<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1549919237833_3298"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1549919237833_3309">And yet, in our previous work, we considered high visual similarity <i id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1549919237833_3376">in a significant number of fonts</i> in workmark to be sufficient cause to consider something a variant. <br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1549919237833_3401"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1549919237833_3309"><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1549919237833_3414"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1549919237833_3309">So are you arguing for changing our criteria? </span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1549919237833_3237"> </div><div class="signature" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1549919237833_3308">Bill Jouris<br>Inside Products<br>bill.jouris@insidethestack.com<br>831-659-8360<br>925-855-9512 (direct)</div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1549919237833_3340"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1549919237833_3344" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1549919237833_3343"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1549919237833_3342"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1549919237833_3341"> <font id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1549919237833_3345" size="2" face="Arial"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> "Tan Tanaka, Dennis via Latingp" <latingp@icann.org><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> "Michael.Bauland@knipp.de" <Michael.Bauland@knipp.de>; "latingp@icann.org" <latingp@icann.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, February 11, 2019 12:54 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Latingp] AE, OE, and Ligatures<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1549919237833_3346"><br><div id="yiv1214043876"><style>#yiv1214043876 #yiv1214043876 --
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<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1549919237833_3347">Looking again at the visual evidence, I believe this is not a strong case for variants. But it may be a candidate for visual similarity.</div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText"> </div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1549919237833_3350">From a visual standpoint I don’t see it as a clear-cut case. Doing a comparison of the code points "æ" "œ" using wordmark.it, the great majority of fonts show them very distinguishable (e.g.
<span style="">Arial:</span> <span style="font-size:12.0pt;">
æ œ</span>, <span style="font-family:Times;">Times</span>: <span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Times;">
æ œ</span>, <span style="font-family:Courier;">Courier:</span> <span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Courier;">
æ œ,</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> Calibri: æ œ</span>).</div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1549919237833_3351"> </div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText">From an orthography viewpoint, I don’t see good support, but of course, this is only
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_orthography#Ligatures">one</a> data point.</div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText"> </div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText">-Dennis</div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText"> </div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText">On 2/11/19, 9:16 AM, "Latingp on behalf of Michael Bauland" <latingp-bounces@icann.org on behalf of Michael.Bauland@knipp.de> wrote:</div>
<div class="yiv1214043876yqt4052339801" id="yiv1214043876yqt79378"><div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText"> </div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText"> Hi Bill,</div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText"> </div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText"> thanks for the summary.</div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText"> </div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText"> I agree with you if purely looking at the visual confusability issue.</div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText"> However, with ae vs. æ and oe vs. œ the issue is not about visual</div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText"> sameness, at least that's what the IP argued on our phone call. They</div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText"> said that in most languages ae and æ have the same meaning and could be</div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText"> exchanged. I can only talk for German, and there it might be ok to write</div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText"> ae instead of the ligature but certainly not the other way round. But to</div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText"> be honest, I personally never used such a word in German.</div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText"> </div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText"> Therefore the reason to make ae and its ligature variants would be</div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText"> purely semantic. And then we have a problem: how to decide which variant</div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText"> relation is stronger? If all are visual, it's (more or less) easy to</div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText"> decide which visual similarity is stronger, but there's no metric to</div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText"> compare visual and semantic similarities with each other.</div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText"> </div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText"> Cheers,</div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText"> </div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText"> Michael</div>
<div class="yiv1214043876MsoPlainText"> </div>
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