<html><head></head><body><div class="ydp9206914byahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div><div>I would say that, while we cannot eliminate all confusion, the more we can eliminate the better. </div><div><br></div><div class="ydp9206914bsignature">Bill Jouris<br>Inside Products<br>bill.jouris@insidethestack.com<br>831-659-8360<br>925-855-9512 (direct)</div></div>
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On Wednesday, May 8, 2019, 3:58:48 AM EDT, Mats Dufberg <mats.dufberg@internetstiftelsen.se> wrote:
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="">I think the examples illustrates well that diacritics below are obscured by underlining.</span></p>
<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style=""> </span></p>
<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="">The examples also, by accident, illustrates that the link that we "execute" does not need to be the same as the link text that we see. It obvious if we have a text that says "click *here*",
because we do not expect that we would be sent to <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://here/">http://here/</a>, but also when it does look like a "link" it the real link could be something else.</span></p>
<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style=""> </span></p>
<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="">If you look at Bill's data you will see that under the first example "www.teștexampļe1.mil" there is the link "http://www.exampļe.mil/", not the expected "http://www.teștexampļe1.mil".
It could be claimed that this is definitely out of scope of our work, and that is true, but it still illustrates that even if we eliminate all possible confusable characters there is still other ways to use the domain names to confuse.</span></p>
<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style=""> </span></p>
<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style=""> </span></p>
<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="">Mats</span></p>
<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style=""> </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">---</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;"></span></p>
<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Mats Dufberg</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;"></span></p>
<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">DNS Specialist</span></p>
<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Internetstiftelsen (The Swedish Internet Foundation)</span></p>
<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Mobile: +46 73 065 3899</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;"></span></p>
<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://internetstiftelsen.se/"><span style="color:#954F72;">https://internetstiftelsen.se/</span></a></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;"></span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></p>
<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;">Latingp <latingp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Bill Jouris <bill.jouris@insidethestack.com><br clear="none">
<b>Reply-To: </b>Bill Jouris <bill.jouris@insidethestack.com><br clear="none">
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, 8 May 2019 at 01:55<br clear="none">
<b>To: </b>ICANN Latin GP <latingp@icann.org>, Hazem Hezzah <hhezzah.las@gmail.com><br clear="none">
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Latingp] Diacritics Below</span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Right. But I was referring to the four domain names I had at the beginning of this email thread. (As you say, it's hard to spot those below-the-line diacritics even when you
know to look specifically for them.)</span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Bill Jouris<br clear="none">
Inside Products<br clear="none">
bill.jouris@insidethestack.com<br clear="none">
831-659-8360<br clear="none">
925-855-9512 (direct)</span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 7:11:12 PM EDT, Hazem Hezzah <hhezzah.las@gmail.com> wrote:
</span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">I went through all the letters. There are also cases for a, e, d , i, n, m and o</span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Regards,<br clear="none">
Hazem Hezzah</span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke;"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:bill.jouris@insidethestack.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:bill.jouris@insidethestack.com" title="bill.jouris@insidethestack.com">
Bill Jouris</a> </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke;"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Sent:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> Tuesday, May 07, 2019 11:00 PM</span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke;"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">To:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:latingp@icann.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:latingp@icann.org" title="latingp@icann.org">latingp@icann.org</a> ;
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:hhezzah.las@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:hhezzah.las@gmail.com" title="hhezzah.las@gmail.com">
Hazem Hezzah</a> </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke;"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Subject:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> Re: [Latingp] Diacritics Below</span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Just one other passing note:
</span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">In case you missed it, in addition to the diacritics under the letter L, there were a couple cases of a diacritic under S or T.
</span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Bill Jouris<br clear="none">
Inside Products<br clear="none">
bill.jouris@insidethestack.com<br clear="none">
831-659-8360<br clear="none">
925-855-9512 (direct)</span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 4:41:20 PM EDT, Hazem Hezzah <hhezzah.las@gmail.com> wrote:
</span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Dear all,</span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">I went again through all combinations in the sheet, and could only see that there is a diacritic below because I’m intentionally looking at it. Specially those with
dot, line and macron below.</span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">As I said in the previous call, a normal user would not notice a difference, so my personal opinion would be to consider at least code points having those 3 diacritics
as variants. </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">This decision would of course would limit the use of IDNs.</span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Open for discussion.
</span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Regards,<br clear="none">
Hazem Hezzah</span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke;"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:meikal@mumin.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:meikal@mumin.de" title="meikal@mumin.de">Meikal Mumin</a>
</span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke;"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Sent:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> Monday, May 06, 2019 2:46 PM</span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke;"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">To:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:latingp@icann.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:latingp@icann.org" title="latingp@icann.org">latingp@icann.org</a> ;
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Michael.Bauland@knipp.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:Michael.Bauland@knipp.de" title="Michael.Bauland@knipp.de">
Michael Bauland</a> </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke;"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Subject:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> Re: [Latingp] Diacritics Below</span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Dear colleagues,
</span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">If you can't tell which diacritic is used, that would logically be a case for a variant relationship between all potential options, but not the unmodified basic letter
shape itself. </span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"><br clear="none">
Best,<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Meikal</span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Am 6. Mai 2019, 14:34 +0200 schrieb Michael Bauland <Michael.Bauland@knipp.de>:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</span></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 8.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:3.75pt;margin-right:3.75pt;margin-bottom:3.75pt;">
<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Hi Bill,<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
On 02.05.2019 17:33, Bill Jouris wrote:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</span></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #E67E22 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 8.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:3.75pt;margin-right:3.75pt;margin-bottom:3.75pt;">
<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Dear colleagues,
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I would like to show why I think the various diacritics below (not just<br clear="none">
dot and macron) ought to be accounted variants as well. And I thought<br clear="none">
I'd do it as an email, because that's likely to be the way (along with<br clear="none">
links on web pages) that most people will get links. <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
By way of example, consider one of the original TLDs: .mil <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
_www.teștexampļe1.mil <http://www.xn--exampe-0cb.mil/>_<br clear="none">
_www.testexampḽe2.mil _<br clear="none">
www.testexample3.miḽ <http://www.testexample3.miḽ><br clear="none">
_www.tesțexample4.miļ <http://www.example.xn--mi-gqa/>_<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Can you honestly say that you can tell which cases of .mil have<br clear="none">
diacritcs under the L?</span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</span></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #E67E22 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 8.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:3.75pt;margin-right:3.75pt;margin-bottom:3.75pt;">
<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">And if you think you can, did you notice which<br clear="none">
cases of "testexample" had them? And which diacritic? Because I sure<br clear="none">
can't.</span></p>
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"><br clear="none">
Yes, I can honestly say that I can see something under the l of example<br clear="none">
for the first two cases and something under the l of mil in the last two<br clear="none">
cases (plus some other strange things under s in the first and t in the<br clear="none">
last case.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Which diacritic however, is something I could not tell.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Furthermore in the first and the last case the actual link didn't match<br clear="none">
shown address, but that's a complete different problem, out of our scope.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Best regards,<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Michael<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
--<br clear="none">
____________________________________________________________________<br clear="none">
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Fax: +49 231 9703-200<br clear="none">
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<p class="yiv3478497345MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
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