[Neobrahmigp] IP feedback on the Draft Devanagari LGR

Mon Oct 9 18:08:18 UTC 2017

Found this interesting paper on the web - "Recent Adaptions of the
Devanagari Script for the Tibeto-Burman Languages of Nepal"  by Michael
Noonan,  University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee.

http://crossasia-repository.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/202/1/Recent_Adaptions_of_Devanagari_Script.pdf

And here is what he writes about the Limbu language:
===============
" Limbu has a script of its own, known as the Sirijonga script, which has
been in use since at least the early 19th century. The script has undergone
a number of revisions over the last century and is now used in schools in
Sikkim, where Limbu is taught as a vernacular language subject in
Limbu-speaking areas, and for publications in Limbu printed in Nepal.
Despite the pride many Limbus feel for the Sirijonga script [which,
incidentally, has a Unicode encoding], the Devanagari script is still used
for Limbu due to the fact that Limbus are bilingual in Nepali and achieve
familiarity with Devanagari at state schools which are run exclusively in
the national language. Nonetheless, the Sirijonga script seems to be
gaining ground. In any case, one consequence of the existence of an
alternative script which is reasonably well adapted to the peculiarities of
Limbu is that when the Devanagari script is used for Limbu, its
deficiencies for representing Limbu phonology are evident to writers of the
language. The Unicode now has coding for a glottal stop for the Devanagari
script largely because of pressure from those who wished to use the
Devanagari script for writing Limbu."
===========
Given that we could not find a relevant expert of Devanagari based Limbu
language in Nepal, may be we could use the above information citing the
above mentioned paper.

Regards,
Bal Krishna

---
Bal Krishna Bal,PhD
Assistant Professor
Lead Researcher - Information and Language Processing Research Lab
Department of Computer Science and Engineering
Kathmandu, University
Dhulikhel, Kavre
Nepal
Homepage: http://ku.edu.np/cse/faculty/bal

On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 11:36 PM, Bal Krishna Bal <bal at ku.edu.np> wrote:

> Dear Akshat and All,
> Going through the feedback from IP, I don't see much that can be added
> specifically for Devanagari-based languages spoken in Nepal (Nepali, Newar
> and Tamang). I just wanted to add a few information based on some of the
> comments from the IP feedback  document:
>
> 1. Reference for keyboard layout for Nepali:[Nepali Unicode
> Romanized/Traditional]
> http://ltk.org.np/keyboard_layouts.php
>
> Although some unicode based Newar keyboard layouts are said to exist, they
> don't seem to be publicly available. Tamang does not yet have a separate
> unicode based keyboard layout of its own. So, the above two layouts for
> Nepali can be referenced as the official keyboard layouts for the
> Devanagari based languages in Nepal.
>
> 2. As far as halanta ending labels are concerned, I am putting the excerpt
> from the input document we provided earlier below:
>
> ----------------
>
> In Nepali, there is growing trend to use or drop the “halanta” character
> at the end of word and vice-versa. There are just a limited set of such
> words in the Nepali dictionary.
>
> For example,
>
> परिषद् vs परिषद
>
> संवत् vs संवत
>
> सांसद् vs सांसद
>
> Any word with/without halanta ending should be treated as a “blocked”
> variant.
>
> --------------
>
>
> From the above, we can infer that the halanta ending in labels is not a
> very strict requirement for Nepali. So should there be a consensus to drop
> the case, we are fine with that as well.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Bal Krishna
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Bal Krishna Bal,PhD
> Assistant Professor
> Lead Researcher - Information and Language Processing Research Lab
> Department of Computer Science and Engineering
> Kathmandu, University
> Dhulikhel, Kavre
> Nepal
> Homepage: http://ku.edu.np/cse/faculty/bal
>
> On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 3:23 PM, Sarmad Hussain <sarmad.hussain at icann.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear All,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you for sharing the draft of the Devanagari Root Zone LGR proposal
>> for review by the Integration Panel.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please find attached their feedback containing the following documents:
>>
>>
>>
>>    1. Feedback document from IP
>>    2. Updated XML file, per the feedback
>>    3. Corresponding (more readable) HTML version derived from the XML
>>    file
>>
>>
>>
>> Please let us know if you have any queries about the feedback.  You are
>> requested to consider the feedback as you update the proposal.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Sarmad
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* neobrahmigp-bounces at icann.org [mailto:neobrahmigp-bounces at ic
>> ann.org] *On Behalf Of *Sarmad Hussain
>> *Sent:* Sunday, September 10, 2017 12:12 AM
>> *To:* Akshat Joshi <akshatj at cdac.in>; NeobrahmiGP at icann.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Neobrahmigp] Draft Devanagari LGR
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you Akshat, All.
>>
>>
>>
>> We have forwarded the proposal documents to IP for feedback, along with
>> the queries in the email.
>>
>>
>>
>> We will get back to you with their response soon.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Sarmad
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* neobrahmigp-bounces at icann.org [mailto:neobrahmigp-bounces at ic
>> ann.org <neobrahmigp-bounces at icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Akshat Joshi
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 07, 2017 11:59 PM
>> *To:* NeobrahmiGP at icann.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Neobrahmigp] Draft Devanagari LGR
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear  All,
>>
>> Please find attached, copy of the Devanagari LGR which can be submitted
>> to Integration Panel for their early comments.
>>
>> The Devanagari LGR document is also accompanied with the XML file of the
>> same.
>>
>> Dr. Data you may please take this to the IP with following points:
>>
>> 1. In the XML, framing of the rule "follows-only-C-or-CN" has been done
>> as per our understanding. It may need corrections. Request IP to suggest.
>>
>> 2. Variants:
>>
>>     - As per reciprocity of variants, the variant sequences have been
>> reproduced in the <data> section. It may need corrections. Request IP to
>> suggest.
>>
>>     - The "Halant ending" variants mentioned in section 6.2 in LGR
>> document is a case of conditional and null variant. It was not clear how to
>> put that in XML. It has not been done. Request IP to suggest.
>>
>> 3. Some of the language's data is expected to be received in few days.
>> Once received, that too will be incorporated into this. Those have been
>> marked in red.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Akshat Joshi
>>
>>
>>
>> On 28-08-2017 17:58, Akshat Joshi wrote:
>>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> Please find attached, most recent version of the Devangari LGR with all
>> the suggestions/changes incorporated till date.
>>
>> We are still in process of getting information on the languages which use
>> Devanagari, fall within EGIDS scale 1 to 4 and are yet to be covered by the
>> NBGP. If we can complete that by end of August, we will release the final
>> version of the Devanagari LGR document which can be sent to Integration
>> Panel for their review.
>>
>> I hope this pre-final draft will act as a good basis for tomorrow's call.
>>
>>
>>
>> There are two things that I have marked in red in the document.
>> 1. The name of the accompanying XML file which we will finalize after the
>> finalization of the LGR rules and repertoire. You may please ignore that
>> for now.
>> 2. Some of the languages which are yet to be taken into account
>>
>> Major changes done to the document are:
>> 1. Changes suggested by Dr. Bal regarding name change to Newar and Nepali
>> being official language of Nepal
>> 2. Additional Halanta ending variant has been added (up for discussion)
>> 3. Principles for inclusion of characters have been added in Guiding
>> Principles section (up for discussion)
>> 4. The case of V preceded by an H has been explicitly mentioned under the
>> WLE section (up for discussion)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Akshat Joshi
>>
>> On 04-08-2017 17:57, Akshat Joshi wrote:
>>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> Please find attached, draft LGR document for Devanagari.
>> Request all to give the feedback on the same so that it can be finally
>> modified for sending across to the Integration Panel for comments.
>>
>> There are two things that I have marked in red in the document.
>> 1. The name of the accompanying XML file which we will finalize after the
>> finalization of the LGR rules and repertoire. You may please ignore that
>> for now.
>> 2. Some of the languages which are yet to be taken into account
>>
>> Apart from that, I have taken into consideration the feedback received
>> for Nepali and Newari . Only the Variants have not been taken into account
>> as they conflict with the "No confusingly similar cases as Variants" policy
>> of LGR Procedure. I will separately reply to the proposed variants in
>> Nepali and Newari. However, some such cases pertaining to Santhali have
>> been added to the Variant table. We can discuss the same over the mails. If
>> required, will make further changes if needed.
>>
>> Major changes done to the document are:
>> 1. Akshar formation rules have been simplified and inapplicable cases
>> have been removed e.g. Avagraha and Digits
>> 2. Anusvara and Chandrabindu have been made separate categories as
>> discussed in the Kathmandu F2F meet.
>> 3. Santhali nukta requirements have been incorporated and the WLE section
>> has been modified accordingly.
>> 4. List of languages has been modified as per the EGIDS scale 1 to 4
>> 5. Guiding principles have been added for code-point selection
>> 6. Code-points as required by Sindhi and Kashmiri have been added
>>
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Akshat Joshi
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
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>> --
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>> Regards,
>>
>> Akshat Joshi
>>
>> C-DAC GIST
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Akshat Joshi
>>
>> C-DAC GIST
>>
>>
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