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<p class="MsoNormal">Bill,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’m sorry you feel this way, but you paint a reality that is far from the truth. All the documents or correspondence we have exchanged with the IP were reviewed by interested panel members, you among them, and everyone had the chance to
comment or tweak them. By the way, links to those documents are posted below, and the only question variant-related (that I remember) this panel sent to the IP was written by you (“Variant Universe”, 21 Sep 2017). You also had the opportunity to participate
on the call with the IP during the Brussels meeting and ask your own questions with your own words, but you didn’t. The rest of us made the effort to engage with the IP, but you didn’t show up.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We can have difference of opinions, but at the end of the day we will be measured by the Procedure and the guidance this panel sought for and received. We all should be aiming to deliver on this.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dennis<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Bill Jouris <bill.jouris@insidethestack.com><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>Bill Jouris <bill.jouris@insidethestack.com><br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, June 1, 2018 at 1:17 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Dennis Tan Tanaka <dtantanaka@verisign.com><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Latin GP <LatinGP@icann.org>, Meikal Mumin <meikal.mumin@uni-koeln.de>, Mirjana Tasić <mirjana.tasic@rnids.rs><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[EXTERNAL] Re: [Latingp] Variant cross-script analysis worksheets<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">Yet my recollection is rather otherwise. What I recall is:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">1) While several of us on the Variants working group argued for a "relatively liberal" approach, you insisted on an extremely
narrow criteria. Since you were Chair, that's what got recorded.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1527872709535_5819">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">2) Eventually, we submitted questions to the IP. Questions that you (very skillfully!) worded so as to get the response that
you wanted. <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1527872709535_5820">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">3) We had further arguments, based on increased familiarity with previous ICANN documents, on expert opinions from the linguists
among us, and on individual discussions that some of us had the IP members - who expressed rather different views that you got previously.
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">4) Repeat of #2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">5) The current discussion.
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">I share the feeling of déjà vu. Perhaps this time we can achieve something better. Alternatively, you can write the report
on Variants that you so clearly want, and some of the other members of the working group can write a separate report which reflects our views. Give the IP complete packages to review.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">Bill Jouris<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">Inside Products<br>
bill.jouris@insidethestack.com<br>
831-659-8360<br>
925-855-9512 (direct)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> "Tan Tanaka, Dennis via Latingp"
<latingp@icann.org><br>
<b>To:</b> Mirjana Tasić <Mirjana.Tasic@rnids.rs>; Meikal Mumin <meikal.mumin@uni-koeln.de>; Latin GP <LatinGP@icann.org>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 1, 2018 8:15 AM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Latingp] Variant cross-script analysis worksheets</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">All,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">I cannot help but think this is déjà vu. We started out very liberal as to our approach for variants in the Latin script and
this panel submitted its proposal to IP for review in two separate occasions, <a href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9jf1ThZFL4Ga0hhTTZndk1JNVE/view?ths=true" target="_blank">
early</a> and <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RNXPxAsquUJSQ5jRimMYjz3Es_sX-f1JRhi4Cbwdegc/edit#heading=h.d488q8e5wxm4" target="_blank">
mid</a> 2017. The IP provided its feedback in those two opportunities (<a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aMLHw5ahtqmkB07zOJacvRUX-BHjXxXD-u9E9Beb4FQ/edit#heading=h.gjdgxs" target="_blank">March 22</a> and
<a href="https://www.dropbox.com/s/ra8odr5ksd82goz/Principles%20for%20repertoire%20and%20variants%20-%20Feedback%20from%20IP.pdf?dl=0" target="_blank">
October 18</a>) and the variant sub-group adjusted course based on the feedback received. During the Brussels workshop in Jan 2018 (a year later after work started) the same questions were raised again (by newcomers), so we decided to have an impromptu phone
call with the IP to have them explain their guidance. They came back with the same response, and provided examples to that end. This is what led us to rewrite the
<a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IrT_kfildf1SumYUqjkaIkMT-TYx9IRqtuPMV4YvKXU/edit#heading=h.5xs6hwfrrh41" target="_blank">
principles for variant inclusion</a>. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">Dennis<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">Mirjana Tasić <Mirjana.Tasic@rnids.rs><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 2:40 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Meikal Mumin <meikal.mumin@uni-koeln.de>, Dennis Tan Tanaka <dtantanaka@verisign.com><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Latin GP <LatinGP@icann.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[EXTERNAL] Re: [Latingp] Variant cross-script analysis worksheets<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">Dear Colleagues,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">My opinion on this matter is the same as Meikal stated in this mail. We should make our own interpretation of rules and guidelines
and stick to it. In the further discussion with IP we could modify our findings if there is enough reasons for it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">Regards Mirjana<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">Latin GP <latingp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Meikal Mumin <meikal.mumin@uni-koeln.de><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 10:00<br>
<b>To: </b>"Tan Tanaka, Dennis" <dtantanaka@verisign.com><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Latin GP <LatinGP@icann.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Latingp] Variant cross-script analysis worksheets<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">Dear colleuages,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">personally, I think we should conduct our own data-driven analysis based on our own interpretation of the rules and guidelines,
and then ask IP for a review. After all, we are the community and it is our choice - they are only the ones to judge wether we meet the common criteria. That would be in line we the view they expressed, that the GPs are to guide IP.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">Best,<br>
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Meikal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">On 31 May 2018 at 15:14, Tan Tanaka, Dennis <<a href="mailto:dtantanaka@verisign.com" target="_blank">dtantanaka@verisign.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">It would be helpful if we could get the IP to issue an statement on the points you are raising below.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">-Dennis<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">Bill Jouris <<a href="mailto:bill.jouris@insidethestack.com" target="_blank">bill.jouris@insidethestack.com</a>><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>"<a href="mailto:bill.jouris@insidethestack.com" target="_blank">bill.jouris@insidethestack.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:bill.jouris@insidethestack.com" target="_blank">bill.jouris@insidethestack.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, May 30, 2018 at 5:24 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Dennis Tan Tanaka <<a href="mailto:dtantanaka@verisign.com" target="_blank">dtantanaka@verisign.com</a>>, Meikal Mumin <<a href="mailto:meikal.mumin@uni-koeln.de" target="_blank">meikal.mumin@uni-koeln.de</a>>, Michael Bauland <<a href="mailto:Michael.Bauland@knipp.de" target="_blank">Michael.Bauland@knipp.de</a>>,
Sarmad Hussain <<a href="mailto:sarmad.hussain@icann.org" target="_blank">sarmad.hussain@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Latin GP <<a href="mailto:LatinGP@icann.org" target="_blank">LatinGP@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[EXTERNAL] Re: [Latingp] Variant cross-script analysis worksheets<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">And yet, in speaking with members of the IP (at San Juan), on the subject of the Least Astonishment Principle, what they said
was "We are looking to the Generation Panels for guidance." <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">And said further (on the matter of the breve and caron) "When I am typing something that includes one of them, I have to copy
and paste because I can't tell which I am lookIng at." In short, while the two diacritics are clearly not identical, at least with sufficient magnification, as far as he was concerned there was no reason that they could not be classified by us as varients. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">What constitutes "identical in appearance" depends enormously on just how much magnification is assumed. The rationale for assuming
anything larger than 12 point type is not at all obvious. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">Bill<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><a href="https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature" target="_blank">Sent
from Yahoo Mail on Androi</a>d <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 1:08 PM, Tan Tanaka, Dennis<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><<a href="mailto:dtantanaka@verisign.com" target="_blank">dtantanaka@verisign.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">Meikal Mumin <<a href="mailto:meikal.mumin@uni-koeln.de" target="_blank">meikal.mumin@uni-koeln.de</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, May 29, 2018 at 10:14 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Bill Jouris <<a href="mailto:bill.jouris@insidethestack.com" target="_blank">bill.jouris@insidethestack.com</a>>, Dennis Tan Tanaka <<a href="mailto:dtantanaka@verisign.com" target="_blank">dtantanaka@verisign.com</a>>, Michael Bauland <<a href="mailto:Michael.Bauland@knipp.de" target="_blank">Michael.Bauland@knipp.de</a>>,
Sarmad Hussain <<a href="mailto:sarmad.hussain@icann.org" target="_blank">sarmad.hussain@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Latin GP <<a href="mailto:LatinGP@icann.org" target="_blank">LatinGP@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[EXTERNAL] Re: [Latingp] Variant cross-script analysis worksheets<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">My conclusion is that it is more complex than reducing things to "</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">homoglyphs</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">"
but I do not think that (at least linguistically) we have a strong definition of<span class="yiv2813984843m205254556420450350yiv4522631482apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">homoglyphs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">On homoglyphs the Latin GP has received the following guidance from IP, in writing and verbally (during the Brussels workshop)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><i><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">“In the context of the Root Zone, the Procedure is quite clear in that it considers simple similarity of appearance to be
outside the scope of the Root Zone LGR. In admitting exact homoglyphs, the IP has been making the argument that ‘e’ in Latin (U+0065) and ‘е’ in Cyrillic(U+0435) are not just visually indistinguishable, but that their distinct code points effectively represent
a disunification by script property.”</span></i><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> – Email from IP to Latin GP of 18 October 2017 in response to our draft Principles for Inclusion and Exclusion of Code Points in Latin Script
for the Root Zone, and in particular to our Analysis of Variants in the Latin Script for the Root Zone.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><i><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black">“The kinds of variants to be defined in the Root Zone LGR are limited to homoglyphs, which are characters with essentially
identical appearance by design, instead of merely similar appearance.”</span></i><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"> – Integration Panel feedback to Latin GP proposal of 22 March 2017.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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