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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/5/2014 5:05 PM, Yoshiro YONEYA
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:20141106100530.4b51343ac49469e8e89ecaf6@jprs.co.jp"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Dear IP members and RootLGR staff,
I have two questions regarding RootLGR.
(1) Why mixing Japanese scripts and alphabet is denied
in RootLGR?
During RoogLGR Workshop on Oct 15th, I asked that if
Japanese rule can consist from jpan(hani+hira+kata) +
alphabet. The answer from Asmus was "No", but I couldn't
get the reason at that time. Would you please give me the
reason why jpan + alphabet (latn) can't mix?</pre>
</blockquote>
Dear Yoneya-san,<br>
<br>
I am discussing the reply to your first question with the<br>
other IP members, so let me get back to you separately on that.<br>
<br>
Just out of interest, can you give me an example of a label <br>
where jpan+latn needs to be mixed?<br>
<br>
On your second question, let me try to clarify the issue.<br>
I hope I will succeed. Feel free to ask any follow-up<br>
questions:<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:20141106100530.4b51343ac49469e8e89ecaf6@jprs.co.jp"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
(2) How does language tag work in RootLGR?
Language LGR specifies its language tag as <language>
element. How does it work in RootLGR? For example,
if CGP defined variants for U+767C and U+73FE as follows:
<language>und-Hani</language>
<char cp="767C" tag="sc:Hani">
<var cp="53D1" type="simp" />
<var cp="5F42" type="blocked" />
<var cp="767C" type="trad" comment="identity" />
<var cp="9AEA" type="blocked" />
<var cp="9AEE" type="blocked" />
</char>
<char cp="73FE" tag="sc:Hani">
<var cp="73B0" type="simp" />
<var cp="73FE" type="trad" comment="identity" />
</char></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
First, this definition of variants is incomplete. An actual LGR
would need to have <char> entries for all the variants, with
their own sets of mappings so that the full set of mappings is both
symmetric and transitive. So let's assume you left these out for
simplicity but that they are, in fact, specified in the LGR for
und-Hani, as required.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:20141106100530.4b51343ac49469e8e89ecaf6@jprs.co.jp"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
and if JGP defined variants for U+7670 and U+73FE as follows:</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
I assume this is a typo for U+767C<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:20141106100530.4b51343ac49469e8e89ecaf6@jprs.co.jp"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
<language>unt-Jpan</language>
<char cp="767C" tag="sc:Jpan">
<var cp="767C" type="alloc" comment="identity" />
<var cp="767A" type="alloc" />
</char>
<char cp="73FE" tag="sc:Jpan">
<var cp="73FE" type="alloc" comment="identity" />
</char></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
First of all, in the integrated LGR, the full set of mappings would
have to be present, that is, there are many mappings of type "block"
(or blocked) that would have to be added because of integration with
the Chinese LGR.<br>
<br>
<pre wrap=""> <language>und-Jpan</language>
<char cp="767C" tag="sc:Jpan">
<var cp="53D1" type="blocked" />
<var cp="5F42" type="blocked" />
<font color="#3333ff"><b> <var cp="767C" type="alloc" comment="identity" /> <!-- Jpan -->
<var cp="767A" type="alloc" /></b></font> <font color="#3333ff"><b><!-- Jpan --></b></font>
<var cp="9AEA" type="blocked" />
<var cp="9AEE" type="blocked" />
</char>
<char cp="73FE" tag="sc:Jpan">
<var cp="73B0" type="blocked" />
<font color="#3333ff"><b> <var cp="73FE" type="alloc" comment="identity" /> </b></font><font color="#3333ff"><b><font color="#3333ff"><b><!-- Jpan --></b></font></b><b>
</b></font> </char></pre>
I have highlighted the Japanese-specific entries.<br>
<br>
However, if <var cp="767A" type="alloc" /> is added, then the
Chinese LGR would have an additional entry: <var cp="767A"
type="blocked" /><br>
<br>
(BTW, in the root zone LGR we will use "blocked" instead of "block",
even though the XML-LGR draft uses "block" - they mean the same
thing).<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:20141106100530.4b51343ac49469e8e89ecaf6@jprs.co.jp"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
How does integrated RootLGR look like? </pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
The integrated LGR contains the additional variant mappings needed
to <br>
a) make the set transivite and symmetric<br>
b) ensure that each "variant cluster" (or set of code points that
are mutually variant) is the same in each script LGR.<br>
<br>
While the clusters must be the same, the type values can be chosen
based on the tag.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:20141106100530.4b51343ac49469e8e89ecaf6@jprs.co.jp"
type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> How does language
tag in RootLGR work to generate variant labels? I assume
that if an applicant applied-for U+767C U+73FF as und-Hani, </pre>
</blockquote>
that appears to be a type for U+767C U+73FE<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:20141106100530.4b51343ac49469e8e89ecaf6@jprs.co.jp"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
allocatable variant labels are U+767C U+73FE and U+53D1 U+73B0,
and blocked variant labels are others. </pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
To achieve this, the following <action> elements must be
defined<br>
in the XML<span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><br>
<o:p></o:p></span>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd"><span
style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> <action
disp="blocked" any-variant="blocked" /><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd"><span
style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> <action
disp="allocatable" only-variants="simp both" /><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd"><span
style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> <action
disp="allocatable" only-variants="trad both" /><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd"><span
style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> <action
disp="blocked" any-variant="simp trad" /><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd"><span
style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> <action
disp="allocatable" comment="catch-all" /><o:p></o:p></span></p>
The top-most action that matches the condition on variant mappings
is the one that will set the disposition.<br>
<br>
Any variant label being created from any "blocked" variant will be
blocked in the first action.<br>
<br>
Any variant label being created from only "simp" (or "both" which we
don't have in the example) will be set to allocatable in the second
action. (U+53D1 U+73B0)<br>
<br>
Same for "trad" in the third action (U+767C U+73FE)<br>
<br>
The fourth action would block mixed labels such as U+767C U+73B0 and
U+53D1 U+73FE.<br>
<br>
And finally the last action exists to allow allocatable labels that
do not use reflexive (identity) mappings - we don't have them in
this example (but see below).<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:20141106100530.4b51343ac49469e8e89ecaf6@jprs.co.jp"
type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> On the other hand,
I assume that if an applicant applied-for U+767C U+73FF as </pre>
</blockquote>
that appears to be a type for U+767C U+73FE again<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:20141106100530.4b51343ac49469e8e89ecaf6@jprs.co.jp"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
und-Jpan, allocatable variant labels are U+767C U+73FE and
U+767A U+73FE, and blocked variant labels are others.</pre>
</blockquote>
Correct.<br>
<br>
In fact, it is not necessary for the Japanese example to use
reflexive mappings. As long as there is only two types meaning
"blocked" and "allocatable", these two <action><br>
statements are sufficient:<br>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd"><span
style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> <action
disp="blocked" any-variant="blocked" /><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd"><span
style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> <action
disp="allocatable" comment="catch-all" /></span></p>
(The other three actions could be defined, but wouldn't get
triggered).<br>
<br>
So the example would simplify to:<br>
<br>
<pre wrap=""> <language>und-Jpan</language>
<char cp="767C" tag="sc:Jpan">
<var cp="53D1" type="blocked" />
<var cp="5F42" type="blocked" />
<font color="#3333ff"><b> <var cp="767A" type="alloc" /></b></font> <font color="#3333ff"><b><!-- Jpan --></b></font>
<var cp="9AEA" type="blocked" />
<var cp="9AEE" type="blocked" />
</char>
<char cp="73FE" tag="sc:Jpan">
<var cp="73B0" type="blocked" />
</char></pre>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:20141106100530.4b51343ac49469e8e89ecaf6@jprs.co.jp"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
I read draft-davies-idntables-08, but I couldn't understand
how to merge two LGRs into one LGR, and how to select variants
depend on language tag.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
If you assume that it is possible to create a single XML file for
the *integrated* LGR, it will be hard to understand. That is because
it is indeed not possible to create such a single, integrated file,
because in the XML the selection by <language> tag is a
per-file issue.<br>
<br>
Instead, what the IP will produce is a set of files that are
guaranteed to produce consistent results.<br>
<br>
Each application will be processed against a single file (selected
by <language> tag, such as "und-Jpan"). The files will contain
the full variant clusters so that the full permutation of variant
labels can be generated. This full set of permuted labels can then
be checked against all existing registrations (no matter whether
they were registered under "und-Jpan" or under "und-Hani"). If no
conflicts are found, the application can proceed to the next stage
and the subset of allocatable variants will be determined.<br>
<br>
If a label U+767A U+73FE has been allocated (which is possible under
und-Jpan) then under und-Hani
it is not possible to apply for U+767C U+73FE or U+53D1 U+73B0.<br>
<br>
By ensuring that all files in the LGR are mutually consistent, one
only needs a single file to process the application.<br>
<br>
The consistent files need the additional "blocked" variant mappings,
but they also need entries for the target code points of these
mappings. Such code points are not part of the repertoire. They are
identified with special reflexive variant mappings. For example,
assume 53D1 as simplified ideograph is not part of the Japanese
repertoire. <br>
<br>
Because of consistency, the LGR for und-Jpan would need this entry<br>
<br>
<language>und-Jpan</language><br>
<char cp="53D1" ><br>
<var cp="53D1" type="out-of-repertoire-var"
comment="identity" /><br>
<var cp="767C" type="blocked"<br>
<var cp="5F42" type="blocked"<br>
.....<br>
</char><br>
<br>
The MSR already contains a default action<br>
<br>
<action disposition="invalid"
any-variant="out-of-repertoire-var" comment="any variant label with
a code point out of repertoire is invalid"/><br>
<br>
which would eliminate any original label containing U+53D1, so that
one could not apply for U+53D1 U+73FE, for example, in the
"und-Jpan" case.<br>
<br>
Anyway, this is the technical meat of creating the set of mutually
consistent files for integration.<br>
<br>
A./<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:20141106100530.4b51343ac49469e8e89ecaf6@jprs.co.jp"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
Regards,
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
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