</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> I'm not sure we need additional evidence, because in this case it's not</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> mere "visual similarity" but those two are actually the same. And I</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> don't think we have another choice in the case of homoglyphs, but to</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> make them variants. On the contrary, I think we had to argue if we</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> wanted to not make them variants.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">
</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> Michael</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">
</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> 44227 Dortmund</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> Germany</span></div>
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> Dr. Michael Bauland SIP:
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<div class="yiv5679148879MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> Amtsgericht Dortmund, HRB 13728</span></div>
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